The First Trial!

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

The latest issue of the 9th Scroll is here! You can read all about it in the news.

  • The First Trial!

    @Masamune88, @Calcathin, @PapaG, @Vespacian, @Aegon, @ArchangelusM, @Giladis, @AlexCat, @ferny, @Emgies, @Adam, @cptcosmic, @Borjnfer Wraith, @Noldor, @Balgoth, @Squirrelloid, @Riismanden, @Archeron, @Apex jonas, @matrim


    As you may remember, I started a thread asking about entries that you, as members of the Highborn Elf community, felt were bad entries or those that could not be made to work in any way. Last night, I tried to make a list with 4 of the things mentioned (Gryphon Prince w/ Nova Lance, Sea Guard, Reaver Chariot units, and Frost Phoenix). As one could imagine, getting all those things to work is KIND OF painful. Unsurprisingly, I failed. After some consideration and discussion with my opponent, I've come to the conclusion that the biggest problem was trying to include too much in the list.

    I firmly believe that each of these entries can be made to work. HOWEVER, not all at once. As such, over the next couple of weeks, I will be making a thread with the results of my games and an evaluation of how the unit performed at the end. For these games, I've love it if my opponents would be willing to provide their perspective, being on the receiving end of said unit. In short, get the opinion on both sides of the fence of the unit.

    An important point, in my area people play at 5k. Even more so now that Brawler Bash is happening soon, and is being run at 5k. As part of my evaluation, I will also comment on whether I think that the item is viable at 4500, rather than the 5k that is always played in my area.

    Without Further Ado,

    THE RING OF THE PEARL THRONE TEST LIST (5000):
    Characters:
    - High Prince: Army General. Queen's Cavalier. Dragonforged Armor, Elven Horse, Paired Weapons. Ring of the Pearl Throne, Ghostly Guard, Hero's Heart.
    - Commander: Battle Standard Bearer. Master of Canreig Tower. Light Armor, Great Weapon. Essence of Mithril, Potion of Strength.
    - Mage: Wizard Adept. Order of the Fiery Heart. Alchemy spellcaster. Talisman of the Void. Magical Heirloom.
    Core:
    - Citizen Archers (x20) with Musician
    - Citizen Spears (x25) with Full Command Group and the War Banner of Ryma
    - Citizen Spears (x25) with Full Command Group and the War Banner of Ryma
    Special:
    - Giant Eagle
    - Knights of Ryma (x12) with Full Command Group and the Navigator's Banner
    - Reaver Chariot
    - Reaver Chariot
    - Sword Masters (x24) with Full Command Group and the Flaming Standard
    Naval Ordinance:
    - Sea Guard Reaper
    - Sea Guard Reaper
    Queen's Bows:
    - Grey Watchers (x5) with Paired Weapons, Shields, and Scout

    Please note that this list also includes a single unit of Grey Watchers for testing purposes.
    My army has rocks, papers, and scissors. The reason you lost this war is that you thought we were playing checkers at every battle. - Anon. Highborn Elf Prince.
    Highborn Master of the Infantry and aspiring Equitaininan Champion of the Lady.

    Playtester

    DL Army Community Support

  • SO, on to the main show:

    How does the Ring of the Pearl Throne Work here?

    Well, the first step is to realize that this bugger is hitting QUITE hard on the charge. The Prince has: OS8, Lightning Reflexes, Ignores Parry, S5 AP3, A6 with Devastating Charge (Fear, +1A). That's a LOT of output. Ghostly Guard means that he'll have a 1+ save against MOST things in the game. Whenever he encounters an enemy packing a magic weapon, then turning it off with the Ring of the Pearl throne should provide a significant advantage by restoring his 1+ Armor Save. Against enemies with few defenses, then he can turn off their armor/talisman. This is ESPECIALLY effective if magic can be used to eliminate more of the opponent's armor and/or increase the wounds delivered.

    The best thing about this prince is that he isn't JUST a character killer. He'll hit every rank and file unit in the game at I9 on the charge and deal significant damage while having good staying power to make up for his delivery system.

