2.04 HBE May Update- BLT Questions for Feedback

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  • 2.04 HBE May Update- BLT Questions for Feedback

    Admirals,

    You have spoken and I’ve consolidated the most common questions from the Questions thread for your review here.

    To set expectations:
    PR has since clarified the scope and these are questions for the BLT on pricing. Many of your questions were more design related so they’ll have to be saved for future engagement. But we got plenty of BLT Questions.

    These questions can not be multi part, so they need to be clear and focused (which I’ve tried to achieve)

    We can only submit 6 questions

    We should expect to receive feedback no later than 3 weeks after submission (May 23rd)

    What we need from you:
    Review the questions below and provide feedback if:

    1) you feel the question could be more effectively worded based on the parameters above

    2) you feel you’d like to use a questions(s) on another unit/item/upgrade

    3) some questions have various versions, please comment on which you prefer

    Thank you for all your input and I look forward to joining you for this journey of engagement with the BLT.

    -Vesp
    @PapaG



    Fleet Officer
    Considering that +1 to deploy first is a double edged sword (as it is a common tactic to drop for first turn), and comparing the leadership buff to what a BSB provides, what is the rationale behind the 90 point price tag?


    High Warden of the Flame
    Considering the drop in defense from losing a shield (-2 ows -1 arm, or -2 arm), as well as the often negative effect of constant Flaming Attacks in a Fireborn Character filled meta in addition to the loss of magic attacks for character and unit, how did BLT arrive at the decision to drop the entry 15 points?


    Frosty
    Considering that the Frost Phoenix lost its sweeping attacks, and its aura now both solely targets soft stats and provides often redundant buffs to many of our entries (with high ows, agi, and Lightning Reflexes), how did BLT arrive at the decision to drop the entry 40 points

    WBoR
    Since war banner of ryma on cavalry is now strictly weaker in all aspects to what it was in 1.3 (less AP, doesn't work on characters)
    How did BLT arrive at the decision to increase the price tag?


    Ring of the Pearl Throne
    What builds does BLT consider competitively viable with the Ring of the Pearl Throne


    or


    What is BLT's rationale for the 100 points price of the Ring of the Pearl Throne


    Nova Flare
    The price of this confuses many when comparing it to Blessed Inscriptions, could BLT please explain this?


    or


    Could BLT please provide a rational for how the 105 point price tag was reached


    or


    What builds with the Nova Flare does BLT consider competitively viable


    or



    Are there builds that BLT considers problematic that a lowered price tag would enable?

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Vespacian ().

  • Nota single question about:

    1) how expensive HBE lords are related to what they bring to the board

    2) how bad mounts are, specially AD, our flagship?

    Anyway, this questions are useless. It has been already admitted that things are done randomly, which is why this project is broken:

    • Most of RT and BT bring amateur players with no deep understanding is the game
    • RT and BT stating that they have 16 books to look at and that means a lot of work for them.
    • Lack of trust in ACS
    • Army communities not being listened

    Example of what I'm saying: "Demon Bane had to be redesigned but we were tired when doing HBE book and we came with this super solution". Result? A useless item.

    Other example: contradictions in principles. HBE being told to have low synergies because of powerful characters and then @Giladis stating publicly that HBE cannot have strong characters (i.e.: low armor low T and not more than 4A).

    This project is so erratic that I feel this kind of posts will only produce more and more frustration. Not to talk about circular threads and opinions (last one: @Aenarion43 and his thread about HBE identity. How many times it has been raised the issue is defensiveness or tankiness in this army while being ignored?).

    There is a strange mix between boredom and clown-like fun.
    Who are you going to believe: me, or your own eyes?
  • Nopuiiidorl wrote:

    Most of RT and BT bring amateur players with no deep understanding is the game
    I am intrigued as to your definition of amateur here?
    What would it take for us to not be amateurs?
    Ask not what the project can do for you, but what you can do for the project :)

    Don't forget that however convinced you are of your opinion on something in the project, or something it should/shouldn't do, there is someone out there holding on to the opposite belief just as strongly :D
  • Being individually strong does not automatically mean an overall strong character or top tier. But can be strong in a specific aspect like damage or tanking.

