State of 9th age in the US

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    • Since we're naming YouTube channels, here are some relative newcomers putting out very good content:

      Salazarov out of Louisiana
      m.youtube.com/channel/UC6z1HnWBqopO2WKpjrqHzmw

      Obsidian Anubis from the west coast region:
      m.youtube.com/channel/UCdNnFiRN31X9_SrCPUnB7Ew

      And our very own @Grimbold Blackhammer
      has tried his hand at it. Hopefully will see him continue:
      m.youtube.com/channel/UCgUYpLdlI8Om9QZo-HjG4qA
      "An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of men comes crashing down! But it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you *stand, Men of the West!*"

      -Aragorn, son of Arathorn

      Post by Baranovich ().

      This post was deleted by the author themselves ().
    • Baranovich wrote:

      ...just one additional thought. The thing that really bugs me about all the negative press about 9th Age on Youtube is that there was an immediate association with the Adepticon cancellation and the game's "failure" or "fall".

      Ohhhh yes that's very dramatic and it makes for a very compelling headline for those Youtube channels seeking maximum views hits on their content. Any time you make a video about gaming that has the words failure or fall in it it all sounds very epic. Unfortunately that's the same mentality the media has in making the headline in five-inch tall letters which turns out to be a headline that completely contradicts or exaggerates the true reality of the topic.

      Just because Adepticon cancelled 9th Age does not make for an automatic correlation to the game's failure. Most likely it was cancelled because 9th Age has nothing tangible to sell as a company. It's not a game that is being sold and so maybe Adepticon only wanted games that were being produced by actual companies. Who knows. But I'm just tired of the Adepticon story being intertwined with the game's supposed failure or fall.
      Adepticon is relevant because it affected morale when morale was already low. It led to LT's rant and defection which further lowered morale.

      Thankfully, we rallied a bit at Cornerhammer
      "An hour of wolves and shattered shields, when the age of men comes crashing down! But it is not this day! This day we fight! By all that you hold dear on this good Earth, I bid you *stand, Men of the West!*"

      -Aragorn, son of Arathorn
    • @Bugman

      Won’t go into everything you wrote.

      Less minis? Maybe if you deliberately make an army with few minis. When I port over my 8th edition armies I get points for at least one more unit. I’m struggling to put some of my armies on the board as my collection can no longer fill core.

      And I am not sure how a comparison with GW’s mini requirement is relevant at all. Introduction and STARTUP of their games are much easier.
    • @Baranovich- come to Philly for our tourney!

      Other's of you check out Green Dragons Gaming. I'm hurt that it was only named once. I finally have a video to post, Ryan has been presenting a bunch of content, and I have a quick model review to post. Kinda a shame but still blown away by TMS product. Beautiful models! Just took me months to get them.
    • @Kristian- That is not true for all armies.

      Example is KoE. At one point I was fielding 50 Knights plus characters, 2 units of archers (10man), 2 units of men-at-arms (10man), and Yeomen, if not 2 units.

      Now, 33 knights, 3 characters, 2 yeomen, 2 scorpions. I miss my old army, but that is KoE. Other armies I feel you are correct on and they have more models on the field.
    • New

      Morgan_Treeman wrote:

      SirMC2015 wrote:

      Did you listen to any of those video's you posted?You are tagged as community engagement. Start a PM with me and we will come up with some ways to build the community. I have magic players looking at what we are playing. That is the gateway drug into table top. Be positive, have fun, and get them to join. Have them run your magic phase, ask then what they think you should do during your turn. ENGAGE THE SPECTATORS!
      yeah I've noticed a lack of content on youtube lately with dark wizard taking a break, OB retired, sustainable center switched to aos. only steady channel is balcony, skaz and I think warbox gaming. I think it's time I made some more videos, I have a few ideas in mind.
      Sustainable center plays 9th sometimes, but there are like no players near him just AoS/40k.
    • New

      At the risk of starting a possible political/regional argument I also see another problem with the way players in the U.S. analyze and perceive the game with regards to all these Youtube videos with epic titles of failure and falling.

      There is no question at least in my opinion that one element in this is the concept of American Exceptionalism. Gamers think that if a game isn't doing well in their country then the game must have failed or fallen everywhere. Or they declare that because nobody plays it at their club or group that the game is a general failure everywhere.

      It's no big secret that what I just described also explains why so many Americans believe things about other Europian countries that are 100% false simply because they have been told that it must be so. American Exceptionalism has I'm afraid reared its ugly head in the 9th Age world as it does with so many other things going on.

      Please do not reply to this by saying I'm anti-American or anti-west. America is a great place to live in many ways but we have a bad habit of thinking we're the center of the universe and that all things must be like they are here. We also have a bad habit of living in bubbles of our own reality that completely shuts out the real reality of what other countries are doing and accomplishing.

