Vanhu Kingdoms - PLAYTESTERS WELCOME

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    • Quelques questions supplementaires:
      L armée à un but d'existence uniquement pour se faire plaisir en tant qu armée alternative?ou comptez vous monter sa pour qu elle devienne une armée à part entière tel que les nains, elfes, chaos....?
      Sinan concernant le LA:
      Tribal masks 0-2 (25 pts) aucun intérêt d en premettre 2 si le sort héréditaire n est pas replicable.
      Niveau règles les armes sont compliquées. En terme de règle on choisit une armée au début du corps à corps et on la garde toute la durée du corps à corps. Exception faite à ceux qui ont maître d armé et qui peuvent changer d arme à chaque round de corps à corps.
      Si je comprend bien en terme de fluff assegai serait une sortes armée jetté en charge( ce qui donne la touche d impact) puis ils basculent sur les short Spears.
      Mais du coup à chaque charge on bénéficie de la touche d impact ? Où est ce usage unique?
      Si ce n'est pas usage unique il serait mieux de faire ainsi:
      Assegai: close combat weapons.
      Count as a hand weapon in Every respect. The wielder gains +1armour pénétration.
      Dévastatrice charge (impact hits 1, charges Unit différents -1 Agi).
      Unmarried m'en: lightning troop et scoring. Deux choses que l on ne voit plus ensemble. En général les volants, lightning troop... Ne sont plus scoring.
      Je pense se aussi qu il faudrait des limites à chaque entrée de troop. Imaginons une armée dont le général est zèbre. Il donne feigned fight à portée. On prend 10 pack d unmarried m'en et double fuitesur chaque régiment. Du coup l adversaire ne verra jamais de corps à corps. En plus ils sont scoring. Donc pourront se rallier et aller tenir un objectif.
      Cete of honey badgers :multi wounds are halved ( rounded UP out down ?)

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Kraichti ().

    • Translation of the above - and replies.

      1. OK, Ostriches are hard to kill at a distance, yes and no. The elves with their super AIM have a way to hit not too badly. The endurance compensating the difficulty to hit, the number of injuries will be significant. After, regeneration, to be seen how effective it will be. But in my opinion, compared to all that the AB offers, I do not think that it will be often seen on a game battlefield.
      Oops, I forgot to talk about magic blasts too, I think ostriches will not like. And pyromancy even less.
      - All fair points. Actually, I thought that Ostriches would more be taken as mounts than as unit. Some models exist for that.
      About the unit, how credible would be a unit of Ostriches in the battlefield? :D This is why I gave them little offensive capability, but the legend of the ostrich burying its head was too good to pass up, so I used it to make them more a passive, resistant element, which would create kind of additional terrain, used as screen or speed bumper by the player to help control the battlefield. The goal is just to create obstacles for the opponent, hard to kill at distance, easy to kill in contact but that slows him down.
      Remember, they have magic resistance, hard target, regen plus buried head.

      Trying to make them more appealling in their role, let's raise their Res to 3, and make them Fearless while they bury their head, and
      lower their cost to 75 pts for 5. Also, let's remove skirmisher, so that they may obscure LOS.
      Thoughts?


      Some additional questions:
      The army book purpose of existence, is it only to please ourselves as an alternative army, or do you intend to elaborate it so that it becomes an army in its own right such as dwarves, elves, chaos ...?
      It is Homebrew. No chance ever to become official for tournaments, unless some local tournament wishes to use exotic setting for a change.
      The target players are players at home, who like themed games, variety, customization of models... but not competition.
      Still, the power level should still be compatible with the usual armies, so as not to discourage players to play with this AB, but their opponents need not to be discouraged either.


      Otherwise concerning the AB:
      Tribal masks 0-2 (25 pts) no interest in allowing 2 if the hereditary spell is not replicable.
      ?( The Hereditary Spell is never replicable, except for VC. No reason for making it replicable here.
      Still, I believed it would be interesting to enhance it for multiple wise-men, as you may select which one will cast it.
      But the real reason to allow 0-2 was for modelling purpose - let's make them 0-3 :P


      Assegai: Rulewise, the weapons are complicated. In term of rules, one chooses a weapon at the beginning of the melee and keeps it for all the duration of the close combat. Except for those who have an army master and can change weapons with each close combat round.
      If I understand well in terms of fluff, assegai would be a kind of thrown weapon in charge (which gives the impact hits) yes, exactly, then they switch on the short spears. No, they switch to any other weapon they may have.
      But then at each charge, we benefit from the impact hit? Or is this unique use? Each charge.
      If it is not unique use it would be better to do like:
      Assegai: close combat weapons.
      Count as a hand weapon in every respect. :thumbup:
      The wielder gains + 1 armour penetration. ?( Where does this come from?
      Devastating charge (impact hits 1, charged Unit suffers -1 Agi). :thumbup:
      Thanks, will modify the AB accordingly.