    Background Team

    Conceptual Design

    Rules Advisors

    ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- :BH: :DL: :DE: :DH: :EoS: :HE: :ID: :KoE: :OK: :O&G: :SA: :SE_bw: :VS: :UD_bw: :VC: :WDG:
  • im mostly wondering why they even Changed the Frostys ability before players were even going as far as trying him out...
    Played him once in a Tourney on 2.3 with 2 Griffins and his ability was Awesome!!
    now with -2 Off or Defensive skill he seems like something totally not needed in an Elves army!

    and at best asked why just make things that were taken increase in Points and the rest decrease in Points...with almost no Point of View on Internal or External Balance.....
    I never was mad about things being Patched, but this last one was done so hastly, loveless and Unthoughtfull that it almost got me to quit the Game and say "fu** it" these guys dont know what they are doing either!

    I liked the design changes though but Points Changes were just done without much thinking.....Sorry
  • @Nopuiiidorl
    There was a thread open to gather input on these questions from the community for over a week. You did not post anything there.

    If you’d like the questions you alluded to above included please post them in a constructive question format and we can potentially include them.

    @doctorgonzo
    No judgement on the actual designs themselves, I have my own opinion as I was not involved in the process this time around.

    Remember these are pricing questions, not design.

    All I can do is promise to do better on design changes for future updates and FAB.
  • Gentleman, please stay ontopic, questions have to be BLT related. So only point/balance related.

    Many points you address are ADT and RT related and in no way related to this topic.

    @Giladis and @DanT thankyou for answering questions and involving the community once again.

    If you have any further questions ADT, BGT or RT related feel free to tag us in a dedicated topic or the general discussion.

    Army Design Team Coordinator


    "Great things in business are never done by one person.
    They're done by a team of people."

    – Steve Jobs
  • @Vespacian its not Design that really worries me (even though i dont like changing something new, before its fielded oftenly enough...Frosty)

    but Point-Balance on this patch was like:
    -lets look WTC lists, everything that is picked very commonly...UP Points
    -everything that is not fielded....down in Points...

    ohh cool i could have done that aswell xD

    I even know who´s actually to blame for this but not calling names here, but i see his signature very Strongly in this kind of Balance behavour.

    Still i dont like it...it seems not very thoughtfull and forces Things that will end up like a sloopgate under 1.0 or Vermins Disciple spamm in 1.2 and so on.
    this kind of Blanancing Actions will always lead to underpriced Loopholes that are gonna be spammed until they are closed again and not seen anymore...

    some People just seem to forget, that often the players choices will still be what they can actually Field without building or painting....Or Picks they are used to and comfortable with....
    Most of the time its a question of Ressources (Models/Time to get used to new Unit) that is deciding what is gonna be picked and what not.

    and enough with offtopic ;) sorry, had to get my anger out somewhere :)
  • I guess we can ask what they mean by:
    1. Tanking character
    2. Damage dealing character
    3. Specialist character
    And ask them to give examples to each with the current book, within a singles tournament list. And articulate how they'd play these armies.

    A second question would be why cannot we make a specialist charecter using only hbe items. (may be we could in that case please use these set ups in above lists)
  • General question: I noticed that between 2.03 and 2.04 50% of my favourite stuff got a price change. Why do you adjust prices of so many
    items and models while (as far as I know) no-one is complaining about them? And make a lot of existing builds impossible? Where does the
    incentive to do that come from?

    Asfad: the 90pts, how much are for Drain Magic and how much for +6 inch range?

    Queen's Guard: if there were to be a proposal to offer optional shields, at how much ppm would they be priced?

    Nova Flare: what in the design would need to change to bring this item's price to under 105 points/accessible to commanders?
    This forum need polls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Playing/painting: SA, DE & HbE ..

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Teowulff ().