    Magic:
    The combination of Adepts gives Channel 3, and the ability to take a good variety of buff and damage spells. I find that Alchemy provides better "Bang" for the buck by having excellent buffs AND good damage spells available to me. Being able to load up on spells that give additional S or AP is important for all of my combat blocks, improving my ability to fight. The MoCT's low grade healing means that short of suffering something catastrophic (e.g. taking 16 wounds from a Stone Thrower on turn 1), my combat blocks should reach in fighting fit state.

    I am slightly uncomfortable with the low level of chaff in the list, but consider it a necessary evil. While the spears are good units, they cannot stand up to dedicated elites from other armies. That's where our friends the Sword Masters come in. With 4 legitimate combat block threats, the enemy should have their chaff stretched fairly thing. This is even more true because of the Archers and Bolt Throwers being able to eliminate chaff quickly as well as the anti-chaff capabilities of my Reaver Chariots.

    The Grey Watchers are there MOSTLY to protect the Sword Masters. The -1 to hit is fairly powerful, and has the potential to take a (potentially devastating) warmachine out of the equation for enough time to reach combat.



    As to the choices of units:
    - Between Lancers and Knights of Ryma, the latter are CLEARLY a superior unit. However, it may be correct to use a bus of Lancers as the "main event" and have a stronger combat block in Special. Personally, I find that the low cost of the spear units is a VERY big bonus in this regard. They can handle themselves in combat if properly supported by magic and shooting. The Lancers will struggle with this, while being FAR more vulnerable to Alchemy. So to me, the choice of delivery system goes to Knights of Ryma hands down.
    - The elite infantry block: Sword Masters. While all 3 of our elite infantry blocks are good, I chose sword Masters for various reasons. One is personal, as I consider them to be the coolest unit of the three. With regards to their FUNCTION, however, I picked them because their damage output is ridiculous for their price. I've also personally found that giving units protection against firepower from enemies is much easier than making up for the poor combat output of sword masters. I am wary of Lion Guard because their damage output is not as great. Lacking their usual Stubborn, I think that using Magic to boost the sword masters is a better choice.

    The Grey Watchers are there to help provide protection to my guys. Being able to force a -1 onto Warmachines is a BIG deal, and quite easily game changing in this scenario.

    :)

    Any other questions or concerns on the list?
    My army has rocks, papers, and scissors. The reason you lost this war is that you thought we were playing checkers at every battle. - Anon. Highborn Elf Prince.
    Highborn Master of the Infantry and aspiring Equitaininan Champion of the Lady.

    Playtester

    DL Army Community Support

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Aenarion43 ().

  • A short summary of the game could be stated as "The Highborn Elf Prince is bad, and should feel bad. While the Equitainian Duke needs to burn some juniper branches to regain the Lady's favor again." SirMC2015 had quite terrible luck most of the game, while I made many mistakes.

    The result of the game was a resounding victory for the Lady's Knights. However, I don't think that it's a result of the list itself so much as my current skill level (after nearly 4 months of not playing due to health reasons, this is my second game). One of the biggest mistakes (one which I repeated during the game) was fleeing a charge when I should have held. Doing this in turn 2 cost me my OotFH mage. On turn 4 it cost me my Tower Master and sword Masters.

    The first important point is that the amount of infantry blocks in the list is too high. With their limited mobility, they get in each other's way too much. The first step with the list is going to be to adjust that so that the list can work better. Dropping a block of Citizen Spears for some Highborn Lancers should do the trick, as well as provide me another good flanking unit. The exact number will be up in the air, but some number ranging from 11 to 14 ought to do it. An important point here will then be finding the right spot for the Prince to hang out in, which I think will vary between games.

    The second is choosing the right spot for the archers to deploy in. During the game, I chose a trick I'd seen many people use, where they deploy the archers in front of the battle line, then flee them behind their units. My big mistake here was not realizing that this trick doesn't work if your combat units are your win condition. In that case, you need to have them out in front to get where they need to go.

    The third is simply that it's hugely important to deploy your mages in the correct location to ensure that they are able to get to the right targets and provide the support they need.