      To be blunt - the theme I'm seeing in numerous hundreds of comments that are responses to Sustainable Center, Chihammer and others is bascially, "well it may be like that in the U.S. but the game is doing great in our country", or "I have no idea what you're talking about we play the game all the time."

      We need to be wary of this new pseudo-media that analyzes games like 9th Age. I'm not saying that these Youtube channels don't have good insights or have good things to say. But too often they can't get out of their own way and seem to analyze things in a way that gives hugely false impressions and to be blunt distorts reality.
      There are many magic rings in the world Bilbo Baggins, and none of them should be used lightly!

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Baranovich ().

    • New

      What you’ve described isn’t an America-specific phenomenon, Baronovich. People only assume a problem is a problem if they’re experiencing a problem.

      People aren’t worried about North’s Korea’s nukes until their house is in range of their missiles. Likewise gamers aren’t worried about T9A losing players until there’s suddenly no one to game with.
    • New

      Baranovich wrote:

      Morgan_Treeman wrote:

      just an observation from typing "9th age" in YouTube and you get the following results that pop up in the top 5:

      The death of T9A
      The Fall of T9A
      Adepticon cancels 9th age

      That is not a great first impression for a potential new playet looking for info abouth the game.
      Yeah, but those search results are thanks to all the self-prescribed wargaming "experts" channels like Sustainable Center and Chihammer and others who made whole slews of videos discussing the perpetual, potential failure of 9th Age which other Youtube members then band-wagoned and in turn made their own videos about 9th Age's supposed "imminent collapse". Sustainable Center still has a video posted that he made while driving to work, it's at least several months old. It's titled exactly that, "T9A removed from Adepticon". And like many of Anthony's videos, only the first two minutes or so of it actually talks about the topic in the title and then the other 8 minutes deteriorate into a rambling, personal philosophy/commentary on the game. This is the video I'm talking about. You could literally delete most of this video because only the very beginning discusses Adepticon. Videos like this don't help the gaming community even though Anthony likes to think they do:


      This next one's title is even more epic. "The FALL of 9th Age". Very Tolkienesque and very epic-sounding. Could be the title of a fantasy novel. Great headline. The game FELL at some point, like some desperate warrior in battle who finally died from his wounds. Very epic. Again, this doesn't help the gaming community:



      People on Youtube often love to be the ones to declare that something has fallen or failed. Gets peoples' attention. It's a great headline. And it doesn't help.

      The worst part? As I said most of these "failure" videos end up being nothing more than their own story of PERSONAL likes/dislikes about the game and has no real credibility as far as data or community info to back up the title of the video. Those channels are irresponsible because they should NOT be naming their videos "did 9th Age fail", they should be naming their f'n videos "what I like and don't like about 9th Age". To make a title that's a statement of failure about a game right off the bat gives anyone searching for info. on 9th Age the impression that the game is failing, simply because one of these educated "experts" says so.

      Now the REAL problem with that is that there's not all that many 9th Age videos out there in relation to other topics like AOS or 40k. So when Anthony makes a video like that it really skews the average of the top search results when you factor in all of his followers who then make their own rants/discussions/etc. about the same topic.

      If you do a Youtube search for any major mini. wargame or PC/console game for that matter you'll get all the failure, fall, death of, and overrated-type hits first. That's because we live in a day and age where any j******s with a webcam and a microphone can create his own channel and begin discussing a game's supposed failure from the comfort of his bedroom.

      Seven years after Skyrim's release and there's still people creating videos asking, "did Skyrim fail as a game?". Lol, yeah after seven years' worth of devoted followers who still play the original game seven years later, people still buying new copies of the game seven years after its release, literally thousands of player-created mods for both PC and console, a special edition which sold record numbers of copies, a graphics-remastered release by Bethesda themselves, etc. millions of copies sold - and yet some gamer out there with too much analytical compulsion for his own good has the nerve to ask if the game has "failed". LOL is my response.

      If you even entertain giving serious credence to the insane notion that a mega-hit like Skyrim "failed", then I would ask you what in the HELL does a game have to do to qualify as being a success?????
      So, if making dramatic titles and proclaiming games unsuccessfully is par for the course on YouTube regardless of game or medium, why do you think 9th is the only game that search results are dominated by those type of negative videos? Think of AoS's launch and the hailstorm of popular videos coming out about why the game sucked/failed, those videos are being pushed out of search results because the recent reviews, batreps, discussions are generating more views,likes, and watchtime than those negative videos.

      This isn't the case with 9th because most of content creators have either dropped off or piled-on. There is barely anyone making battlereports, rumor discussion, news reveals, etc. Those that are, are not popular enough to dethrone those videos from the common search results. In a nutshell, the problem isn't popular youtubers making negative commentary, it's there's not enough positive content and/or the audience for that positive content is extremely small.
    • New

      How US and/or anglophone centric is the youtube community for wargaming? (Appropriately weighted by population).
      I.e. are US/anglophone gamers disproportionately likely to make youtube videos?

      I feel a bit lost here because I have never* watched a youtube video about gaming (or about much else really; I certainly never research a topic by going to youtube, because every youtube video I have watched on topics I actually know about tends to be nonsense).

      Is there a selection effect here that youtubers are (statistically) drawn to certain kinds of games more than others? (The US gaming culture is different, this was very clear even during 8th.)

      Perhaps some of you guys who like 9th age and want it to succeed need to make some nice youtube content for t9a players if this is really how people find out about us?

      *This is probably a lie, I have probably watched a battle report or two that was linked somewhere and not realised it was on youtube, which probably accounts for 10 or so videos over 20 years.
      New rules:
      (1) I will do my best to answer your criticisms, particularly of RT, but don't forget to thank one of the unsung heros who hold this project together: rules clarity team, lectors, website admin, background etc...
      (2) If you tag me and I don't answer you, its because I'm busy, sorry :( . If you still want an answer ~4 days later then tag me again and I will try to do better :)
    • New

      I'm sure we did, I was only responding to the post above mine that seemed to indicate that this concern stems from the idea of American exceptionalism.

      Stagnation and community reductions are real just about everywhere, it's just more evident here in the states where things are geographically more spread out and R&F wargaming as a hobby has less of a foothold to begin with.
    • New

      @Baranovich

      Aren’t you generalizing the American scene based on a few click bait YouTube videos?

      I’ve even kept my mouth shut in this rabbit hole of a thread but the point remains:

      In the US we have lost players, most have said because the rules change way too frequently for them to adjust/build paint armies.

      I have friends over seas literally spanning the globe who used to play Fantasy but aren’t playing T9A or are saying the same things about their own gaming circles. They’re losing players.

      Hopefully in your meta that isn’t the case, I’m glad your scene is thriving.

      But to claim American Exceptionalism in a thread literally talking about the state of the game here. The USA. Doesn’t seem to make much sense?


      @all

      For those who don’t want to read 58 pages of thread this can be summed up as follows:

      USA is losing players as shown by frequency and numbers at tournament. USA is requesting point freeze for all rules. Unlikely to happen per management. The trend of us losing players to other systems is likely going to continue. That’s coming from someone whose been with this from the start.

      I wish the project all the luck in the world, but when it comes down to it, I play this game to hang out with my friends, if @GenePhelps says we are going to play XYZ game, that’s probably what I’ll be playing too.
    • New

      JoeFin wrote:

      if @GenePhelps says we are going to play XYZ game, that’s probably what I’ll be playing too.
      And that, really, sums up almost every community here. We will play whatever "everybody else" is playing, because it's more important that we be able to regularly get games in than for that game to be the most balanced game of all the games.

      It's why we all stuck with that unbalanced dumpster fire of a ruleset that was 8th edition: frequent games with an okay ruleset are better than no games with a great ruleset.
    • New

      JoeFin wrote:


      For those who don’t want to read 58 pages of thread this can be summed up as follows:

      USA is losing players as shown by frequency and numbers at tournament. USA is requesting point freeze for all rules. Unlikely to happen per management. The trend of us losing players to other systems is likely going to continue. That’s coming from someone whose been with this from the start.
      And yet x-wing 2.0 will have an app for frequent points changes; there will be no points on any printed material.
      And GW have a fixed release schedule for updates/FAQs etc.
      This makes me feel like I haven't truly understood the root issue.

      (Distinguishing between rules and points for clarity):
      After the rules are frozen, will that be enough to get people back?
      If not, why not?
      What specifically about potential (e.g. annual) points changes is an issue?
      Is it because the armies require time and effort to put together compared to e.g. x-wing?
      New rules:
      (1) I will do my best to answer your criticisms, particularly of RT, but don't forget to thank one of the unsung heros who hold this project together: rules clarity team, lectors, website admin, background etc...
      (2) If you tag me and I don't answer you, its because I'm busy, sorry :( . If you still want an answer ~4 days later then tag me again and I will try to do better :)
    • New

      Bugman wrote:

      There is also the orange road done by our very own @Blonde Beer
      Since becoming exb though my channel isn't that active though, its mostly just tournament stuff. Only got so many hours in a day :).
    • New

      Point changes aren’t the primary problem, DanT, rule and name changes are. There were so many unnecessary terminology changes from 1.3 to 2.0 that many felt like they were reading a whole new book. Combine this with the general uncertainty over what will change and how often it will happen, along with a generally complicated and unapproachable rules text, and you can see why people are feeling hesitant.