      Unmarried men: light troop and scoring. Two things we do not see together anymore. In general flying, light troops ... are no longer scoring.
      :oops: Unless someone protests, I will remove scoring and lower the cost by 10 pts. This would reflect correctly their teenager nature.

      I also think there should be limits to each troop entry. Imagine an army whose general is zebra. He gives feigned fight in range. We take 10 pack of unmarried men and double flee on each regiment. So the opponent will never see a melee. In addition they are scoring. So can rally and go hold an objective.
      I don't like limits but I accept them. Please indicate what to limit, and to which extent.

      Cete of honey badgers: multiwounds are halved (rounded UP or down?) :oops: The simplest would be to reduce multi-wounds to 1 wound max.


      @Kraichti : tu comprends suffisamment bien l'anglais, ou il faut que je traduise les réponses ?

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    • The assegai being a Close combat weapon is strange.
      Because then we switch to the other Close combat weapon, the Short Spear (« iklwa »), which also counts as a Hand weapon while giving +1 AP.
      I'd really much rather the assegai to be a Thrown Weapon, that can be shot while making a Charge move.


      @Calisson what about my proposal for Vultures ?

      I agree of course that Vultures don't really make a good mount… maybe for this line only we should create a separate large bipedal-bird entry ?
      I still think Vultures fit well with the Bennu Bird since they are both flyers, one is a symbol of death, the other of life (some philosophy here).
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • Oui merci calisson j arrive à suivre.
      Tu me demandais d ou je sors le AP 1
      En fait en charge ils prennent l assegai puis switchent avec la short spear. Compliqué en terme de règle le changement d arme. Pour sa je proposait la fusion de profil. Comme sa leur arme fait tout et on leur supprime la short spear.
      Les autres du coup auraient :remplacer short spear par assegai. ( pour ceux éligibles)
      Annuler le multi pv sur les badgers les rendraient très resistant. En général c est multi wound halved rounded down with a mini of 1. Mais étant sur du LA plaisir sa me choquerai pas et sa donnerai une raison de plus de les embauchers. ( je ne sais pas si vous en avez parler mais en terme de figurine mantic (king of war) propose des cavaliers sur blaireaux. (Suffit de pas coller le cavalier)
      Pour les autruches oui pourquoi pas des vautours à la place? Sa colle toujours à l armée. Mais sortez une règle potable :) en fait objet de sort quel qu il soit signifie gardez 2 dés pour le lancer. Et en général la phase de magie est déjà assez gourmande en dés.
      Concernant les limitations 0-3 pour les runners c est largement assez bien et 0-4 unmarried aussi. Le reste se limitera tout seul par les coûts en points.
      À mon sens je proposerai les unmarried men avec javelots. Et limitation 0-4. On y trouverai un réel intérêt de jeux

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Kraichti ().

    • A le ratel ^^
      Mais oui suis je bête!! Après en adaptant la peinture sa peux peut-être passer? Il paraît que ça est un animal hyper aggressif et très coriace ! Peu être un profil plus adapté pourrai y être rèflechit?
      Et le LA pourrai sûrement accueillir des bêtes en socles 40/40 et 50/50 non?
      Ou vous restez dans le traditionnel non médiéval fantastique.auquel cas il faut une adaptation taille réelle socle.
    • Ghiznuk wrote:

      @Calisson what about my proposal for Vultures ?

      Display Spoiler
      [/spoiler=my proposal for Vultures] – Flying, Skirmishers
      – Fortitude as Ostriches
      – « Raising » special power, similar to Ostriches by feeding on Carrion ; either we assume that there are carrion everywhere on the battlefield (so the power is the same as that of Ostriches), or we give them some Raising rule that activates only when after a combat (like Ghouls used to have at some point)
      – Have many small perforating attacks
      – Additionally or by removing another rule (Fortitude ?), they give an aura that helps Caster cast spells (I don't think we already have such unit, but I might be mistaken)


      I agree of course that Vultures don't really make a good mount… maybe for this line only we should create a separate large bipedal-bird entry ?
      I still think Vultures fit well with the Bennu Bird since they are both flyers, one is a symbol of death, the other of life (some philosophy here).
      Not a good mount, all the more that Flying is to be avoided, see Vanhu Kingdoms - PLAYTESTERS WELCOME
      Additionally, models are not as appealling.
      Also, how is the suggested rule adequate to represent vultures?
      Not convinced at the moment, I like better Ostriches (in case it mattered, as I will not play that AB anyhow :bag: ).

      -=-=-

      Kraichti wrote:

      AP 1 comes from switching from Assgai to Short Spear. Simplest would be to merge.
      :thumbup: Let's merge them, and make all those who have access to either one get access to the merged one.



      Cancellation of multiple wounds on Badgers would make them very resistant. Usually it is half, rounded down mini 1. But for a fancy AB I would not be against and it would make another reason to take them. Don't know if you mentioned, but model-wise, Mantic has mouted badgers, you just need not to stick the rider.
      :thumbup: Let's keep them as they are, with their 2 wounds, immune to multi-wounds.

      For Ostrich, yes, why not Vultures? Fit the army, but find suitable rule. :D See above.


      Limit 0-3 runners and 0-4 unmarried, everything else is limited by points. :thumbup:
      I suggest unmarried men with thrown weapons, limited to 0-4. Great gamewise. :warn: The Vanhu technique for thrown weapons is the Assagai, let's not introduce another technique.
      -=-=-

      Here is the updated document.
      Word: drive.google.com/open?id=1Etq28ooE-P-B9QFKOk-kVY1jtaKa-3Bo
      Pdf: drive.google.com/open?id=1LsM5R_2SeY7eZ7bQHKrv9l46e0hM7Rj4

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    • More comments in French from Kraichti

      Kraichti wrote:

      Alors en bêtes :
      Je pense tu as mis cher aux cheetah. 180 pts et 40pts model c est bien.
      Les phacochères. A mon sens un peu nan. Une endu trop faible et une petite force.
      J y verrai deux version possible des socles plutôt 25/25 ou 25/50
      2 attaque f4 endu 4 ( les Stats un peux moyenne d un sanglier Warhammer. Charge dévastatrice (+ 1f + 1 AP) la aussi une base sanglier.
      Coût 140 pas les 5 et 20 pas model en plus.
      Deuxième version un model plus costaud genre socle 40/40 50/50
      Un poil plus costaud et plus cher ( une sorte de cousin razorgors ).

      Hypo light troop? Je ne m y connais pas assez mais je les vois plutôt rapide en avant mais pas dans la manœuvre. Donc pkoi ne pas supprimer light troop et leur mettre une règle de réformation comme si ils avaient un musicien ( cf règle handlers des vermin swarm)

      Autruches les seuls bêtes qui n ont pas light troop. Oubli?
      Alors tu aura compris que je n en suis pas fan :)
      Plusieurs alternatives possibles :)
      Du vautour 180 pts les 3, 30pts/ model en + max 10 models. Socle 40x40
      Adv 2 march 4
      Vol 8 et vol en marc 16
      Hp 2 def 3 res 4 arm 0
      Att 3 off 3 str 4 AP 1 agi 3
      Règle Spé fly (8',16"), fortitude 6+ et ne peuvent jamais poursuivre un ennemi qui fuit ou faire de charge irrésistible,mais à la place si ils détruisent une unité en CAC ou font fuir une unité restent sur place pour dévorer les cadavres et du coup raise 2d3 figurines.

      Le giant snake. Je ne connais pas tous les serpents qui traînent dans la savane. Mais la règle enfouis va bien tel un serpent tapis dans son repere et qui fond sur sa proie.
      Si je compare en points à 200 pts en retard j ai 2 fig soit 6 attaques f5 emploi et 4 attaques f5 coup fatal 6pv et save a 3+ met 7',14"

      Donc ton serpent peux aisément être ou descendu en point ou passer à 4 attaques et mvt 6', 10"

      Voilà le reste reste à mon avis globalement raisonnable. À voir le tout finis ce qui semblera le plus useless.
      In English - with my replies

      About animals:

      Cheetah too expensive. 180 pts and 40pts per model is fair. :thumbup: OK for me, the previous increase was too much

      Warthogs. In my opinion a little meh. Res too weak and too small a strength.
      I see two possible versions of the bases, 25/25 or 25/50.
      2 attack Str4 Res 4 (average stats for a Warhammer boar. Devastating Charge (+ 1f + 1 AP) also like a wild boar.
      Cost 140 pts for 5 and 20 pts per model in addition. :thumbup: OK for me
      Second version a model beefier, like base 40/40 or 50/50 :thumbdown: Too complex to get two version of the same unit with such differences.
      A tad stronger and more expensive (a kind of razorgors cousin).