    ON THE LIST ITSELF:
    - The Prince with the Ring did his job quite well, dealing VERY high amounts of damage to anything he touched. Charging the aspirants saw him do, I think, 5 wounds on the charge after armor and ward. Considering he was going against 2+/6++, that's NOT BAD. He saw combat 3 times. Two on the charge, and one on the grind. The first charge, as I mentioned, saw him do 5 wounds. The second one saw some fairly bad rolling on his part AND good saving on the Knight's part, so he only did 2 wounds (though here he was up against 2+/5++). The last one saw him do 2 wounds to a KoE Paladin character. However, he put 5 wounds on the character, who saved 2 wounds on armor and 1 on the 6++ Aegis from the Blessing. I believe @SirMC2015 said he had been ready to delete him after seeing how that round of combat went. Overall, I think that the Promise Ring build is fairly good, and has a LOT of potential. Further testing is a good idea here. I Plan to try this build out a again, HOWEVER, I also have another build with Shield Breaker + Lance that should have a similar effect. :)

    - The magic set-up is OKAY in the original list, but not spectacular. Too many buff/hex spells, without enough damage dealing capability. Having Quicksilver Lash available already through my BSB makes the availability through the OotFH redundant. Glory of Gold and Word of Iron are great spells, but don't provide much that the list can't already get elsewhere. Changes are definitely a good idea in this section.

    - Core is good, but with two combat blocks in Special, the spears are too much with each other. Too many slow-boating combat blocks. As was mentioned before, I think dropping a unit of Citizen Spears for some Highborn Lancers is a good choice. They'll provide options for placement of the Prince, making it harder for my opponent to deploy. They'll also provide another "Flank and Spank" unit to threaten breaking steadfast and hurting my opponent. Overall, some changes here are recommended too.

    - Sea Guard Reapers and Grey Watchers be good. The Grey Watchers in particular reinforced my opinion that they are CRIMINALLY underplayed in HbE armies. The amount of power they provide to combat lists is ASTOUNDING. Frankly, I'm always a bit surprised that so many people think they are bad. Get them with Paired weapons into the flank of a unit fighting anything else in the list, and they become INCREDIBLY powerful. Use their shooting to dissuade charges into your units. Make threatening warmachines into useless missing machines. Their uses in HbE combat lists are myriad and varied. What is clear to me, however, is that they should always be included if you are planning to win the game in the "Face Punching" Phase.

    - As to the combat blocks, when supplementing their defense properly, both are DEVASTATING. Healing Waters, Beast Within (toughness), and Favor of Meladys should be good enough to keep them both alive. Both units are obscenely powerful when dealing damage. Once their survivability is boosted. . . . . yeah. It ends badly for everyone ELSE involved. :D
    My army has rocks, papers, and scissors. The reason you lost this war is that you thought we were playing checkers at every battle. - Anon. Highborn Elf Prince.
    Highborn Master of the Infantry and aspiring Equitaininan Champion of the Lady.

    Playtester

    DL Army Community Support

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Aenarion43 ().

  • @Aenarion43:

    Why not scraping citizen spears + archers and using Sea Guard instead?

    I mean they can do both at the same time :D .

    Now seriously, I like your list; sounds good to me.

    And that is the problem: not enough of our crap units :D .

    Reaver Chariots aren't that bad with the current price (speaking about the single models; additional models are still way to expensive).

    Your prince build is nice though and the combination of the ring+ghostly guard is interesting.

    I'm really interested in your game results and analysis, so thanks in advance for that ;) .
    Furion about our SeaGuard (V.0.202.0): "I don't expect much of them, and indeed not much have they delivered"
  • First off I am honored to be on your list of consults for this project.

    My first concern is your choice of mount for your Prince. I suspect you will be running it in the Ryma Knights unit? But with the potential of running it out on a solo mission at some point the mount seems a bit soft for such an expensive caracter. Proceed with caution.

