Chivalry v Reptiles 2000 point playtest game

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    • Chivalry v Reptiles 2000 point playtest game

      9th Age

      2000 point test game

      Kingdom of Chivalry v Reptilians of the Ancients

      The Knights:

      Lord on warhorse the new HKB (No armor save and multiple wounds 3)
      Paladin BSB with 1+ rerollable save
      Paladin knight kit with +d6 on the charge
      2 level 2 priestesses on ponys with a scroll
      13 Knights of the realm with f/c and a Warbanner
      11 Freehold Knights f/c speed banner
      10 Knights realm with f/c and +1 LD banner
      1 Treb
      2x10 bowmen
      5 hunters (mounted yeomen)
      3 Peg Knights

      The Lizards had:

      Slann BSB with LD banner, scroll, 5 spells on death
      17 temple guard f/c
      20 Saurus with Spears f/c
      20 Saurus with hand weapon shield f/c
      Scar vet on a Tyrannosaur with armor of destiny (so T5 W4 3+ armor 4+ ward)
      2 Macedons (Bastiladon) one solar one snakes

      The reptiles massacred the knights who only had bowmen and a Treb left at the end of turn 5 having killed only the two Maceodons.

      What we learned: the new magic phase was improved over 8th, the spells generally less powerful (purple sun did minimal damage). That said the Reptiles won the game in part with death magic. 5 spells meant the Slann had two snipes and two hexes, the snipes killed the BSB and the spell Death #5 was a real Bret killer, forcing rerolls of both armor and ward saves, it swung two crucial combats by about 5 wounds, hugely effective.

      Other pluses for the lizards: raptor riders (cold one Cav) are much improved. The S6 on the charge with rerolling 1s to hit is a killer, as is the fact that all those raptor attacks also reroll 1s to hit. They are very powerful.

      The Maceadons were the MVPs though. Cheap tough terror causing (and with swiftstride despite M4) their poison or WS buffs were very helpful. An excellent bargain in the new list. Who can be a diverted or hard to shift chaff Ina pinch. And with crush attack you don't want to chance a character against them.

      The temple guard, with those buffs and help from the Death magic hexes were unstoppable, carving through Knight lances like butter. The Saurus themselves were nicely improved as well with the killing blow spears chipping in a few wounds and the hand weapon shield parry version taking a charge from a full 12 strong lance of frenzied Knights plus paladin, breaking the charging Knights and running them off the board. Yikes.

      The sub MVP for the reptiles was the Scar vet on a tyranasour. Very effective, with a 3+ armor (could have been 2+ baring the great weapon) and a 4+ ward save (not to mention T5 and 4W) this guy is a tank, soooo hard to kill, much less hurt. Charging Knights won't do nearly enough wounds - a full unit of 15 realms do 1.3 wounds on average on the charge and next to nothing in the rounds following. The knights usual answer for this guys would be Trebs or or the HKB lord both who have been toned down enough to render them unlikely to do the job. We get to that below.

      Other rules: loved the monster counting as a rank and thus breaking single rank steadfasts and the extra +1 combat res for flank and rear with a rank - those felt like the best changes in our game.

      The real winners were the monsters, Macedon and Tyranasourus and to a Lesser degree the raptors. The nerf on the Slann hurt, but not too bad. He still provided the LD 10 cold blooded with a reroll, a rock solid center. He could still hide in the second rank of the TG and with 5 spells he still got an effective spell off each turn. The combination of the doom and darkness attribute (-1 LD) and fear causing -1 LD (which we loved) was a nasty combination.

      The knights had a tougher time. The improved ward from 6+ or 5+ to a straight 5+ was nice but seemed more than offset by all the ways units could get holy attacks (forcing rerolls of successful wards): spells, banners, abilities. Having a ward save just doesn't seem as powerful in 9th age.

      The freelancers (errants) were ineffective, as frenzy in lance formation only provides 3 extra WS 3 attacks (or only 2 if there is a character in the unit) - just not worth it. Why do they have a 50 point magic banner allowance while the regular Knights only have 25 points?

      I was thinking of Grail Knights but again the lance formation limits the attacks from the back ranks, last edition 8 grails would have 15 S6 attacks on the charge, now only they have only 11. The holy attacks and 4+ ward are nice but these guys are all about hitting power on the charge which they have lost some of. Need to try the new Questing Knights to see how they do.

      The Peg Knights were also less effective in our game than they were in 8th, the lack of vanguard and skirmishing affected their maneuverability and protection from BS shooting. In another game I'll have to finally take advantage of fact I can take multiple units without the general flying around on a peg. It's too bad they can't get that extra +1 for flanks and rears (though no flyers should, we agree with that in the 9th age rules)

      The loss of the virtue of duty (+1 combat red while general is alive) hurt my usual build of a big combat res bus but the unit with 5 ranks of Knights plus BSB banner and war banner is still solid.

      The Knights now get supporting attacks but lose horse attacks from the sides of the back ranks. That seemed like a wash mostly though it makes beast magic less effective for the Knights as wildform doesn't help all those horse attacks like it used to.

      Speaking of magic, for the last nine months I have been running no magic list for the Brets and really loving it. Getting rid of the miscast bombs in the middle of knight units was a gift from the Lady. In 9th I am headed in the same direction. The damsel/priestesses no longer have line of sight from the middle of the second rank so all those magic missiles are less useful (and beast magic looks less helpful again with Amber spear and crows' feast only cast if the damsel is put in harms way in the front rank, not to mention the wolf hunts' +1 move or swiftstride isn't all that useful for the knights).

      It's great to get light magic but that has two magic missiles as well. In this game I intentionally didn't take the magic missile spells, but rather took all buffs and the nice hex of the Net. Anyway, as expected a 3 dice mostly inconsequential buff lead to a painful miscast. Back to no mages next game.

      The bowmen changed some as well. The bret bowmen were notoriously useless in 8th and seemed to only be taken for comp reasons. What changed: well the volly rule looks nice though usually only taking 10 bowmen at a time, the multiple rank shooting didn't help. Instead of having the fences which provided -1 to hit with shooting and in hand to hand against them as well as dangerous terrain, the archers trench just gives them -1 to be hit with shooting. So it felt like a bad Bret unit got worse and kept the same points. As expected they did nothing this game against the lizards, though to be fair it's a bad match up for them.

      The hunters (mounted yeomen) are cheaper which is nice, and still have their role as moderately effective chaff. Though lone Paladins remain a better choice.

      I used to play Brets with 6-7 Paladins and expected to have to change that style with the rule of only three of each character max. But surprisingly with the Templars heroes (Paladins with a sort of Grail vow - 4+ward and holy attacks), looks like that multiple hero strategy is alive.

      The HKB was a staple of all 8th edition Bret armies so what of him? Well he was ineffective in this game, in large part because instead of killing something outright, his HKB only has multiple wounds (3) with a roll of a 6 to wound. That doesn't seem so much of a change but two other changes make that difference in wounds dramatic. First the ridden monsters have 4 wounds, so one heroic killing blow won't stop those return attacks from killing the lord. And re larger monster have up to 7 wounds, so three killing blows are needed - the Bret lord is not killing any dragons anytime soon. Second all (many) of those ridden monsters are now going to have ward saves. I took as offensive a build as I could, sword of +3 attacks and +1 to hit and still couldn't handle the lizard hero on the ridden monster. Having the HKB virtue (duty) not count against the magic allowance helps a bit, but no enough to offset the nerf. The loss of the tres of Isolde and the rerolls to wound of the heartwood lance lance also hurt this character.

      The Treb remains solid at S10/5, but with ordinance rules lowering wounds, it feels like more of an anti-infantry only weapon instead of having a dual role as a monster hunter. The price increase to 110 points feels right.

      Bottom line, the Britts were wiped out because monsters are better and the Brets are worse at fighting them.

      I look forward to trying out some cheap small units of 6 Knights to out maneuver opponents for those juicy flanks.
    • Thanks for your feedback!

      A couple of points.

      Damsels and Prophetes has line of sight from second rank, as do all mages in 9th edition.

      Honor of the Dragon slayer(HKB) says that you have killing blow and multiple wounds(3). Note that ALL wound caused have the multiple wounds (3) and not only the killing blow ones, you should kill monstrous creatures easily when charging with a lance with these rules. Sword of Haste and Crystal Ball would be a better choice of equipment and make this lord very scary.(hitting on 2+/3+ wounding on 4+ and each wound multiple wounds (3) wounds with 6 cannot take armour saves ).

      The idea of bowmen is to make units of 15 or more and put some men at arms or pilgrims in front so you get -2 to get hit(stackes and cover). They are worse in cc comparing to 8th but better vs ranged shooting.

      I agree on lance formation being worse and not useful for errants or grials.
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