A couple of prophosals for FAB

    This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

    The latest issue of the 9th Scroll is here! You can read all about it in the news.

    • A couple of prophosals for FAB

      Hi there. This months I have to drive quite a lot due to work, and that leads to thinking a lot. As I allways say, once you reach a conclusion, it is hard to view its flaws if you can't go out of the box. And the better way to do this is by sharing your thoughts:

      Volley Guns

      What I dislike from volley guns in general is its randomness. On top of that, our volley guns don't have the usuall *2 of other armies. That leads to our volleys guns to huge ammount of randomness.

      Moreover, as @Tyranno pointed yesterday, that makes us suffer extra when we roll a 6, since we suffer the usual -1 malus to hit but just get 6 shots, not 12 or 18.

      Also, I would say than from a background pov, ID are one of the most, or the most, advanced civilitzation in engineering, so I can't understand why we have such unreliable technology.

      My proposal is to have fixed values on volley guns. Not just helps mitigate that randomness, but after reading the explanation of BLT on BB's, I'm pretty sure they valued rocket battery as if it do 10 shots at R5 AS+5 monster and grenade launcher like 6 shots at R4 AS+5. An innitial approach could be as follows:

      • Rocket Battery (+4): Volley Gun Artillery Weapon (Range 48', Shoots 7, S7 AP2)
      • Grenade Launcher (+3): Volley Gun Artillery Weapon (Range 18', Shoots 4, S6 AP2)
      • Gunnery Volley Gun (+4): Volley Gun Artillery Weapon (Range 24', Shoots 10, S4 AP2)
      Vizier and Fan the Flame

      I think it is a shame than the sole purpose of hero level charachters is being bsb, which indeed is more like an obligation than an option. I would like to see more play fro this kind of charachters.

      One approach might be as they tried to do in UD, were the monarch has the habilities of the paraoh but much worse ofensive statline.

      Something like that could be achieved here. To keep it simple, giving +1 Dis to Vizier could give us the option to have a cheaper general.

      Also, I could se for him to keep the current statline as it is now and put a special rule which gives Dis 10 when he is the general (and being generak costing extra points, like O&G pay for warcry).

      In regards of Fan the Flame, it has been said than it might be removed or changed. I would try to keep it someway in the FAB.

      My proposal regarding this is to change it to "the character and his unit gain bf in round 1" and we will have bf on round 2 due to CoA. Can't say if it is better or worse, but it is more consistent in inmersion and rulewise, IMHO.

      Vizier could have this version of Fan the Flames too, maybe loosing 1 A and 1 Off, on top of +1 Dis allways or conditional to being general.


      That might lead to even less Bullzir, which I'm not confortable with.

      Bound Demon

      Just a couple of bound demon in all ETC lists make me sad. The simple sollution could be to give him the option to pivot and shoot, like the OK chariot.

      To give him the option to move and fire could be way to much, but I would like it. Maybe it could be achieved giving him 2 gunnery team weapons instead of one of the current artillery. Just a thought.
    • Volley Guns

      I dont think that we could get fixed values for the Volley Guns and it may not be the best approach. It denies the general desing of these artillery weapons.

      Not misfiring would come with an increased price tag and even worse synergy with an engineer.

      There are other ways of making these weapons more reliable while keeping their theme, for example, a simple change in the case of Rocket Battery could be:

      Rocket Battery 2D3+3 S7 AP2

      This reduces the max number of shoots from 11 to 9, while increases the minimum from 2 to 5. We achieve delimiting better the randomness of the damage, while still can misfire.
      I guess that reducing the max damage output would grant an overall price reduction.

      (Dont take this idea as something serious, its just a wild non discussed idea)


      Vizier and Fan the Flames

      Indeed, Vizier could become a "mini-Overlord" with the same ability or a weakened version of the ability.

      Im doubtful about the +1Dis, I guess that having more than one character with Dis10 depends on ASAW and may not be allowed. Also I can see the "mini-Overlord" with Dis10 taking the place of Overlord and maybe overshadowing him.

      Its hard to find a place for this "fighty heroes" outside being BSB. I think that being a bull rider is a good alternative role that we should focus for him.

      About Fan the Flames. Yes, BF from turn one is an obvious way to go if CoA stay as is for FAB.


      Bound Daemon

      I can say that the current ID Team agree with you on the state of the Bound Daemon. We tried to implement twice "pivot and shoot" during last update, both times was rejected.

      Maybe the FAB Team will find the higher ups more receptive and have more luck.


      Please, keep posting more ideas for FAB. We will take note of them! ^^

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Gomio ().

    • I think that mod powers are needed for merging threads. But since it is a small thread, a quote would let us to follow the discussion here. :)

      Feanor83 wrote:

      While I was just browsing through the options for our Infernal Engine, I was thinking how great and thematically fitting it would be to have an addtional flamthrower option. It would be a little redundant though, because we already have the Volcano Cannon and the Flamethrower weapon team. None the less I quite like the idea and I'm curious how others think about it.
      The Forgeworld model for the Iron daemon, which I guess most people use, could lend to be used as (dual) flamethrower as well.
    • I really wish our flamethrowers wont get -1 to misfire roll. Its works perfectly with army theme and we should have a proof of dwarf reliability since DH took it all so far.