    BSB MotCT: Very popular build these days. Keep it secret, keep it safe. Basically keep it out of combat. So why the Potion of Strength? Is it really going to hug something to death?! I have looked at this ability several times and I just can't bring myself to use it. for the 25 points you could give the banner it is carrying an enchantment; either the Aether Icon or the Legion Standard. They can increase the survive-ability of the Spear/Archer unit you have it in.

    Citizen Archers: We all need em. They are not the best archers at our disposal, but the certainly are the least expensive. I propose 2x10 units and here is why. with the smaller size unit you don't need the musician as much, and they can be used as chaff in mid or late game if needed. lastly, it gives you two scoring units rather than one, and I have won a game with them grabbing victory points on late turns ;)

    Citizen Spears; in my experience are pretty reliable even without much magic support if they are closer to 30 figures. I do not see you getting much good use out of the Ryma Standards as you would say Legion Standards or Banners of Discipline. Yes, sometimes it is better to charge than be charged, but those expensive Ryma banners probably won't pay off as much as you hope they will.

    Knights of Ryma; I would shave off one or even two of them. Let your Prince do most of the heavy lifting making sure to answer any challenges with him. As good as the Nav banner can be I would take the Banner of Speed to help them make those turn two long charges more of a possibility.

    Sword Masters; What can I say, to each their own. I prefer my Lion Guards. Too many Monsters out there to not have our best answer to those big nasty beasts.

    Reaver Chariots; Fairly good anti-chaff on the flanks. Also can chaff/support your Ryma Knights. more expensive than Eagles, but Eagles don't have 2 longbow shots nor impact hits either. I look forward to hearing how they work for you.
    On a personal note, I am planning on a list with a unit of 3 Reaver chariots with full command to support my Royal Huntsman BSB with GW on his Lion Chariot.
    Enchantments are Banner of Speed and Stalker Standard.
    This Valiant Chariot unit can pack a pretty good punch. It is fearless, and with the Reaver chariot champion can weather a challenge leaving the Commander a turn to do some real damage in the first turn of CC.

    SGRs; Love em, but they got a little too expensive for me. Maybe I will take em again someday. War Machines are great when they hit, but they don't always hit. And since that is all they can do I prefer to use those points to flesh out other units instead.
    you have 360 points invested here, You could field 12 QG with spears for that with 5 points left over.

    Grey Watchers; Have fun with these guys. Five is a bit few, they can evaporate pretty quickly from missile fire. I usually go with 8 or 10 when I use them.

    Good luck.
    Failure is not an option.
  • @Aegon
    Because Sea Guard get their own dedicated list. I am planning to combine them with a Frost Phoenix to try and take advantage of their DS5. Combined with the Navigator's Banner to create the type of "Come At Me, Bro" block that many people have been requesting for HbE. I personally think that Sea Guard are very close to the correct "break point" of price. They are still SLIGHTLY too high, but have come VERY close at this point.

    I am glad to see you think the list is good! After playing with it some, I plan to include critiques of my list and play. There are several things that I plan to change on it after the experience.

    The Reaver Chariots are . . . . difficult for me to handle. An Eagle that you hide, then serve on a platter with some rice and beans to the enemy is much easier to use. One of my goals moving forward is learning to use Reaver chariots proprerly. They are now a very versatile unit (though I would prefer to see them as T3 with 4 wounds) that can take on a LOT of different roles in a game. My view is that they are a swiss army knife that you need to use properly.

    @SirMC2015 suggested that I try to make it work. I think that Ring + Ghostly Guard w/ Hero's Heart gives a great chance to wreck face. Unfortunately, the list that he is running right now is probably one of the WORST match-ups for the Prince build you see. An alternate build you could consider is:

    Prince, Cavalier, General. Horse, Dragonforged Armor, Shield, Lance. Ring, Shield Breaker, Alchemist Alloy. (Here is where an item like your version of the Daemon's Bane would be wonderful and magical, avoiding the taxation of the Dragonforged Armor.)

    @matrim

    Ablative wounds for the Knights of Ryma. Their purpose is to be on the flanks punching face REALLY hard. So having those extra wounds before they stop breaking steadfast is a big deal. It also gives me the ability to deploy them wide (either 6 or 7) to hit like two trucks instead of one. Overall, I find that going with the large bus works well in these cases.

