The second trial!

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  • The second trial!

    @Masamune88, @Calcathin, @PapaG, @Vespacian, @Aegon, @ArchangelusM, @Giladis, @AlexCat, @ferny, @Emgies, @Adam, @cptcosmic, @Borjnfer Wraith, @Noldor, @Balgoth, @Squirrelloid, @Riismanden, @Archeron, @Apex jonas, @Arhain, @Nicreap, @20phoenix

    Gentlemen, THE SECOND TRIAL BEGINS!

    The First Trial is SLIHGTLY stalled due to my regular opponents having been caught in real life for the moment, thus failing to find different opponent types to play against. Given that I have a game against @SirMC2015 tonight, I figured that I could start a second labor. Testing the same Prince against the Same Duke wouldn't be all that enlightening, after all!

    Out of the many things that were chosen in the thread for "The Labors of Aenarion43", my next choice for Purification By Fire is the Fleet Officer On Foot. As I mentioned in the first trial, trying to get EVERYTHING to work in one list would be a horrible failure and PAINFUL. I know because it already happened to me once. So each thing gets its own list to try and make it work. Who knows if some will eventually be combined or prove to be successful in games. However, for now, each thing gets tried out by itself to make sure that it can be made to work. If it is successful, then it will have a body of evidence proving that it can be used to success.

    As before, My area plays at 5000 points. The lists I make SHOULD be fairly easy to modify into 4500, as @20phoenix proved with my Ring of the Pearl Throne build (which I am excited to hear how it does at Shifting Tides!). Now that Brawler Bash is past, it may go down to 4500. However, many of us have found that we have a LOT more fun at 5k. Given that many of my regular opponents have the view of "we want to have FUN", it is FAR more likely that we will play at 5k despite brawler bash being over.


    So here's my (5000 point) list for the Fleet Officer On Foot:
    Characters:
    - High Prince: MoCT, Essence of Mithril, Blessed Inscriptions Great Weapon, Book of Arcane Mastery
    - High Prince: Fleet Officer, General, Heavy Armor/Shield/Spear, Protection of Dorac, Willow's Ward, Sliver of the Blazing Dawn, Lucky Charm
    - Mage: Wizard Master, Cosmology, Asfad Scholar, Book of Meladys, Talisman of the Void

    Core:
    - Archers x20, Musician
    - Spears x25, Muso/Std (War Banner)
    - Reavers (Bows) x5
    - Lancers x5, Musician

    Queen's Bows:
    - Queen's Guard x10, Standard (Banner of Becalming)

    Special:
    - Giant Eagle
    - Sword Masters (x24), FCG, War Banner of Ryma
    - Lion Guard (x24), FCG, Navigator's Banner


    So here's my thoughts on the choices:
    1) Statistically, a Di10 Cold Blooded Check is equivalent to Ld10 + BSB basically (Both are >95% chance of success). So the true value of the Fleet Officer is running as a general in a way that lets you put those BSB points into something more useful. Hence, my general is a Fleet Officer with the usual combat picks of Dorac, Willow, and Dawn. The Lucky Charm is present because it is useful AND points filler. I'd have loved to cut an extra 9 points to give my Shootin' Gals a Musician, but I couldn't figure out how. I honestly had nowhere else where I could cut a few points to make it happen. But oh well. At least it gets me SOME use.

    2) Wizard Master + MoCT, combined with Talisman of the Void and Becalming, gives me pseudo Channel 4, while reducing enemy's channel by 1. That's fairly big, and has the potential to essentially "Drop" a magic dice more than twice (even though it only steals one token per turn). The combination of Channel + Spell variety is HUGE. Having an anti-armor spell (Lash) and an anti-chaff spell (Ice/Fire) is useful at range to supplement my QG and Archers. The combination of defensive and offensive combat buffs AND utility buffs is BIG for making my opponent struggle at the dispel.

    3) MoCT w/ Mastery: Gives me the chance to threaten Meladys on a 7+ to cast, which means "it happens about 60% of the time on 2d6". That's kind of huge because of the threat it projects even leaving 2 dice up at the end of the turn. The mind game is STRONG with this option, and more than once I have gotten spells through that were BAD for my opponent BECAUSE of the threat of a 2 dice meladys. The 2+/Blessed Inscriptions gives him a pretty decent fighting ability and defense against rank and file. The high amount of magical defense also helps with keeping him alive (admittedly, I'd much prefer he had Word Of Iron and other defensive spells over Lash and the rest of his selection, but Oh well).

    4) Lion Guard become stubborn with FlOffer, and have good survivability at range. Defensive magic can be focused on the sword masters as needed. Both units are offensive as all get out, but gain some snazzy power from offensive boosts as well. The spears having the ability to double up on +1S/+1AP on top of Ryma Banner makes it REALLY good. S5 AP charging, or S4 AP3 on the charge most often.

