The road to 205 - Chapters of the Week: 5 - 6 (community)

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  • The road to 205 - Chapters of the Week: 5 - 6 (community)

    During this week, we'd like to ask you to have a close look at chapters 5 and 6 of the rulebook, i.e. 5 Characteristics and 6 Setting up a Game.

    Please follow the general instructions you can find in this thread.

    The deadline for these 2 chapters will be next Sunday, June 10th.

    Looking forward to your feedback!
  • There's an inconsistency between

    6.B.c.1 0-X Items per Army
    and
    6.B.c.2 One of a Kind

    In the first section "items" are used to mean a thing in the game (including units, upgrades, models, etc. etc.) while in the second it is used as distinct from units and upgrades. This can be confusing for someone scanning the rulebook trying to find where a rule is written down.

    I suggest changing every use of "items" in the first segment to "entries" or "things" or alternatively changing the second segment to
    6.B.c.2 One of a Kind
    Units, upgrades, and itemsequipment marked as One of a Kind may only be taken once per army. This is not changed forWarbands or Grand Armies


    Other than that, I feel that these chapters are impressively clearly written. Well done

    The post was edited 1 time, last by vegetalss4 ().

  • vegetalss4 wrote:

    There's an inconsistency between

    6.B.c.1 0-X Items per Army
    and
    6.B.c.2 One of a Kind

    In the first section "items" are used to mean a thing in the game (including units, upgrades, models, etc. etc.) while in the second it is used as distinct from units and upgrades. This can be confusing for someone scanning the rulebook trying to find where a rule is written down.

    I suggest changing every use of "items" in the first segment to "entries" or "things" or alternatively changing the second segment to
    6.B.c.2 One of a Kind
    Units, upgrades, and itemsequipment marked as One of a Kind may only be taken once per army. This is not changed forWarbands or Grand Armies


    Other than that, I feel that these chapters are impressively clearly written. Well done
    Thanks!
    Yeah, you're right. Guess that's a leftover from back when pieces of special equipment were still called magical items ;) .
    We'll adjust the wording.
  • BRB 204 wrote:

    6.B.b.1 Characrers

    This Army Category always has a maximum amount of points that can be spent on it, usually around 40 % of the Army Points.


    6.B.b.2 Core

    This Army Category always has a minimum amount of points that must be spent on it, usually around 25 % of the Army Points.
    I would drop both 'around' adverbs. I would consider adding in the bullet list for Characters information that an army must include at least one character - the General (with hyperlink to 6.B.c.4).
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  • JimMorr wrote:

    BRB 204 wrote:

    6.B.b.1 Characrers

    This Army Category always has a maximum amount of points that can be spent on it, usually around 40 % of the Army Points.


    6.B.b.2 Core

    This Army Category always has a minimum amount of points that must be spent on it, usually around 25 % of the Army Points.
    I would drop both 'around' adverbs. I would consider adding in the bullet list for Characters information that an army must include at least one character - the General (with hyperlink to 6.B.c.4).
    Yeah, I agree.

    "Usually" and "around" are somewhat redundant.
    And regarding characters, since we mention the maximum that can be spent on that category, it would make sense to also mention the minimum (in the form of at least one character).
  • Personally I find it rather counter-intuitive that battlefield setup is not part of the "Setting Up a Game" chapter.

    After all, isn't setting up the table with terrain and stuff also part of the setup?
    It's where I looked first when looking for terrain specifics.

    And I guess it's for the review of Chapter 7 - but I would also incude all terrain features and such in what is now 7.C instead of making it a totally different Chapter 18. The more relevant information is put together, the better.
    This forum need polls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Playing/painting: SA, DE & HbE ..

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Teowulff ().

  • Teowulff wrote:

    Personally I find it rather counter-intuitive that battlefield setup is not part of the "Setting Up a Game" chapter.

    After all, isn't setting up the table with terrain and stuff also part of the setup?
    It's where I looked first when looking for terrain specifics.
    Yeah, the title of chapter 6 is off, I think we should change it. Chapter 6 isn't actually about "Setting up a Game", but rather about building an army or writing an army list. We'll change it to something more fitting.

    Teowulff wrote:

    And I guess it's for the review of Chapter 7 - but I would also incude all terrain features and such in what is now 7.C instead of making it a totally different Chapter 18. The more relevant information is put together, the better.
    In any case we need a reference to the terrain chapter here. I'm not sure it's the right place to include the entire terrain chapter in here, as it's a lot of information for one of the initial chapters, and some of this information refers to rules that will only be explained later in the BRB. Personally I like having a separate terrain chapter.
    But this can be discussed in the next Chapters of the Week thread (which I'll set up later today).
  • Hi,

    I would clarify the (somewhat complicated, but I guess we need the exact precision here) rules for priority of modifiers. For me the table with 4 priorities was be a bit misleading and I spent a while reading the text a few times to get whether it's 'apply the modifiers starting from order no 1 down to order 4' or 'no 1 is the most important and shouldn't be changed by the next numbers'. You could add a simple example after the table, something like this below:

    5.D Priority of Modifiers

    [Table 1]

    Example
    If a model is affected by the following rules: “Attacks made with this weapon are set to hit on 4+.”
    and “The model's attacks gain +1 to hit.”, first apply the set modifier and then the +1 modifier, i.e. the final result would be a hit on 3+.

    Or maybe change the current text above the table a bit:
    Current text:
    The modifiers of Characteristics, dice rolls, or other values are applied in a strict order (whenever you see the terms
    set/borrow/always/never used in bold in such a modifier, this is indicative for its priority), following table 1
    below:

    My proposal:
    If any Characteristic, dice roll or other value is affected by more than one modifier, apply them in the order given by the following Table 1. First apply modifers listed in row no 1, than apply modifiers listed in row no 2 to the result and so on.
  • krzechu wrote:

    Hi,

    I would clarify the (somewhat complicated, but I guess we need the exact precision here) rules for priority of modifiers. For me the table with 4 priorities was be a bit misleading and I spent a while reading the text a few times to get whether it's 'apply the modifiers starting from order no 1 down to order 4' or 'no 1 is the most important and shouldn't be changed by the next numbers'. You could add a simple example after the table, something like this below:

    5.D Priority of Modifiers

    [Table 1]

    Example
    If a model is affected by the following rules: “Attacks made with this weapon are set to hit on 4+.”
    and “The model's attacks gain +1 to hit.”, first apply the set modifier and then the +1 modifier, i.e. the final result would be a hit on 3+.

    Or maybe change the current text above the table a bit:
    Current text:
    The modifiers of Characteristics, dice rolls, or other values are applied in a strict order (whenever you see the terms
    set/borrow/always/never used in bold in such a modifier, this is indicative for its priority), following table 1
    below:

    My proposal:
    If any Characteristic, dice roll or other value is affected by more than one modifier, apply them in the order given by the following Table 1. First apply modifers listed in row no 1, than apply modifiers listed in row no 2 to the result and so on.
    I like the clarification, and adding an example (or two) after the prioritiy of modifiers is a good idea, too.
  • I think there might not be a line in the book which says that every R&F model in a unit must be equipped the same way.

    Closest things are:
    3.B Units - says "Whenever a rule, ability, spell, and so on affects a unit, all models in the unit are affected." But are equipment any of those?
    6.A.a Point Costs - Does mention Options, but doesn't say that all R&F must use the same stuff.
    6.D How to Read Unit Entries - Maybe this isn't an oversight, and it will be mentioned in this section once finished?
  • Jarec wrote:

    I think there might not be a line in the book which says that every R&F model in a unit must be equipped the same way.

    Closest things are:
    3.B Units - says "Whenever a rule, ability, spell, and so on affects a unit, all models in the unit are affected." But are equipment any of those?
    6.A.a Point Costs - Does mention Options, but doesn't say that all R&F must use the same stuff.
    6.D How to Read Unit Entries - Maybe this isn't an oversight, and it will be mentioned in this section once finished?
    Just noticed your post slipped through ;) .

    You're right, this is not explicitely mentioned. But I don't think there is an option for R&F models in a unit to have different equipment, is there?

    There is however a rule that states that all R&F models have to use the same weapon:

    <
    21.E.a.1 Choosing a Close Combat Weapon
    If a model has more than one Close Combat Weapon, it must choose which one to use in the First Round of Combat, at step 2 of the Round of Combat Sequence. It must then continue to use the same weapon for the duration of that combat. All R&F models in a unit must always choose the same Close Combat Weapon, unless they are forced to use enchanted weapons.
    >
  • Eisenheinrich wrote:

    You're right, this is not explicitely mentioned. But I don't think there is an option for R&F models in a unit to have different equipment, is there?


    There is however a rule that states that all R&F models have to use the same weapon:

    <
    21.E.a.1 Choosing a Close Combat Weapon
    If a model has more than one Close Combat Weapon, it must choose which one to use in the First Round of Combat, at step 2 of the Round of Combat Sequence. It must then continue to use the same weapon for the duration of that combat. All R&F models in a unit must always choose the same Close Combat Weapon, unless they are forced to use enchanted weapons.
    >
    Sorry, I meant more the amount of stuff they are equipped with.
    Let me give you an example (which prompted me to look such a line in the book in the first place): a BIG seven wide Infernal Warrior unit with only 7 shields bought (for the first rank) and 14 Blunderbusses (for the double rank shot), and the rest of them giving just rank bonuses to combat score and BB shooting.
  • Jarec wrote:

    Sorry, I meant more the amount of stuff they are equipped with.
    Let me give you an example (which prompted me to look such a line in the book in the first place): a BIG seven wide Infernal Warrior unit with only 7 shields bought (for the first rank) and 14 Blunderbusses (for the double rank shot), and the rest of them giving just rank bonuses to combat score and BB shooting.
    I see. We're still working on the "How to read unit entries" section. We'll make sure to include that information there.