    The Navigator's Banner was a choice to "Double down" on their power in the first turn. The idea being that on the charge they hit more than hard enough, and what they need is better defense to limit the odds of giving up wounds.

    @Borjnfer Wraith

    The Citizen Archers, being so matchup dependent, I am likely going to cut. One of the major things that I noticed was that my combat infantry blocks kept "tripping" over themselves and struggling to reach the right spot. So I am planning to combine the points from a unit of archers and a unit of Citizen Spears into a unit of Highborn Lancers. This should give my list more mobility, and allow it to function more smoothly. :)

    The Prince did indeed go in the Knights of Ryma. Personally, I think that you cannot run the Ring of the Pearl Throne on anything BUT an Elven Horse. Anything else will have too little defense or too little offense. Even on the Elven Horse, it is definitely questionable whether the build is viable or not. This is the question that I am working on asking myself. "Is the Ring of the Pearl Throne a viable item as a Highborn Elf artefact?" The item has an EXTREMELY powerful effect. My concern is simply that there is not a viable carrier. As such, I am working on this as my first "Trial of Community". Find at least one build of the Ring of the Pearl Throne that I am comfortable using. :)

    I tend to run my MoCT BSB into combat. Put him on a corner, and between the 2+ and his defensive spells, he certainly has the capability of surviving. I *do* wish that he were allowed to choose to use the attribute from the lore he casts (so that Lash and Beast Within were usable in other ways). However, I find that the short range on some of his spells is VERY relevant (cough, Waters, cough). However, the Potion has the BIG advantage that it can be used to take down a monster or tough chariot that comes in. It really can end some threats to the unit once you add in their swings too.

    I've found that a unit of 20 w/ Muso + Standard works as a sort of "chaff/anti-chaff". However, for a mainline unit, I've had good success with the units of 25. I may try to increase the size for my next list, if it fits with the other changes that I am looking into. Thanks to their price dropping and the spear rules, they are fairly good units now.

    As to the combat blocks:
    - Knights of Ryma having ablative wounds for breaking steadfast is one of my concerns. The Prince adds grinding power to them, but they really DO need value the extra help. Based on my game tonight, I think that the Banner of Speed is a better pick on the Knights of Ryma, while the Navigator Banner can go on Sword Masters. As to why them before Lion Guard, it has to do with a combination of local area and the lack of a Foot Prince. Once Stubborn is out of the way, having the extra damage output is very relevant. There are also nearly no monsters/monstrous cavalry/monstrous beasts in my meta/region. I don't play on UB outside of certain people, so I do not see quite as much as other players may see. I *do* like Lion Guard more if I take a foot prince *OR* if I take multiple blocks of infantry.

    Reaver Chariots are great. I just stink at using them. Ye GODS, but they have been giving me a headache lately. I still struggle to use them. The fact that I have been punching above my weight lately hasn't helped either!

    I agree with you on the Reapers. They *DO* have an advantage over queen's guard in versatility. Each unit has its pros and cons, however. Personally, I am giving them another chance after they so badly disappointed me in the past. I will let bygones be bygones, and give my SGR a chance to prove their worth once again. Personally, if I were to field QG, I'd rather go with 10x w/ Banner of Becalming.

    Finally, I think GW are a unit that does incredible things to help combat blocks survive. Whether it is flank fighting to give their debuff or shooting their debuff into enemies, I think the unit is very awesome.



    PS. To everyone, It is quite late, so I plan to write up the results of the game tomorrow. @SirMC2015 was my opponent, and quite thoroughly trounced me despite some very bad luck on the dice. If you don't mind, Sir, could you give your opinions, having been on the receiving end, of the Prince with the Ring and the Grey Watchers? If you have other opinions on things that should be different (e.g. magic set-up, lores, unit choices for this type of aggressive list), I (and I am sure everyone else on here) would love to hear them.

