State of 9th age in the US

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    • State of 9th age in the US

      @Fergus @Truckeye @Warboss Tooth @SkavenInAZ @billr @bubafett
      Please feel free to tag any1 I might have missed.

      So, as the title suggests, this is a thread dedicated to discussing the state of the game here in the US. There are many threads in sub forums for armies but none here in a main thread for the collective US based players.
      I can say since the hotfix I'm starting to worry. I've enjoyed this game since fantasy WH was murdered. I felt 2.0 brought some, some new life to the game. Not all armies had such luck. Then before the ink on the new paper I printed could dry the hotfix kicked many in the gut. The overall game rules seem fine. Some silliness here and there. Some rules are a bit too convoluted but nothing truly bad or crazy. Similar with magic. All the lores seem useful and have some dud spells but that's not a huge concern. Some are niche. The phase though, the veil tokens though... needs some work. It's a bunch of unnecessary rules bloat. The flux cards can be reworked to the average of what the tokens bring the dice pool to.
      Example: flux card #1 can be 7-5. So in with the power being 2-3 more than the inactive players dispell dice. This I feel would make the game faster and cleaner. Might add the variety to how many spells can be cast...
      Then comes the armies... is 9th age trying to be 6th edition WH + kings of war? Cause that's what each army is starting to feel like. The flavor and "soul" of every army has been bled dry.
      Little example...the bad...

      VS- less random vaininess. Sure it's makes for unreliable play but that's how fun games happen. Let's face it too, if this was a "real" situation sh*t happens in battle. Not everything can balanced and reliable.

      OnG- more or less the same of VS. animosity tests any1... not great but led to fun stories and unique games.

      DE- what a mess. I feel these should be the most brutal and combat focused elves ( perhaps pure savagery) yet they feel like elf/VS slavers with less than remarkable units and over complicated and convoluted cults.

      WotDG- what a unique mess. The feel could be okay but why so many changes? No reall BsB on foot? An armor that grants a refill? Less marked units okay I get, 7 deadly sins feel so less to worry about cool. So why suck obviously better marks? Pride any1? "Free" reroll break tests on cold blooded... barbs seem to be forgotten. Should they not make up the basic core army?

      The okay...

      HBE- a couple playable builds. 2.0 brought infantry to a playable level. ( which I feel 90% of players wanted ) Sure swiftstride is/too powerful and now can be attained through cosmology. Hamstrung into a certain lore? Elites in okay places but flame wardens now seem lost. Rending banner nerf?

      SA- eh, they are still dinos running around with other dinos. Strong well rounded army I feel. Can't say much as I dong have the point of view on them.

      SE- with the removal of fleet of foot I have to wait and see. I think it opens more builds. I think unseen arrows is still too restricted but time can tell if the team allow it too. Looking at you may "hotfix"?

      The good...yes there is some good.

      Ogres- they were to strong, thinknof early 8th but slightly toned down. Now, they are balanced and have builds. Merc vet combat, "gutstar" making a less powerful comeback. Shooting! Ogre gun lines? Yikes!

      DH- one of the only armies I feel are in a good spot. More options opened up then just sit and shot and counter charge. Bravo!

      EoS- still empire. Still well rounded.

      Thoughts?

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Cealyne ().

    • I honestly have been growing less and less interested in T9A since v1.3 came out, which makes me sad because I really enjoyed this game in the v.9 era. I feel this game is being catered more and more towards ETC and high level tournaments (read: bland without randomness and large swings aka Kings of War) instead of a fun beer and pretzels game that it came from. Hopefully I am wrong and just being pessimistic, because if not I guess my days of fantasy wargaming are coming to an end.
    • @proofyeq
      I feel 1.2 and then 1.3 took much fun of the game. Though I felt 2.0 brought some fun back with new builds. Though with each stage of this beta the game loses more and more. All in the sake of balance. A balance that brings us closer to KoW. KoW is an okay game in its own right, bland but not terrible. 9th age has to realize that if this game is to last, it needs to have things similar to the ties of fantasy to last. I'm not talking the old game. I'm talking FANTASY in a broader sense. The game developers and army ACS need to look at the goal of what HBE team did or tried to.
      Back to fantasy...
      Let's look at what makes us all love it and want to play with toy soldiers in this game.
      Tolkiens writings. Warcraft. Norse mythology. Greek mythology. The designers need to realize this. Making this game more like a fantasy version of the parts of human history is silly.
    • Fnarrr wrote:

      Cealyne wrote:

      DH- one of the only armies I feel are in a good spot. More options opened up then just sit and shot and counter charge. Bravo!
      Can you shout this as loud as possible via every medium you have access to please :P
      it shocks me that people can't see it. When 2.0 came out I adopted my 1.3 list and had points to spare. Some 300 to play around with. I watched at the last event that I played at, dwarves rock. Sure they have weaknesses but they should. Forge wardens suck? 4+ armor and fireproof. Vanguard and move to shoot? What nonsense. Lol they can protect the castle better than any1. They can vanguard me triple march combat threat. They have flyers! Triple lightning rune? WTF?! How did that get through? I watched this combo kill 9 plague brotherhood at the event I went to on the table next to me! 1 "hero level" dude did solo. My spear prince is broken my.
    • It wasn't a rant. I feel options in the book are strong that other large view as weak and vice versa.
      That's the reason I say good job! Apply this work and the 2.0 HBE book and the game will be fun again and last a long time. Apply the hotfix and continue to do so and the game will only last in Europe for a while and go the way of the dodo. Or better yet, at least the over lords could finally come out and say it's for ETC. the fact that rules freezes happen just before serious ETC play testing and tourney can't be coincidence. Nor the fact that the armies are goaded into play styles regularly seen at ETC or a Swedish Comp list.
    • Well, I was on DH Task Team for the 2.0 transition, and on Balance Team for the Hotfix.

      "not applying the hotfix" is...not really a smart option. Not changing things that are wrong (bla bla arguments on what is wrong and what isn't, point is you have a team of over a dozen people with twice as many advisers deciding that supposedly cherry picked from top tournie players) isn't a good direction in principle.

      Of course, if you have good designs, things either don't need hot fixing, or the designs don't break when you fiddle with prices up and down to improve balance.


      Just need good designs, But its easier said than done, because design is the hardest part of the whole thing.
      Hristo Nikolov
    • @Fnarrr
      You thought process makes sense to a point. If this was a hotfix. Which it is clearly not. Those who think it is are imbedded in the game and RT or BTL. This "hotfix" is clearly a relaunch of 2.0 with major changes to many books and rule book.
      A true hotfix would have addressed things like points discrepancies. Like say... seaguard being over priced or gutter blades being under priced.
      Small cast value changes on spells.
    • Cealyne wrote:

      at least the over lords could finally come out and say it's for ETC
      It may not look like that on the surface but the intention is the opposite. The goal is not to produce rules for ETC, but to use the ETC to stress test our rules. Though I can understand how the two can easily get mixed.

      As for ETC and SWEComp. Is it really that surprising considering the leading people in design are the same people who used to make ETCComp and SWEComp. As well as other individuals who were creators of local Comp's which were often stricter than ETC.

      Btw I am reading this. If you have any direct question I can answer I will try just give me a day or two reply window for anything elaborate.

      Background Team

      Conceptual Design

      Rules Advisors

      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- :BH: :DL: :DE: :DH: :EoS: :HE: :ID: :KoE: :OK: :O&G: :SA: :SE_bw: :VS: :UD_bw: :VC: :WDG:
    • I do appreciate the sentiment @Giladis.
      I can see the idea of stress testing the game with ETC but the play style that most ETC players use doesn't fully test all play styles. They play a selective few styles. Mostly:
      Points denial
      Protect the castle
      Shooty avoidance

      So the game seems to be developing towards these select play styles. All of which utilize MSU as a backbone. Not too fun.

      Hence my concern with the hotfix. 2 months passed ( not even ) and hard changes happened. Wouldn't it have been more productive to the game and community to freeze 2.0 rules for at least 4-6 months to acquire data based on tournament results and overall playtesting? The broader community surely has a better sample for the data to show what needs fixing then a freeze based on a selection of players who play a limited style? Thoughts?
    • Cealyne wrote:

      but the play style that most ETC players use doesn't fully test all play styles.
      Well the intention of the ETC stress test is not test all play styles but to show us the outliers that may or may not be above the power threshold.


      Cealyne wrote:

      The broader community surely has a better sample for the data to show what needs fixing then a freeze based on a selection of players who play a limited style? Thoughts?
      At what selection of players are you pointing at? The staff in the design process or the external experts we additionally consulted? Because neither are focused on just ETC and adjacent play styles. I would need to check the exact list but I distinctly remember people who do not participate at the ETC but are marked as experts in their local communities are part of the list.

      Background Team

      Conceptual Design

      Rules Advisors

      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- :BH: :DL: :DE: :DH: :EoS: :HE: :ID: :KoE: :OK: :O&G: :SA: :SE_bw: :VS: :UD_bw: :VC: :WDG:
    • Cealyne wrote:

      Fnarrr wrote:

      Cealyne wrote:

      DH- one of the only armies I feel are in a good spot. More options opened up then just sit and shot and counter charge. Bravo!
      Can you shout this as loud as possible via every medium you have access to please :P
      it shocks me that people can't see it. When 2.0 came out I adopted my 1.3 list and had points to spare. Some 300 to play around with. I watched at the last event that I played at, dwarves rock. Sure they have weaknesses but they should. Forge wardens suck? 4+ armor and fireproof. Vanguard and move to shoot? What nonsense. Lol they can protect the castle better than any1. They can vanguard me triple march combat threat. They have flyers! Triple lightning rune? WTF?! How did that get through? I watched this combo kill 9 plague brotherhood at the event I went to on the table next to me! 1 "hero level" dude did solo. My spear prince is broken my a*s.
      I can agree with the part about the triple lightning guy. Played DH at a tournament at the weekend and that guy did more damage in one round than the rest of the 30 strong spear unit and lord that were also in the unit.
    • I can agree with most points made here. 2.0 at the beginning introduced a lot of new interesting builds for a lot of different armies but then the hotfix knocked a lot of them back down. Most people that I hear talking about this hotfixes that it's not actually a hotfix but yet another patch. There was way too many changes and significant changes to really be calling it a hot fix. I still think we are in our way better State than we ever were in 8th Edition but it is tiresome of this game trying to chase the perfect balance that does not exist. We need to just stick on a rule set and just go with it for at least 6 months 2 a year before revisiting changes or whatever
    • You know the big complaints I hear from people on this forum are, the game has no flavor and it just isn't as cool as it used to be. I would like to make one very important, critical and simple point. This is not the old game. This is a brand spanking new game. Everyone seems to go into it with this preconceived notion that it should operate the same way the other game worked. It won't. Break from your rut and accept that this is completely new. Embrace it for what it is. I have enjoyed every single one of my games I have played so far.

      While I agree that some of the army lists could use a little flavor. My wife complains constantly about not being able to use her goblin with giant sguig model with appropriate rule (hint hint!!). But we are in the BETA. I read through the WotDG book. I think that it is extremely well put together and has a lot of flavor for the most part. The units are great and distinct. The army has a focus and very chaos like play style. The only thing I would have liked to see is a bit more elaboration on the 7 dark gods. Maybe add in some bonus if you run a mono god list or something like that. But other than that I think it was extremely well done with great fluff and stories. If all the books get this treatment this will be an extremely great game.

      So please everyone slow your roll (Looking at you HBE community). And try to look at the good things that are there.
    • cmccracken86 wrote:

      You know the big complaints I hear from people on this forum are, the game has no flavor and it just isn't as cool as it used to be. I would like to make one very important, critical and simple point. This is not the old game. This is a brand spanking new game. Everyone seems to go into it with this preconceived notion that it should operate the same way the other game worked. It won't. Break from your rut and accept that this is completely new. Embrace it for what it is. I have enjoyed every single one of my games I have played so far.

      While I agree that some of the army lists could use a little flavor. My wife complains constantly about not being able to use her goblin with giant sguig model with appropriate rule (hint hint!!). But we are in the BETA. I read through the WotDG book. I think that it is extremely well put together and has a lot of flavor for the most part. The units are great and distinct. The army has a focus and very chaos like play style. The only thing I would have liked to see is a bit more elaboration on the 7 dark gods. Maybe add in some bonus if you run a mono god list or something like that. But other than that I think it was extremely well done with great fluff and stories. If all the books get this treatment this will be an extremely great game.

      So please everyone slow your roll (Looking at you HBE community). And try to look at the good things that are there.
      you're right this isn't the old game. But I can get that at least 95% of the people playing this game are people that came over from the game of old and wanted to continue that style of play with their models they already owned. I know this has been a beaten topic on both sides for the last 2 years but for love of god stop changing things just to change them. There is no perfect balance. From what I can imagine this game will never see "gold" as the t9a team constantly want to hot fix or update things for" balance" just make a ruleset and stick with it. We've been hearing the age old rumor for over a year now "wait just a bit longer and it'll be final" . well most people have waited and are still waiting, longer than they initially said.
    • bubafett wrote:

      We need to just stick on a rule set and just go with it for at least 6 months 2 a year before revisiting changes or whatever
      Once we push the 2nd Edition out of the door that is what awaits us for a foreseeable future. Fixed immutable Rulebook, creation of new Full Army Books and annual balance checkups on Paths of Magic and the Armies to see if there is anything that needs to be adjusted outside new Army Book creation schedule but nothing on a scale we have been experiencing in the past two years. :)

      Background Team

      Conceptual Design

      Rules Advisors

      ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- :BH: :DL: :DE: :DH: :EoS: :HE: :ID: :KoE: :OK: :O&G: :SA: :SE_bw: :VS: :UD_bw: :VC: :WDG:
    • I agree with you that things have moved a tiny bit slower than we all had hoped. Also that the majority of players are from the old game. But I have been playing a long long ... long long .... holy poop.... really long time. Gamer's are resistant to change. I think that everyone looks on older editions with this nostalgia. Frankly the old game had so many huge problems that is makes 9th age look like best game ever created.

      I just implore everyone to look at the main rule book. Regardless of the army books that have some issues. Just the main rules. They are clean and concise. There is almost no argument over some obscure interaction anymore. Wording wise they could use a little touch up as some of the wording is a little clunky. But the scope of the rules is very clean. This is what makes a great game and allows you to build. The army books will get completed. These guys are working for FREE and working very hard. Be patient and be happy with what you have. I mean .. you could be playing Age of that one guy who shall not be named. (wretching noise).

      I know my community locally has grown pretty well. We are hoping to start running some bigger and better tournaments as we have some pretty good and prominent players.