How to get new players (ex. "I'm afraid this game has no way of getting any new players.")

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  • The game needs to scale or theres gonna be different games its that simple. We were playing 5k here until some months back when we switched to 4.5k. Now were going back to 5k. These are literally different games. One is more msu less character support with hard caps on many things, the other.. is not. Because of the razor edge control on balancing theres currently only 4.5k or "for funsies". Not like say 40k 7th edition when we could run cutthroat tournaments at 1k and 1250 and the game scaled to match that.
    AVOIDANCE FAILS 28% OF THE TIME FOLKS. -SE
    Undying Deathstar Construction Inc.
  • In terms of complexity scaling I think there should be a core rules document that's a bit shorter than the current quickstarter rules. There might even be two versions of this: one for beginners, and one for "reference" that's even shorter.

    There would be some basic army books that are substantially more detailed than the current quickstarter, they would allow you to play all models in the army, but they would still be quite short, ~5 pages.

    This would be the base game. A 20 page rulebook and a number of 5 page long army books.

    The base game would lack options, synergies etc. But you would be able to read 25 pages and build an army.

    Expansions.

    The base game would be scaled in complexity by adding expansions. These would come in different rarities, like card rarities in a CCG. Since T9A is mostly played from PDF files at the moment, you could brew up a PDF with whatever expansions you want. Most likely ypu would play with one of the following setups:

    • just the basic game
    • all epic expansions
    • all epic and legendary expansions


    For example, magic might be an "epic" expansion that adds spells, spellcasters and arcane items.

    Most special rules like orders (EoS), ambush, warcry, etcetera would go into a series of "epic" expansions that takes us almost up to the complexity level of today's game.

    Concepts that are beyond the current level of complexity, or are considered niche would go into legendary expansions. Exotic terrain, special characters, sieges, askander barbarians, mercenaries ...

    Physical books for sale in stores would probably be base game books, i.e. no expansions, and they would be filled out with more explanation and more fluff; so basically similar to QuickStarter today.

    Physical books up to any level would be available to order from print-on-demand services.

    The expansion system would be fully additive, unlike the relationship between the full game and quickstarter is today. No expansion would "undo" anything from a lower level.

    Advantages

    Thinking of the game as a series of layers or base + epic expansions + legendary expansions means that players can choose the level they want to play at. It's a smooth transition pathway for a beginner, but a veteran of 8e could jump in halfway along. The strict ETC tournament game can exist at the full "epic" level, but people who want to experiment have something official above that.

    Additivity is a feature of almost every modern game I can think of. X-wing, M:tG, hearthstone, ... . This is probably for a good reason: you give people complexity in a smooth progression, and they don't have to unlearn anything.
  • the issue with optional modules is that the balance of point costs partly gets lost.

    New or changed rules normally would create the need to adjust point costs of all relevant units.

    Though for casual play the detailed point costing might be irrelevant.
    Your basic idea is exactly what enables to create homebrew alternative rule sets...and maybe some to become official....and that very much matches to my vision of how T9A should develop.

    Quick Starter Team

    Playtester


  • I think the QS is as close as we can to do this without major modifications to the full rules (which is just not going to happen this far into 2.0).
    I think Aligning closer to your vision is a good idea for any 3.0 version we make.


    DJWoodelf wrote:

    Your basic idea is exactly what enables to create homebrew alternative rule sets...and maybe some to become official....and that very much matches to my vision of how T9A should develop.
    I agree. The homebrew is a sandbox environment where people can put ideas up for public playtesting and feedback.
    If it works well and has a good reception it is worth rolling into the 'official' package. There is no point in the team reinventing the wheel. If there are good design ideas in the homebrew, we should adopt them. I hope that happens as we go through the FAB rewrites.

    Head of Lectors

    Quick Starter Team

  • New

    Hi guys,

    Sorry if this is stepping out of the subject, but I've just been confronted to a situation for bringing new players and I wish to get some advice.

    I just met a group of very active players of WHB 8th ed (like 1-3 games a week). I did a game against the "group leader", really nice guy, it was a cool game with soft lists. I did not play too hard also so it ended in a draw, everything fine.

    The guy told me he likes it, runs smooth, he is a bit disapointed of unit size limitations (he likes to play huge blocks). But overall he quite likes the version and told me he will talk to his friends and discuss to switch to T9A.