      Hippo light troop? I do not know them enough but I see them rather going fast forward but not in the maneuver. So why not remove light troop and put a rule of reformation as if they had a musician (cf rule handlers of vermin swarm) :) The reason for all animals to have light troops is that they are not trained to march in ranks and files.

      Ostriches the only beasts that do not have light troop. Oversight? :oops: I deleted it for the last change, in order to give them a tactical role. But it does not make sense, indeed, to have Ostriches aligned in ranks and files. They will get light troops again.
      Then you will understand that I am not a fan of Ostriches. :)
      Several possible alternatives :)
      Vulture 180 pts 3, 30pts / [lexicon]model [/ lexicon] in + max 10 models. Base 40x40
      Adv 2 March 4, Flight 8 /16
      Hp 2 def 3 res 4 arm 0
      Att 3 off 3 str 4 AP 1 act 3
      Special Rule fly (8 ', 16 "), fortitude 6+ and can never pursue a fleeing enemy or make irresistible charge, but instead if they destroy a unit in CAC or flee a unit remain on the spot to devour the corpses and blow raise 2d3 figurines.
      :no: 1) the army is super-fast and agile, does not need flyers,
      2) especially I don't want Vultures as character mounts, flyers are strong weakness for this army
      2) Vultures being not convenient for mounts, I wish not to create a double entry, Vultures for troop, Ostriches for mounts
      3) where are Vulture models?
      4) How does the fluff could support raising new models on the spot?
      5) Isn't the rule of Ostriches digging their head in the sand hilarious? Agree, their own special rule could be improved, it makes better sense to give them a greater Aegis for attacks at distance while they dig their head.


      The giant snake. I do not know all the snakes lying around in the savannah. But the buried rule goes like a snake carpeted in its mark and melting on its prey. :yes:
      If I compare in points to 200 pts (???) I have 2 fig is 6 attacks Str5 and 4 attacks Str5 Lethal Strike 6HP and save a 3+, speed 7 ', 14 "
      So your snake can easily be lowered in pts or upgraded to 4 attacks and mvt 6 ', 10 " :thumbup: What about 170 pts, no other change?

      That's the rest remains in my opinion globally reasonable. To see everything finished what will seem most useless (???).


      Updated (with Regeneration changed to Fortitude ;) :(
      Word: drive.google.com/open?id=11EhH-Y_kLl2i8tu_SjlxLjPUsQcxO_4J
      Pdf: drive.google.com/open?id=17pu0lvfgZ3dqY6Azaq9qCojjklJV1DdT

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    • More...
      in French

      Kraichti wrote:

      Alors les derniers retours:
      Ritual scarification: en terme de règle je pense il faudrait préciser aegis 6+ et si le porteur a déjà une aegis elle est amelioree de +1 (max 4+)
      Bennu bird idem précision de Fortitude 6+ à ttes les unités à 12 pas où Fortitude +1 à ceux qui en ont déjà une.(max 3+)
      Le were Man peux rejoindre des spirit guards ( et non spirit Walker)
      Les warthog vraiment ont besoin de 2 attaque.
      (En comparaison à 27 pts les ogre ont des crocodiles de sabre à 3 attaque F4 endu 4 cc4 init 4)
      Donc 2 attaque me semble top.
      Les autruches aussi faible soient elles je propose ceci. Tu les garde tel quel. Mais en plus de leur tête enfuit dans le sable il faudrait que l'on ne puisse les charger, cibler au tir et à la magie. Et qu on les ignore en phase de mouvement mais qu on ne puisse finir un mouvement sur elles ou à moins d un pas d elle. ( En gros elle se mettent tête dans le sable et se fondent dans le dcors jusqu'à ce que le danger passe)
      Le serpent est tellement lent !
      Voilà mon point de vu! Bennu bird et triple bornes sont mes choix préférés!
      Le grand rhino blanc aussi.deja pour son endurance et ses pvmais aussi pour sa taille qui permet de cacher le reste derrière.
      Ainsi je suggère le serpent a150 pts. Car ducoup on pourrai le jouer en complément d autres animaux avec les 20% de living légende.
      Lui une girafe un lion un bennu par exemple.
      Oui un sabretooth un lion un triple horned.
      Bref à 150 tu règle le soucis :)
      Voilà après sa je pense le LA est prêt à être mis dans le circuit de jeux

      Kraichti wrote:

      Nan un dernier détail je pense les hyppopotame si ils sont déployé dans une rivière devraient le faire à la étape des éclaireurs. Si tu choisi de tout poser en premier, selon le terrain tu les met en rivière juste devant la zone de déploiement ennemi. Et le pauvre perd 6 pas dans sa zone.
      Après il peux choisir aussi le terrain en conséquences ^^ d'oncle changement n est pas nécessaire. Mais une proposition. :)

      Kraichti wrote:

      Je rajouterai au were Man count as standard beast for thé purposeof distribution hits lorsqu ils rejoins une unité de bêtes

      More changes made

      So the latest returns:

      Ritual scarification: in term of rule, I think it would be necessary to specify Aegis 6+ and if the wearer already has an aegis it is improved of +1 (max 4+) :warn: Just apply the rules 14.F Special Saves, page 66.

      Bennu bird same thing, Fortitude 6+ at all units at 12 steps or Fortitude +1 at those who already have one. (Max 3+) :warn: Same.

      The were Man can join spirit guards (and not spirit Walker) :oops: :thumbup:

      The warthog really needs 2 attack. (In comparison to 27 pts the ogre have 3 F4 attack saber crocodiles endued 4 cc4 init 4)
      So 2 attack seems to me top. At unchanged cost, then?

      Ostriches as weak as they are I propose this. You keep them as is. But in addition to their head leaking into the sand it would be necessary that we can not charge them, target shooting and magic. And that we ignore them in phase of movement but that we can not finish a movement on them or at least a step away from it. (Basically they put their head in the sand and blend in the decor until the danger passes) :thumbup: :/ Good idea to make them become like terrain, however, the opponent should not be deprived of any way to remove them.
      What I will do for the moment:
      Buried Head: Universal Rule.
      During the Movement Phase, if the Unit was allowed to do an Advance, a March or a Reform, it may renounce it and instead, it buries the heads in the sand until the next friendly player turn.
      In that case, while it lasts, its models become Fearless, Insignificant, and get Magic Resistance (+1). The unit may not be charged, and is treated like Impassable Terrain; the unit may not control any objective. In the next turn, the unit cannot declare a charge.
      Mounts may not bury their heads.


      - Note: raising models removed, not in fluff),
      - Note, for shooting, they already get hard target.


      The snake is so slow! That's my point of view! || :thumbup: Increased Adv to 4, Mar 6. Man, it's a snake!

      Bennu bird and triple horns are my favorite choices! The big white rhino also has its Res and its HP but also its size that allows to hide the rest behind.

      So I suggest the snake a150 pts. Because then we can play it in addition to other animals with the 20% of living legend: add a giraffe, a lion, a bennu for example. Or a sabretooth a lion a triple horned. In short to 150 you solve the problem :) OK

      That's it, after this I think the AB is ready to be put in the gaming circuit.

      Nah, a last detail I think the hippopotamus, if they are deployed in a river, they should do it at the scouts stage. If you choosed to put everything first, according to the terrain, you would put them in the river right in front of the enemy deployment zone. And the poor opponent loses 6 " in his zone.
      Afterthought, it can also display the terrain in consequence ^^ therefore change is not necessary. But a proposal. :)
      :/ Problem if we did that, the opponent could block all rivers with his own deployment, and the rule would become useless.
      I would rather keep the rule as is.


      I'll add to Were Man to count as standard beast for the purpose of distribution hits when they join a unit of beasts. ?( :facepalm: :thumbup: It took me some time to understand why. I will make him become "Beast" type when he joins a unit of beasts.

      Word: drive.google.com/open?id=1zDuQWQc5QND-GF1GVsC5bT0wuvhBAxhz
      Pdf: drive.google.com/open?id=1lptD0UNDrr0E0IFKcLbTDObcRnS8hQT_

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