QuickStarter 2.0 // DE Standard/Regular Army list

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  • QuickStarter 2.0 // DE Standard/Regular Army list

    Hey and welcome back to part 2 of the re-work for the DE Quickstarter army list!



    Once again the QuickStarter team would like to have some feedback from you guys on how to re-work

    The DE Quickstarter Standard/Regular Army List.




    Before we are getting startet, some basic background information:




    First of all the Quickstarter lists are used for introducing new players to the 9th age.



    We will have the following army lists per army in the Quickstarter:


    1. Sample Army list
    1-2 characters and 2-4 non-character units

    (Already finished in a diffrent thread)

    See: QuickStarter 2.0 // DE Sample Army list


    2. Standard army lists
    Target: 2 characters and 6 non-character units

    (This ist the army list we are currently working on!!)


    3. 1-3 Themed army lists
    Structure like standard army list

    (These will be finished after working on the Standard Army Lists)





    In this thread we will work only on the Standard/Regular Army List for DE!




    The QS Standard Army List is an up-graded version of the Sample Army List mentioned above.

    The Regular Army List consists of 2 characters and 6 non-character units incl. at least two core units.

    Core choices. The QS game size will be around 900 - 2500 pts. Those point cost don´t mean
    the exact same points of the FB army books. Reason behind that is that a lot of special rules are non-existent in the QS.


    Most entries are therefore cheaper. Since all elven armys depend quite strongly on their special rules this is an important point to keep in mind!

    Other than that it is important to know that the units which were chosen for the sample army list will automatically be included in the Standard Army List.
    Another difference to the Sample Army List is that it is possible for the Standard Army list to chose from different pre-set unit sizes depending on the
    scale of the game.





    The current QS 1.1 DE Standard Army list includes the following:





    1x Oracle (Character choice, also part of the QS Sample Army list)
    1x Assassin (Character choice)

    Corsairs (Core choice, also part of the QS Sample Army list)
    - Either 10 Models
    - or 20 Models

    Dark Raiders (Core choice, also part of the QS Sample Army list)
    - 5 Models

    Tower Guard (Special choice, also part of the QS Sample Army list)
    - Either 5 Models,
    - 10 Models
    - or 17 Models

    1x Divine Altar (Special choice)

    1x Dread Reaper (Destroyers choice)

    1x Hydra (The Menagerie choice )





    Since the Oracle, Corsairs, Dark Raiders and Tower Guard are already part oft the DE Sample Army list they will not be
    changed for different unit choices for the DE Standad Army List.
    The Assassin, Divine Altar, Dread Reaper and Hydra are open for discussion and can therefor be changed
    for any unit entry you would like to see.



    So once again, if you fell dissatisfied with the current list please feel free to make your own suggestions, additionaly
    please focus on iconicity, fun, fluff, ease of buying, ease of painting when making suggestions.

    After some feedback from you guys there will (likely) be a poll to finally decide the upgraded DE Standard/Regular Army List.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Zeitgeiszt ().

  • I like all the choices except the altar and only because the rules for it are so complicated. Maybe downgrade it to a raptor or hunting chariot? Other than that, all are good choices.

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  • It really depends on how complex you want the rules interactions to be in the army. The Altar is the single most complex unit in the entire Dread Elf faction, so as iconic as it is for the army I'm not sure how good an idea it is to use it as an example of play. I know the quick-start rules are heavily simplified, but the complexity of the piece means that it's either extremely difficult for a new player to use or stripped down to the point that including it would heavily misrepresent its role in the army in the full rules.

    If I were setting up the list, to give both a good idea of the feel of Dread Elves and a useful assortment of different unit types to teach the game to a new player, I'd go with:

    -Assassin
    -Oracle

    -Corsairs (20 models, Paired Weapons)
    -Dark Raiders (5 models, Repeater Crossbows)

    -Tower Guard (10 models)
    -Raptor Chariot

    -Dread Reaper

    -Hydra

    This gives us a wide variety of units to demonstrate. A rank-and-file unit with numbers and decent defence as an Anvil, an elite infantry unit with few models and powerful offence, a multi-part model with Impact Attacks (to demonstrate the value of charges, and to act as a Hammer), a Monster and a War Machine, plus one spellcasting Character and one powerful melee Character. The Raptor Chariot, while not as iconic as the Divine Altar, also doesn't have the baggage of the Altar's numerous special rules to deal with, and still serves the purpose of teaching about Chariots and multi-part models. 5 Raptor Knights would also be a fine alternative to a Raptor Chariot, being a little bit more iconic to the Dread Elves as a whole and showing off a high armour unit instead of a multi-part construct while still acting as a Hammer unit and showing off Charge-based rules.
  • Zeitgeiszt wrote:

    1x Oracle (Character choice, also part of the QS Sample Army list)
    As elves we are good at magic. I do hope that even with the reduced rule sets that we are differentiated from other elves. (more aggressive)


    1x Assassin (Character choice)
    Great choice, It shows that as elves, with high leadership, a dedicated "tactician" for the general is unnecessary. Its also a super cool unit. Doesnt matter if most of the rules are stripped off, providing it lives up to the expectation of being an "assassin".


    Corsairs (Core choice, also part of the QS Sample Army list)
    - Either 10 Models
    - or 20 Models
    More interesting than spearmen for sure. Since these were picked over the blades it makes sense. But I do hope they come with handbows, as that does make them quite different from both elf archers as well as regular line troops. Much more aggressive as is the DE way.


    Dark Raiders (Core choice, also part of the QS Sample Army list)
    - 5 Models
    I really hope they are given xbows otherwise I think they are just another light cav.


    Tower Guard (Special choice, also part of the QS Sample Army list)
    - Either 5 Models,
    - 10 Models
    - or 17 Models
    Solid choice, sets a backbone to an army that is otherwise quite elusive.


    1x Divine Altar (Special choice)
    Excepting the tower guard who now are part of a cult, most of this army is cult less. I get the feeling that this is deliberate. As such the altar doesn't really fit fluff wise. Also it's just a huge pile of special rules, as well as the blades on top havent been included in the rest of the army making it a strange choice. I dont think most DE players even like the altar conceptually, its just in the current rules an auto include so it cant be avoided. Secondly its a pain to assemble (the GW model has like 90 parts.) And it also is a challenge to paint.

    Overall I think it is a poor choice.

    1x Dread Reaper (Destroyers choice)
    I think this is similar to the altar in that it is a good unit but not iconic. DE aren't known for artillery and their artillery is not very unique. Bolt thrower is generally good, but with the other units in the list its not a sit back and wait kind of list, I think it should promote aggressive play as is the DE way. Hence Dread Reaper isn't what I would include. Although it is easy to model and paint.


    1x Hydra (The Menagerie choice )
    This is what sets the DE apart, the are beastmasters taming the most ferocious of monsters. This should most definitely be included, if not the kraken. Its also not got to many parts looks great, and has large flanks that require less finess to paint.
    In replacement to the altar and the dread reaper I suggest the following:

    Medusa - single model that is somewhat easy to assemble but slightly more challenging to paint. To offset that you have already painted dozens of foot troops. Not sure how this will go with reduced special rules, but since this is the expansion I hope 1 special rule is allowed to represent the petrifying gaze.
    The medusa has the stats as if it was equipped with a halberd and the yema movement is built in.
    Ability:
    "Petrifying Gaze", Special attack with agility 0. Select an enemy model in base contact, that unit loses D3 health points.
    This is like an upgraded stomp since I dont think stomps will be part of the reduced rule set.

    Either raptor chariot or raptor riders(dread knights)
    Both represent the DE ability to master chaos as well as promoting an aggressive playstyle.
    The chariot may be the better choice as they have already assembled and painted quite a few models and having larger singular models can help bring the game alive. They also require no special rules excepting impact hits

    The only other unit I would consider is the Raven cloaks. But there is already quite a few infantry in the list so more isnt as exciting regardless of their prowess. From a modeling point of view it is also quite similar to the other infantry. So for the modeling reasons I think this unit should not be included.
    #freekillerinstinct
  • Daedalus wrote:

    It really depends on how complex you want the rules interactions to be in the army. The Altar is the single most complex unit in the entire Dread Elf faction, so as iconic as it is for the army I'm not sure how good an idea it is to use it as an example of play. I know the quick-start rules are heavily simplified, but the complexity of the piece means that it's either extremely difficult for a new player to use or stripped down to the point that including it would heavily misrepresent its role in the army in the full rules.

    If I were setting up the list, to give both a good idea of the feel of Dread Elves and a useful assortment of different unit types to teach the game to a new player, I'd go with:

    -Assassin
    -Oracle

    -Corsairs (20 models, Paired Weapons)
    -Dark Raiders (5 models, Repeater Crossbows)

    -Tower Guard (10 models)
    -Raptor Chariot

    -Dread Reaper

    -Hydra

    This gives us a wide variety of units to demonstrate. A rank-and-file unit with numbers and decent defence as an Anvil, an elite infantry unit with few models and powerful offence, a multi-part model with Impact Attacks (to demonstrate the value of charges, and to act as a Hammer), a Monster and a War Machine, plus one spellcasting Character and one powerful melee Character. The Raptor Chariot, while not as iconic as the Divine Altar, also doesn't have the baggage of the Altar's numerous special rules to deal with, and still serves the purpose of teaching about Chariots and multi-part models. 5 Raptor Knights would also be a fine alternative to a Raptor Chariot, being a little bit more iconic to the Dread Elves as a whole and showing off a high armour unit instead of a multi-part construct while still acting as a Hammer unit and showing off Charge-based rules.
    ^ This

    I definitely agree with dropping the Divine Altar for a Raptor Chariot. They will always be popular in the DE lists, and they also kinda cover the aesthetics of mounted elves for people inclined that way. So 2 birds, one stone.

    Perhaps for a Cult alternative - swap corsairs for Blades of Nabh and swap Tower Guard for Dread Judges. Keep it simple.
    Australian #1 DE Aug '17 - Aug '18


    T9A - Nanatoo
    Wargamer.au - Naboo
  • My choice would be

    Oracle
    Assassin

    Dark Raiders
    Corsairs

    Tower Guard
    Dread Knights

    Hunting Chariot (I guess it has simple and elegant QS rules)
    Hydra
    Raven Cloaks

    Basically for the same reasons mentioned above. I focused on iconic units and style of Dread Elves here. The mentioned units represent the DE quite well. I went for Knights instead of Raptor Chariot, as I think they are even more iconic and it opens up the possibility to swap Dread Reapers for Hunting Chariot. Instead of Altar (too complex) I went for Raven Cloaks. They definitely do fit with the Assassin and offer the player the interesting choice where to put the Assassin. Also i think they are super fluffy.

    (Dark Acolytes would also be a great addition)
    My blog with battle reports and painting gallery: bleaklegion.wordpress.com/
  • As many others said above, in my opinion the altar could be perceived as too complicated for new comers. Raptor chariots could be the better choice since they are fun and have only impact hits as a special rule, and they provide some tough units to play with. I guess we want to showcase raptors as well, I chose DE in the first place because of them so it may be a good branding strategy for the faction. Elves with monsters! That is what we should push for.
  • I don't really know how QS works... but I like the Altar in it. It's a great centre piece, and will introduce players early to the idea of synergies etc.

    As for padding out the list..?
    We have some lights shooting that isn't represented in the list yet. Maybe some Raven Cloaks (or Auxiliaries). RCs could work with the Assassin, giving people the opportunity to play the special deployments.
    Maybe Knights, Raptor Chariots and/or Dark Acolytes, too. To introduce DE's manoeuvrability.
    I'd say it's less about the units, and more about the ideas of the army you're trying to convey.
    Painting League 2018

    #FreeKillerInstinct
  • What would be you least liked unit choice? 25
    1.  
      Raven Cloaks (6) 24%
    2.  
      Dread Knights (2) 8%
    3.  
      Raptor Chariot (2) 8%
    4.  
      Harpies (6) 24%
    5.  
      Dread Judges (1) 4%
    6.  
      Dancers of Yema (8) 32%
    7.  
      Medusa (12) 48%
    8.  
      Dark Acolytes (8) 32%
    9.  
      Divine Altar (7) 28%
    10.  
      Hunting Chariot (11) 44%
    11.  
      Dread Reaper (3) 12%
    12.  
      Kraken (4) 16%
    13.  
      Hydra (1) 4%
    14.  
      Dread Legionnaires (2) 8%
    15.  
      Blades of Nabh (9) 36%
    16.  
      Repeater Auxiliaries (10) 40%
    third poll
  • What would be your favored unit choice? 23
    1.  
      Raven Cloaks (4) 17%
    2.  
      Dread Knights (12) 52%
    3.  
      Raptor Chariot (7) 30%
    4.  
      Harpies (2) 9%
    5.  
      Dread Judges (13) 57%
    6.  
      Dancers of Yema (3) 13%
    7.  
      Medusa (0) 0%
    8.  
      Dark Acolytes (4) 17%
    9.  
      Divine Altar (5) 22%
    10.  
      Hunting Chariot (2) 9%
    11.  
      Dread Reaper (5) 22%
    12.  
      Kraken (3) 13%
    13.  
      Hydra (13) 57%
    14.  
      Dread Legionnaires (9) 39%
    15.  
      Blades of Nabh (4) 17%
    16.  
      Repeater Auxiliaries (2) 9%
    fourth poll
  • Alright,

    so after evaluating and discussing the poll results internally, the QS Team came up with the following new list:

    Character choice:

    Oracle
    Captain (used to be Assassin)

    Core choice:

    Corsairs
    Dark Raiders

    Other choices:

    Tower Guard
    Dread Knights (used to be Divine Altar)
    Raptor Chariot (used to be Dread Reaper)
    Hydra


    The Oracle, Cosairs, Dark Raiders and Tower Guard have already been part of the DE Sample Army list, a downgraded version of the DE regular Army list on which we are working in this thread. That is why these units are auto included in the Regular Army list and where not represented (exept the Oracle) in the previous voting.

    Now for the reason of balancing not every top poll choice could be included in the new QS Regular Army List. So the QS staff had to find a compromise.

    So after seeing the above list what are your thoughts?
    Are you statisfied or would you like to see some changes beeing made to the list?

    Fell free to discuss!