    Few days later, we end up discussing on FB where he tells me all his mates are sceptical about 9th age, mainly because of all the "fun removal".

    Any advice on how to convice them, as 8th edition fans ?
  • New

    Scorbol wrote:

    Hi guys,

    Sorry if this is stepping out of the subject, but I've just been confronted to a situation for bringing new players and I wish to get some advice.

    I just met a group of very active players of WHB 8th ed (like 1-3 games a week). I did a game against the "group leader", really nice guy, it was a cool game with soft lists. I did not play too hard also so it ended in a draw, everything fine.

    The guy told me he likes it, runs smooth, he is a bit disapointed of unit size limitations (he likes to play huge blocks). But overall he quite likes the version and told me he will talk to his friends and discuss to switch to T9A.

    Few days later, we end up discussing on FB where he tells me all his mates are sceptical about 9th age, mainly because of all the "fun removal".

    Any advice on how to convice them, as 8th edition fans ?
    Do they like third party minis (ie non gw?) do they like wild conversions? Do they like going to tournaments? Would they like to do so one day,there will be very few if any 8th ed tournies and plenty of t9a ones. Have you showed them the hobby blogs on this forum? There is plenty to draw in new players but if they dont want be convinced, as yhandros says, there is little you can do
    Take a look at my painted army so far. Feel free to share a pic of yours!

    Pics of my ever expanding warriors army
  • New

    Scorbol wrote:

    Hi guys,

    Sorry if this is stepping out of the subject, but I've just been confronted to a situation for bringing new players and I wish to get some advice.

    I just met a group of very active players of WHB 8th ed (like 1-3 games a week). I did a game against the "group leader", really nice guy, it was a cool game with soft lists. I did not play too hard also so it ended in a draw, everything fine.

    The guy told me he likes it, runs smooth, he is a bit disapointed of unit size limitations (he likes to play huge blocks). But overall he quite likes the version and told me he will talk to his friends and discuss to switch to T9A.

    Few days later, we end up discussing on FB where he tells me all his mates are sceptical about 9th age, mainly because of all the "fun removal".

    Any advice on how to convice them, as 8th edition fans ?
    To be blunt I go through phases where I feel like that too. BUT! We tend to forget all the positives and the main one is the sheer diversity of options which are now available. I'm sitting next to my curio full of models right now and literally every single unit I own is playable and most are competitive. I have units 3 wide (koe cav AND UD chariots), 4x1 (UD chariots) 7x2 (OnG cav), 4x2 (shabtis and oni's) 5x4 (UD skellies) 5x3 (necro guard) 5x8 (peasants and goblins) 8x5 (peasant and goblin spears) 7x4 (forlorns and samurai) 7x3 (sumo) 8x2 (various archers) and well you get the idea. 8th edition can't hold a candle to the unit size, diversity, etc.
    Ask him to look into some of the units he always wanted to play in 8th but couldn't find a reason because they sucked.. odds are high those units were fixed in 9th.

    If your friend wants to play big blocks in 9th go ahead because its here too.. for specific purpose. And steadfast is too only its not pseudo unbreakable and at the same time large units aren't as much a liability due to less game ending bombs. Also very little of the super annoying sniper spells you must design your characters around in 8th.

    If hes played 6th or 7th let him know 9th has actively incorporated much of the good parts of those systems into the good parts of 8th.

    The options of 8th is more a mirage. And then he needs to consider most armies in 9th have upwards of 12 items and/or other special upgrades vs the very limited AB items of 8th.

    Honestly 8th sucked.. unless you either didn't play to break things and/or didn't play any other edition.

    Lastly if they are doing legacy anyway and they miss things like templates and hidden then there is no reason not to bring those back into your games of 9th. My group sometimes b*tches about these things but ya know what we never ever talk about bringing them back lol.
    AVOIDANCE FAILS 28% OF THE TIME FOLKS. -SE
    Undying Deathstar Construction Inc.
  • New

    Scorbol wrote:

    Hi guys,

    Sorry if this is stepping out of the subject, but I've just been confronted to a situation for bringing new players and I wish to get some advice.

    I just met a group of very active players of WHB 8th ed (like 1-3 games a week). I did a game against the "group leader", really nice guy, it was a cool game with soft lists. I did not play too hard also so it ended in a draw, everything fine.