    PPS. Once I have written up everything, I will write a modified list to see what the NEXT result is like. The trial will be complete when I find a build for the Ring of the Pearl Throne that I believe works well. :D
    My army has rocks, papers, and scissors. The reason you lost this war is that you thought we were playing checkers at every battle. - Anon. Highborn Elf Prince.
    Highborn Master of the Infantry and aspiring Equitaininan Champion of the Lady.

    Playtester

    DL Army Community Support

  • @Aenarion43- I gladly will write something up later. I have work today.

    I will say briefly that the bus of Ryma did 11 wounds and should have recked my questing knights as I was getting desperate due to some bad luck that cost me my Grails, General, and mage. From that combat i made 7 saves, and 2 wounds that got through were on my champ in a challenge.

    The ring I can actually see on different builds from an opponents view and be something I need to deal with.

    I think the biggest issue with our game was my threat range and my opponent could not dictate the battles. That is the strength to a cavalry KoE army.

    I would not lose the archers. They were misplayed, which cost the unit and the mage with them.
  • The post with the game's results and opinions of the units after trying them all out is up! Let me know what you think or if you have any questions on how it went! :)

    @Adam

    I've always liked trying to make things work, and finding off the wall builds. It's quite fun to allow my creativity to roam free. Once a good build/list is discovered, it's really fun and rewarding to play. I'm glad you like the Prince build! It took a LONG while to reach this one. I think it's one of the most promising ones for the Ring, but there's quire a few others that I've thought of that MAY work. :)

    @Aegon, @Borjnfer Wraith, @matrim, the post (#3) with the list evaluation is up. Let me know what you think!
    My army has rocks, papers, and scissors. The reason you lost this war is that you thought we were playing checkers at every battle. - Anon. Highborn Elf Prince.
    Highborn Master of the Infantry and aspiring Equitaininan Champion of the Lady.

    Playtester

    DL Army Community Support

  • All right, modified list, that I *think* will work better overall.

    Characters:
    - Commander: Battle Standard Bearer, Master of Canreig Tower. Great Weapon, Light Armor. Essence of Mithril, Banner of the Relentless Company
    - High Prince: General, Queen's Cavalier. Paired Weapons, Heavy Armor, Elven Horse. Ring of the Pearl Throne, Ghostly Guard, Hero's Heart.
    - Mage: Wizard Adept, Pyromancy. Talisman of the Void, Magical Heirloom.
    Core:
    - Citizen Spears (x25) with Full Command and Rending Banner
    - Highborn Lancers (x12) with Full Command and Banner of Speed
    - Citizen Archers (x10) with Musician
    Special:
    - Giant Eagle
    - Reaver Chariot
    - Reaver Chariot
    - Knights of Ryma (x12) with Full Command Group and Banner of Speed
    - Sword Masters (x25) with Musician/Standard and Navigator's Banner
    Queen's Bows:
    - Grey Watchers (x5) with Scout and Paired weapons
    Naval Ordinance:
    - Sea Guard Reaper
    - Sea Guard Reaper

    The swap to pyromancy compensates the loss of archers for chaff clearing. Once Alchemy is not chosen, then losing the OotFH (which is just a paywall for Alchemy) makes sense. The most likely combination that he'll have is Favor of Meladys, Flaming Swords, and one of the damage spells.

    Swapping a block of Citizen Spears and some archers for a unit of Highborn Lancers adds mobility. Having 12 means that there are 2 to 3 (depending on whether the Prince is with them or not) spare wounds before the ability to break steadfast is lost. The Banner of Speed makes them a HUGE zoning threat, as they have an average charge range of 18-19 inches (average being 18.5 on 2D6 Swiftstride). It helps create a set of "no go" zones in front of my infantry that allows them to move up easier. The Relentless Company BSB lets the unit he is in (likely the Sword Masters) keep up with the cavalry and put pressure on the enemy. The Navigator's Banner means that everything except other super elite elves hits them on 5's (even Chosen). So it brings a HECK of an advantage to them in combats where the few attacks that go back at them are most likely hitting on 5's (and then having to get through magical defenses with a little luck).

    The rest of the list is fairly similar. I am using the same build on the Prince because I want to see how he does. I think that he has REALLY good potential, but need to try him out more. If all goes well, then on Tuesday I will be able to test the list out against a friend of mine and his Beast Herds army. It'll certainly be a better matchup than KoE with magical attacks spam (No offense, @SirMC2015)!
    My army has rocks, papers, and scissors. The reason you lost this war is that you thought we were playing checkers at every battle. - Anon. Highborn Elf Prince.
    Highborn Master of the Infantry and aspiring Equitaininan Champion of the Lady.

    Playtester

    DL Army Community Support

  • Aenarion43 wrote:

    The post with the game's results and opinions of the units after trying them all out is up! Let me know what you think or if you have any questions on how it went! :)

    @Adam

    I've always liked trying to make things work, and finding off the wall builds. It's quite fun to allow my creativity to roam free. Once a good build/list is discovered, it's really fun and rewarding to play. I'm glad you like the Prince build! It took a LONG while to reach this one. I think it's one of the most promising ones for the Ring, but there's quire a few others that I've thought of that MAY work. :)

    @Aegon, @Borjnfer Wraith, @matrim, the post (#3) with the list evaluation is up. Let me know what you think!
    Where is the battle report?
    Failure is not an option.
  • Aenarion43 wrote:

    All right, modified list, that I *think* will work better overall.

    Characters:
    - Commander: Battle Standard Bearer, Master of Canreig Tower. Great Weapon, Light Armor. Essence of Mithril, Banner of the Relentless Company


    hasn’t changed


    - High Prince: General, Queen's Cavalier. Paired Weapons, Heavy Armor, Elven Horse. Ring of the Pearl Throne, Ghostly Guard, Hero's Heart.
    - Mage: Wizard Adept, Pyromancy. Talisman of the Void, Magical Heirloom.


    I like the build, but the pearl to me is a character killer. It is designed to either out survive the enemy character or kill him before he haas a chance to attack. If you feel this combo grants this, do it.


    Core:
    - Citizen Spears (x25) with Full Command and Rending Banner


    I like Banner of Ryma better. It gives the unit deapth so it can go charge, makes the unit ADV 6 on the charge, and S4 ap 1 first round of the combat. To me this is better than the rending banner. Granted, you now have AP2 for one combat, and ap 4 on the turn the enemy charges, but still wounding on 4 against res3, and if fighting orcs, warriors, daemons, and any other res4. Rending banner would be better served on swordmasters.


    - Highborn Lancers (x12) with Full Command and Banner of Speed


    Why 12? Need 3 wounds before losing a rank?


    - Citizen Archers (x10) with Musician
    Special:
    - Giant Eagle
    - Reaver Chariot
    - Reaver Chariot
    - Knights of Ryma (x12) with Full Command Group and Banner of Speed


    Again, why 12?


    - Sword Masters (x25) with Musician/Standard and Navigator's Banner
    Queen's Bows:
    - Grey Watchers (x5) with Scout and Paired weapons


    Should be paired with swordmasters and shoot at what may be charging them. It is a good combo and could mean you swap navigator banner for rending banner. If points take 2 units.

    Naval Ordinance:
    - Sea Guard Reaper
    - Sea Guard Reaper



    The rest of the list is fairly similar. I am using the same build on the Prince because I want to see how he does. I think that he has REALLY good potential, but need to try him out more. If all goes well, then on Tuesday I will be able to test the list out against a friend of mine and his Beast Herds army. It'll certainly be a better matchup than KoE with magical attacks spam (No offense, @SirMC2015)!


    No offense taken. I think SPD 10 cav is deadly and gives you the advantage. The relentless company banner helps prevent KoE issue of making a charge and being stuck with counter charges. There is a lot of points in those units and I think this list needs some fast cav more than the eagle. 2 units would be best imo.
  • @Borjnfer Wraith

    Shamed to say, I didn't write one. Combination of burning shame and trying (and failing) to get the house ready for my wife to come back from visiting her family. I have a game tomorrow that I will play (likely with the modified list) to see how it goes. I will take pictures and make a proper battle report out of that one.


    @SirMC2015

    - BSB traded in Potion of Strength for Relentless Banner to help the list's mobility.

    - I think that with Alchemy it had the best chance of doing so due to a combination of volume of attacks and re-rolls to wound. Whether that remains the same without Alchemy remains to be seen. Other options for "Killing enemies" are Shield Breaker and Blessed Inscriptions, but each of them have their downsides (Breaker is OS7 and has lower damage ceiling at only 5 attacks on the charge, Inscriptions can't reach a 1+ with a Great Weapon (the mandatory weapon for Inscriptions to matter). It may be that the correct call actually IS to have Alchemy onboard, and then sacrifice the some Lancers for more archers. We shall see how it goes. One idea that I had here was to simply trade one of the alchemy spells for Molten Copper, as it would have decent (though nowhere near as good as it used to) chaff clearing potential. Alternately, upgrading to a Master and going deeper into the magic aspect may be the correct call, thus allowing me to have an extra "anti-monster" spell (Spike) and an anti-chaff spell (Copper) while maintaining the two buffs. One of my concerns moving to Pyromancy is the low(ish) number of defensive spells.

    - On Lancers, hit it in one. Personally I don't think they are good enough for a medium unit. It has to be either a large bus (For breaking steadfast) or a minimum dart for scoring and anti-chaff purposes. I don't think that the mid-size version (5-10) works out. Admittedly, it may be correct to add in a few minimum size units specifically FOR chaff/anti-chaff purposes. In that case, the correct call is likely to put the Relentless Banner on either Spears OR Sword Masters (since the BSB carries the other unit forward) to be able to essentially shoot everything up on turn 1 and have chaff barriers for my units.

    - Knights of Ryma: Same deal. Having those ablative wounds help keep the unit and army in the fight longer. More importantly, if my enemy has only stubborn/unbreakable units, then simply making them as wide as possible and taking advantage of their damage output is a viable strategy (my nastiest result so far was once when I packed a unit of 12 KoR, 7 wide, with a Cavalier Prince and Cavalier BSB. Needless to say, my opponent's unit vanished in short order.

    - I agree on the Grey Watchers. I *should* have used them that way instead of trying to get cute with them. In all my previous games, I had had big bad Warmachines to fear, so I'd used them close to the swordies to protect them while targeting warmachines. I think that is their best use. :)

    - Given your thought on Fast Cavalry, do you think that having 2 minimum units of Highborn Lancers is better? More vulnerable to Lash, but they are MUCH harder to clear, and can pack quite a bit more punch when they charge than some Fast Cavalry.
    My army has rocks, papers, and scissors. The reason you lost this war is that you thought we were playing checkers at every battle. - Anon. Highborn Elf Prince.
    Highborn Master of the Infantry and aspiring Equitaininan Champion of the Lady.

    Playtester

    DL Army Community Support

  • Feign flight comes in handy at times, and at LD8, less to fear that they don’t rally and get back into the fight. You can place fast cav close enough to chaff, and a unit behind them for them to bounce through, and far enough away not to be charged. Then they rally and protect the units that just counter charged the failed charge. There are several tricks involved, but a very successful tactics. Also grants vanguards and if you get 1st turn that is 30” move turn 1.
  • Okay, I need help with writing the battle report.

    I have pictures of the game, and am all ready to go over what happened and tag my opponent to get his views. I just don't know how to get the pictures to show up in the text so that it cuts through the text at the right points. Help, please?
    My army has rocks, papers, and scissors. The reason you lost this war is that you thought we were playing checkers at every battle. - Anon. Highborn Elf Prince.
    Highborn Master of the Infantry and aspiring Equitaininan Champion of the Lady.

    Playtester

    DL Army Community Support

  • Aenarion43 wrote:

    Okay, I need help with writing the battle report.

    I have pictures of the game, and am all ready to go over what happened and tag my opponent to get his views. I just don't know how to get the pictures to show up in the text so that it cuts through the text at the right points. Help, please?
    I upload to Imgur then insert the picture links into image tags [IMG][/IMG]