      No dis 10 on prophet is really iritating. With current rules we are actually punished for hifmgh base dis. Elf mages provide +1 dis over regular troops , so should ours. 10 on Hermes is natural consequence of 9 as a base.

      I would gladely welcome mechanic like ogre Wildheart bigname to allow more agressive army setup.

      Gunnery teams should be able to flee as a charge reaction.
    • Just curious, what is the general design between Volley Gunn? Because it looks to me like "Unrelliable Machine which makes between a lot and a lot of lots of shoots".

      Can't see how it has to go up in price to put tonned down average shoots and saving problems. But can't see how bb's cost as muchas flintlocks and it does.

      Anyway, anything which reduces randomness is welcome. Be it XD3+Y or Z shoots. As I said, ID should be #1 technology race, so having unreliable warmachines seems odd to me.

      I can see mini-overlord eating the role of overlord. But, at least like I see, if there is an Overlord, there is Onyx core, so maybe what we need are MW and not Ld10+ Fan the Flames. If there are some overlords with hero's hearth and little protection, I can see a vizirlord eating space, but I think the important thing of the overlord is how it makes the matrix better with onyx core.

      A bound demon with ft could be nice... Maybe a mele ft instead if grinding? (D6+ND3 S5 AP2 MW2?)
    • Manxol wrote:

      Just curious, what is the general design between Volley Gunn? Because it looks to me like "Unrelliable Machine which makes between a lot and a lot of lots of shoots".

      As you can read in the BRB, a Volley Gun is a weapon that makes a random number of shots. I think that a fixed value collides with that.

      Can't see how it has to go up in price to put tonned down average shoots and saving problems. But can't see how bb's cost as muchas flintlocks and it does.

      Sorry I didnt explained myself correctly. I meant that no misfires and -1 to hit on 6s would be a factor for increasing the price, while obviously, the decreased max number of shots would be a factor for decreasing it. It would be up to BLT to balance it, didnt meant that it would result in an overall price increase.

      Anyway, anything which reduces randomness is welcome. Be it XD3+Y or Z shoots. As I said, ID should be #1 technology race, so having unreliable warmachines seems odd to me.

      It was stated by BGT to the ID Team in past updates, that ID are indeed a top race in technology and economy. But they are in constant seek of power and they would gladly sacrifice things, like some reliability, for extra power.
    • "Artillery weapon.
      Volley Gun attacks have Multiple Shots (X), from which they ignore
      negative to-hit modifiers. If X is a random number (such as in Volley
      Gun (2D6)) apply the following: when rolling for the number of hits for a
      Volley Gun attack, if a single natural '6' is rolled (after any
      reroll),this attack suffers a -1 to-hit modifier; instead, iftwo or more
      natural '6' are rolled, the attack fails and the Volley Gun Misfires:
      roll on the Misfire Table and apply the corresponding result."

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Feanor83 ().

    • Feanor83 wrote:

      "Artillery weapon.
      Volley Gun attacks have Multiple Shots (X), from which they ignore
      negative to-hit modifiers. If X is a random number (such as in Volley
      Gun (2D6)) apply the following: when rolling for the number of hits for a
      Volley Gun attack, if a single natural '6' is rolled (after any
      reroll),this attack suffers a -1 to-hit modifier; instead, iftwo or more
      natural '6' are rolled, the attack fails and the Volley Gun Misfires:
      roll on the Misfire Table and apply the corresponding result."

      Now take your BRB and read the updated rule. Many things in Lexicon are outdated.
    • Gomio wrote:

      Feanor83 wrote:

      "Artillery weapon.
      Volley Gun attacks have Multiple Shots (X), from which they ignore
      negative to-hit modifiers. If X is a random number (such as in Volley
      Gun (2D6)) apply the following: when rolling for the number of hits for a
      Volley Gun attack, if a single natural '6' is rolled (after any
      reroll),this attack suffers a -1 to-hit modifier; instead, iftwo or more
      natural '6' are rolled, the attack fails and the Volley Gun Misfires:
      roll on the Misfire Table and apply the corresponding result."
      Now take your BRB and read the updated rule. Many things in Lexicon are outdated.
      Damit. Not everybody is playing Beta though. But like Manxol suggested, there are ways if wanted.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Feanor83 ().

    • Manxol wrote:

      Thought the giant blowpipe of SA was gunnery weapon too, but it just is an Artillery Weapon with shoots 8. Same with HE Sea Ripper, just artilkery weapon.

      Don't know how it internally works, but couldn't a couple of phrophosals be made for same unit, blt prices both and then the book design guys choose which one include to the book?
      There are some weapons that go for a fixed value while they dance around the concept of not being a Volley Gun while the work like one, like the DH copters or others.

      Dont know how these things would be treated on FABs. I guess that the removal of the Multiples shots rule created some confusion between volley guns and weapons that shoot multiple times.


      The Task Teams do lot of designs when working in a unit, then we choose one and send it to RT. They decide if it it should be put in the book or not, if yes then BLT price it.

      Of course the Task Teams, have members from BLT, RT, ACS and we get advised in the matter of pricings, community expectations, etc.

      Thats how it worked till now, but right now, there is an internal restructuring process on the staff for trying to improve how we work. So, probably, it will be different soon.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Gomio ().