    The guy told me he likes it, runs smooth, he is a bit disapointed of unit size limitations (he likes to play huge blocks). But overall he quite likes the version and told me he will talk to his friends and discuss to switch to T9A.

    Few days later, we end up discussing on FB where he tells me all his mates are sceptical about 9th age, mainly because of all the "fun removal".

    Any advice on how to convice them, as 8th edition fans ?
    The key here is to find out what the 'fun is' they're talking about.

    List variety is fun
    Viable fluff lists is fun
    Model freedom is fun

    etc..

    The key to show them is that if they are playing pickup 'for fun' games, there is a ton of stuff they are welcome to play in the homebrew. the scenario packs, magic items, themed army books, etc... a lot of it is balanced decently too.

    As I've said, the game is DIY wargaming. We provide a balanced foundation for gamers to build upon if they choose.
    Write up a scenario based around their armies with some fun fluffy things that happen. GAME MASTER the game (don't play it, run it).
    Show them the matches from the 9th scroll that tony and paul did with their VC and EoS armies.

    Some people have fun with crazy broken rules full of vague explanations that cause rules issues - they are fine to add that into their pickup games if they want to.

    Highlight the DIY community attitude. highlight that we not only want them to come up with fun fluffy scenarios and magic, etc... but we want them to share it with us. If I was playing 2-3 games per week (Lousy adulthood with its job and responsibilities to my family) I would totally be playing a lot of stuff from homebrew.

    Lastly - only the WDG have a full book. The Slim AB's are not the final product, they are placeholders that are meant to hold us over for a year.

    TLDR; Find out what specific 'fun' they are talking about, highlight all the good that T9A brings to the table, highlight that we want their ideas and we want them to be shared, and use this to overcome their desire for built-in /always allowed whacky & broken rules. Remind them that we have a bunch of new books to release, and that by participating their voices can be heard.

    Head of Lectors

    Quick Starter Team

  • New

    Scorbol wrote:

    Hi guys,

    Sorry if this is stepping out of the subject, but I've just been confronted to a situation for bringing new players and I wish to get some advice.

    I just met a group of very active players of WHB 8th ed (like 1-3 games a week). I did a game against the "group leader", really nice guy, it was a cool game with soft lists. I did not play too hard also so it ended in a draw, everything fine.

    The guy told me he likes it, runs smooth, he is a bit disapointed of unit size limitations (he likes to play huge blocks). But overall he quite likes the version and told me he will talk to his friends and discuss to switch to T9A.

    Few days later, we end up discussing on FB where he tells me all his mates are sceptical about 9th age, mainly because of all the "fun removal".

    Any advice on how to convice them, as 8th edition fans ?
    See if you can make them get some games in. If they don't like it I don't think there really is much more you can do. Mabye try older versions like 1.1, at the end of the day: different strokes for different folks.
  • New

    Lord Temnir wrote:

    So, today I have played with a former 8th player in one of the local shops. He liked the game very much. Additionally, some "random guy" dropped by, telling us he used to play WHFB as well but hasn't seen anyone playing for ages.

    I just wanted to share my success, so don't bother to look for another meaning in post! :D
    grab one of these:

    staples.com/Staples-Superior-I…1-2-590601/product_511465

    And put the following in it:

    and use an on demand print service to make them into business cards to go in the pocket.

    I bring it with me to the store every time. People keep taking them :)

    Head of Lectors

    Quick Starter Team

  • New

    Thanks for the advices guys. I'm happy to see some constructive feedback.

    I know that "fun" is subjective, but I've been hearing this argument a lot against T9A. I know this was a subject of debate for a while and I don't wish to bring it back.

    But there is definitely some work to be done in that matter.

    What they actually told me when I said that T9A made every unit playable is : "they could have just balanced unit points cost and removed OP stuff like broken spells, etc. But they should not have messed with rules that reduces the fun".

    I'm just bringing some recent feedback from people outside T9A to see if it could help improve. Please don't crush my skull :)
  • New

    Fair point. Many odd rules of WH find no equivalent in T9A.

    One reason is that not everyone found them funny, especially if they impacted reliability. Best example is Greenskins in-fighting animosity.

    Another reason is to be OP or hard to balance.
    Or to introduce some complexity for little tactical gain, or very few occurrences.

    All good reasons everyone should praise.

    Unfortunately it took away some of the soul. ;(
    We noticed that internally.
    Many wish more "fun".

    Social Media Team

    UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

    - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves