HE armybook re-done

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    • Konrad von Richtmark wrote:

      @Herminard, I concur, a very much overlooked issue in game design is whether the rules incentivize such play that makes the game fun for the opponent.

      I think another deterrent for people to try the kind of playstyle you like is the feeling of exposure that comes with having so many units that cannot on their own stand up to much. I was but a wee lad back when TVI himself walked the Earth, during the days of WFB 6th edition, and I knew I felt more confident with units much reinforced, or with the glorious abomination that was the Steam Tank of that era rolling beside them in mutual support. But as the man himself said, tooling up our units to the max to be able to take anything head-on is a fool's errand, for others can play that game much better than we.

      As far as I know, Warmaster works precisely like that, the losing side is pushed back one movement unit per point it lost the combat round by. If that would push it back further than its maximum move, it instead breaks. Making units like heavy infantry well capable of holding the line but breaking rather than bending if overpowered, while units like light cavalry would be the exact opposite.

      As far as comes to my DE MSU ruminations, the only elite infantry available to a Cult of Olaron army is the Tower Guard, which seems to me very much like a double-edged halberd for the purpose. They are two-attack models, making their damage output disproportionately concentrated in the front rank, an advantage for such small units, as they lose less damage output from casualties than they would if they were single-attack models. On the other hand though, they are fearless, making them unable to choose to flee from a charge should the situation warrant it, which it would more often than not in a MSU elastic battleline concept. Perhaps, once we have concluded the discussion in the KoE list-building subforum, you would join me in my ruminations? Perhaps the dark pixies are more receptive to discourse on unorthodox army compositions than the bretboys have been so far?

      Warmaster has a mechanic like that eh? I were thinking that it was connected to combat reform - so that a unit that was engaged on multiple fronts could be pushed, but never push out the enemy themselves.

      I think the move 3 dwarfs would not be too happy if losing by 3 equaled auto-break. I think that for our game, the pushback should suffice.

      What do you think about the idea of choosing to flee in yer own movement phase (opponent does not get to pursue, but unit will also not rally before its next turn)?

      --

      RE: DE Olaron MSU - I agree this a steep challenge. I generally consider Fearless a royal honeytrap and would more often than not pay points to not be fearless. Having Tower Guards as the only elite inf option available is adding tools that are very similar to the tools you get from core.

      Is there a special reason why you wish to run with Olaron? Is it for the challenge of it?
      Why not hold elections for key seats? Oh! And direction of the game - that would also be hella cool :)

      Hermund Vigerust Endressòn Furu - Savage Sage of the Norse
      Faux-pro player and ETC vagabond.
      Enjoys the company of deluded nerds and women of unquestionably low morale.

      For questions of tactics, The Savage Arts of Playtrolling
    • Obviously, that mechanic could not simply be ported from Warmaster, 'tis a whole different game. It would require an entire rework of the combat score/resolution system, something that would be a very worthy goal for 3.0 years from now.

      I could see the relevance of a game mechanic that allows you not to flee unpursued out of combat on your turn, but rather something like a controlled disengage, such as backing off by the length of one advance move. Unit drops out of combat without fleeing. Units engaged in flank or rear not eligible.

      Cult of Olaron nowadays gives +1 Discipline to all its members, which includes core spearelves, rxbowelves and corsairs if the general is a cultist himself. That means I only need a humble captain as my sole character to get a Dis 10 bubble, and that (most essentially of all) all my dark pixie infantry have independent Dis 9. Ergo, the mobility of Elven infantry together with Dwarven levels of independent discipline. How's that for MSU?

      Your thoughts on fearless confirms what I thought. In my current concept list, the only Tower Guard unit I have is a 20-man bodyguard unit for the general, with the Banner of Gar Daecos to have effective Str 5 on the first combat round. My lack of high strength heavy hitters is indeed an issue. My planned remedy for it at the moment is the hereditary spell, it allows rerolling to-wound, either on ranged or melee. A veritable force multiplier for an army with a large number of low-strength attacks. To have a reasonable chance of casting it, I'd field two units of Dark Acolytes (aka "our unit champ is a wizard adept"), both picking that one and a damage spell for good measure.
      Sunna is not with the big battalions, but with the ones whose parts move with the best coordination.
    • @Konrad von Richtmark:

      Disengaging is a thing I have considered, too. However, it should not exist as a second movement phase but rather as a act and react after combat. In the example below, we shall omitt break tests.

      Combat is over, attacked unit may choose to disengage --> they take a test on their unmodified LD (BSB or general in another unit wouldn't help IRL) and they retreat- by X" *.
      The attacking unit may now select to hold their ground or pursue --> they take an unmodified LD-test (frenzy units may get a negative modifier) and pursue if failed. by X"*. Should they catch the unit, they fight on next turn and the unit counts as being the attacker with all advantages.

      Should the mellee continue for more than a turn, both units may select to withdraw upon a successful LD test.

      *X" may be a value of D3+(movement-4) taking humans as the baseline movement or D3+(1/2 movement characteristic) deminishing the advantage of a high movement characteristics.

      The advantage: this would make the game unique (as far as I can tell), much more dynamic, tactical, and boost the importance of inherent LD and M. Also, we can give certain armies special equipment to use this phase more efficiently: a signal horn, an flaming arrow shot across the battlefield, a spirit creature appearing, a roar, an optical signal, a beacon etc.

      As an example: Spearelves are attacked by ferral orks, they get beaten, choose to disengage, make it, orks follow as they fail their LD and are next turn flank-charged by a small unit of elite infantry as a big enough gap opened up to do so. Very thematic and tactical vs. the typical grind. (a thing often criticised by former Fantasy players, that refuse to come back to the game.)

      Just writing about it makes me want to test it! :)
      Home Brew: Sea Guard (~HBE)

      Sea Guard