    Overall, I really like the potential to play "no BSB", and find it fairly awesome that it's a possibility. Whether or not it pans out. . . . we shall see.
    My army has rocks, papers, and scissors. The reason you lost this war is that you thought we were playing checkers at every battle. - Anon. Highborn Elf Prince.
    Highborn Master of the Infantry and aspiring Equitaininan Champion of the Lady.

    Playtester

    DL Army Community Support

  • Either Switch your Mus from your Spears to your Sisters, (they will make much better use of it) or lose the Reavers bows and the Lucky Charm.
    Personally, I would switch the banners between the LG and the SM, because I think it is more important to get my monster killers into a desperate fight with a Monster, they just might need that extra movement to get there.
    You are using the latest rules right?
    Failure is not an option.
  • Reaver Bows and Muso on Spears is coming from Core. So no dice because I am exact.

    Option would be to drop champ from Lion guard or Sword Masters for it.
    My army has rocks, papers, and scissors. The reason you lost this war is that you thought we were playing checkers at every battle. - Anon. Highborn Elf Prince.
    Highborn Master of the Infantry and aspiring Equitaininan Champion of the Lady.

    Playtester

    DL Army Community Support

  • Just my two cents, I think wizard Master is overkill and you don’t have enough shooting for 5k. I’d drop the master to an adept, drop asfahad and the book, the lucky charm and a sister . You free up enough points for two bolters and it doesn’t materially diminish your magic phase (same channels, still dual strength buffs and magic missile) and it would take your shooting up significantly.

    -Vesp
  • @Vespacian You are correct that the Master was overkill. Going to try again with Adept + MoCT Prince. I have to rejigger the units around to get what I want. Not sure how that will look at the end of the day. I will post an updated list once I've had time to ponder the conundrum. I think that you are right that some of our "medium shooting" needs to be in there. Kind of stinks that by the time you end up filling all the requirements for a good list (chaff, anti-chaff, medium shooting, magic), you're up the creek for points for decent size combat blocks. I'll have to see what I can figure out. Definitely don't want to touch the Lions. Their stubborn is a BIG Lynchpin for me.

    @matrim
    An adept mage helps a LOT in redundancy. The opponent having to deal with two +1S/+1AP spells and the hereditary makes for a REALLY bad magic phase for your opponent. However, I can see your point. It will depend on how useful the Adept Mage is for me in my next attempt. As to the 4th shock unit, the main issue is that I then have to choose what shock unit takes a hit and how much. Not a fun choice to make, but we shall see where it ends up.

    To all,
    I *REALLY* liked that MoCT prince build. Decent enough in combat (nearly took down the final wound of a Crusader's Armor Grail Duke thanks to hitting on 2's (Altered sight) and wounding on 2's (Beast Within, Strength Form). He won't be slaughtering dedicated combat Lords on his own, but can take down hero level combat characters without too much difficulty. For the Lord Level dudes, that is where you have the FlOffer with the Sliver. He CAN kill those guys. As to the magic potential, being able to cast any of his 5 spells with a +2 is a heck of a good thing. Most people will flip out at a Hereditary that is cast on a 7+, and will burn "More than 2 dice" (most I've gotten is 5 in one try) to stop it. This then frees you up to take advantage of Master of Spellcraft to really kick butt.

    PS. Anyone have any ideas for what we can use to handle A duke with Crusader's Armor, Tristran's Resolve, Potion of Speed, and Virtue of Renown? Even my FlOffer Prince couldn't actually kill him AND if he touches you you lose the Sliver! The fact that he's I10 when charging or I9 when charged (the same as your dude) that first round of combat (which is when he's popping the potion of speed) is hardcore. I honestly can't think of anything in our book capable of killing him without risking dying without doing the job.
    My army has rocks, papers, and scissors. The reason you lost this war is that you thought we were playing checkers at every battle. - Anon. Highborn Elf Prince.
    Highborn Master of the Infantry and aspiring Equitaininan Champion of the Lady.

    Playtester

    DL Army Community Support

  • Aenarion43 wrote:

    I *REALLY* liked that MoCT prince build. Decent enough in combat (nearly took down the final wound of a Crusader's Armor Grail Duke thanks to hitting on 2's (Altered sight) and wounding on 2's (Beast Within, Strength Form). He won't be slaughtering dedicated combat Lords on his own, but can take down hero level combat characters without too much difficulty. For the Lord Level dudes, that is where you have the FlOffer with the Sliver. He CAN kill those guys. As to the magic potential, being able to cast any of his 5 spells with a +2 is a heck of a good thing. Most people will flip out at a Hereditary that is cast on a 7+, and will burn "More than 2 dice" (most I've gotten is 5 in one try) to stop it. This then frees you up to take advantage of Master of Spellcraft to really kick butt.
    I agree the build looks good. It's either that one, or dorac, lucky charm and spear - both are solid. I think the MoCT prince is in a very good spot design wise.