Pinned Underused/often Used units and items

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  • New

    Sorry, but the original question is way too vague. Before we can answer than, I need the following:

    1. Are we supposed to answer for us or for what we perceives in general (e.g. there is a difference between me personally not liking Corsairs and everybody else playing them just fine).
    2. What is underused?
    3. What is overused?
    4. What is unused?
    5. Are we to add our personal point of view on the unit usage? E.g. an iconic unit of the book might be heavily used, but everybody just says: "yeah well, that's why we play DE". Should we still flag that as overused or not?
    My blog with battle reports and painting gallery: bleaklegion.wordpress.com/
  • New

    From now on please post in 4 categories:

    Not used

    Underused

    Often used

    Autoinclude

    You can discuss whatever you want beneath but be sure to include these categories.

    I as ACS was asked to gather these informations. If TA wants to gather more information via lists from tournaments they can, but until then we do as I say and as I was told ( @DarkSky @Squirrelloid ) I suggest you pick what you feel is underused or not or whatever in general.
  • New

    Below are my lists, based on my own perceptions and thought processes about list building. I've run every unit in the book multiple times, so the not used category (for me) is the stuff I don't really give much consideration to when writing lists. Likewise, the Autoincludes don't always make it into a list, but they probably do. I suppose I've interpreted the question as being asked to rank in order the likelihood of taking a given unit/item. Anyway...

    Items:

    Not used
    Death's Kiss
    Terrifying Visage
    Seal of the Republic
    Beast Master's Lash
    Wandering Familiar
    Elixir of Shadows
    Amulet of Spite

    Underused
    Pendant of Disdain
    Ring of Shadows

    Often used
    Transcendence
    Midnight Cloak
    Banner of Blood
    Academy Banner

    Autoinclude
    Moraec's Reaping
    Banner of Gar Daecos

    A lot of our items are standard / infantry only. And fighty infantry characters are a no go for me (with the exception of Moraec's on an Oracle - because it's too good).


    Units:

    Not used
    Captain
    Corsairs
    Blades of Nabh
    Repeater Auxiliaries
    Hunting Chariot
    Kraken
    Hydra

    Underused
    Prince
    Assassin
    Tower Guard
    Dread Knights
    Harpies
    Medusa
    Dark Acolytes

    Often used
    Raven Cloaks
    Raptor Chariots

    Autoinclude
    Cult Priest
    Oracle
    Dread Legionnaires
    Dark Raiders
    Dread Judges
    Dancers of Yema
    Divine Altar (usually with priest - Underused without priest)
    Dread Repeater


    It's sad acknowledging that all of the scoring core options except the cheapest is not used. Occasionally I spend some time considering the value of corsairs. But it almost never gets past the consideration stage.
    Monsters haven't been my play style for a while. So I don't really consider them at the moment (so don't take that as me saying they're bad). Although I do feel Hydras are a bit expensive.
    Painting League 2018

    #FreeKillerInstinct
  • New

    Personally the following, however bear in mind I mostly play 1500-3000pt games. Some stuff that is competitive is just too pricey at those points:

    Units Not used: Cult Legate, Hunting Chariot, Hydra, Manticore, cowboys (ie mounted Capt or Prince not acting as General or BSB) Dragon

    Units Underused: Dread Prince mounted, Assassin, Cult Priest on Altar, Dancers of Yema, Pegasus Oracle, Blades of Nabh, Auxilliaries, Corsairs, Raven Cloaks,

    Units Often used: Capt BSB (Fleet Comd or Horse/Raptor), Foot Capt/Prince (Fleet Comd BSB) DRs, DLs (Spears and S&B), Execs, TG, Medusa, Harpies, Raptors, Kraken, Acolytes + Champ, Reaper Bolt Thrower, raptor chariot,

    Units Autoinclude: Oracle Master or 2 x Adept or 1x Adept with Acolytes. Oracles on Horse, Raptor or Foot.
  • New

    Below a list which i based on my personal preference when bulding lists:

    Items:

    Not used (I dont even consider them)
    Death's Kiss
    Terrifying Visage
    Seal of the Republic
    Elixir of Shadows
    Amulet of Spite
    Pendant of Disdain (I dont use fighty chars apart from the BSB on Altar)
    Midnight Cloack
    Transcendence
    Beast Master's Lash (I think our monsters are just a waste off points)

    Underused (I considered them, but didnt see much playtime)
    Ring of Shadows
    Academy Banner
    Banner of Gar Daecos

    Autoinclude ( I build my lists arround them)
    Moraec's Reaping
    Wandering Familiar
    Banner of Blood


    Units entries:

    Not used ( I dont consider them even anymore - but I have to mention I dont like playing big blocks of elite intf... so take this with a grain of salt)
    Blades of Nabh
    Repeater Auxiliaries
    Assasin (HE this need a specific build, but on paper its not a bad option, usually I just prefer to spend points on other stuff)
    Harpies (that even cannot kill a warmachine, I prefer chaff from core)
    Dread Judges
    Hydra
    Kraken
    Prince
    Captain

    Underused (I considered them, but not much use since)
    Medusa (just cannot find a place for them when I need to get scoring in form of units from Special)
    Dark Acolytes (as above)
    Raven Cloacks (as above)
    Tower Guard ( I stopped using them as the Dancers are a faster, cheaper and better anvil unit)
    Hunting Chariot


    Often used
    Dancers of Yema

    Autoinclude
    Cult Priest on Altar
    Oracle
    Dread Legionnaires
    Dark Raiders
    Raptor Chariots
    Dread Repeater
    Dread Knights (with Banner of Blood)



    And about what I see in the PL meta in DE lists:

    Items:

    Not used ( I dont see them in the lists at all)
    Death's Kiss
    Terrifying Visage
    Seal of the Republic
    Beast Master's Lash
    Elixir of Shadows
    Amulet of Spite

    Underused (come in lists from time to time)
    Pendant of Disdain
    Ring of Shadows
    Midnigh Cloack (after recent change)
    Academy Banner
    Transcendence
    Banner of Gar Daecos

    Often used
    Banner of Blood (for me its Autoinclude when you take Dread Knights)
    Moraec's Reaping

    Autoinclude
    Wandering Familiar


    Units entries:

    Not used ( I dont see them in the lists at all)
    Blades of Nabh
    Repeater Auxiliaries


    Underused (come in lists from time to time)
    Assassin
    Dread Knights
    Harpies
    Medusa
    Raven Cloacks
    Dread Judges
    Tower Guard
    Kraken
    Hunting Chariot

    Often used
    Raptor Chariots
    Dark Acolytes
    Dread Repeater
    Hydra

    Autoinclude
    Cult Priest on Altar
    Oracle
    Dread Legionnaires
    Dark Raiders
    Dancers of Yema

    The post was edited 3 times, last by LeXincerta ().

  • New

    Alrighty, here is my comprehensive analysis. I will note that only some of this is my personal preference as I do love me my Dread Elves but I also have a very keen analytical brain that I'm switching on here. But its still possible I could have missed some cool combos for something or other, or haven't had the time to test out something that in theory is great but on the table lacks that tiny extra element.

    I will go into detail on some of them, for others it is fairly obvious and there are pages of threads explaining why.
    I'm going through every entry in the book, if it is left out it is because the entry is good, rules wise it works and it has at least a couple combos and builds. Ring of Shadows and Beastmasters lash is a good example.

    Not used
    Cult of Cadaron and Olaron
    Death's Kiss
    Repeater handbow on characters
    Dragon
    Cult Priest on Foot
    Characters on Foot
    Divine Alter with Light Lance upgrade.
    Oracle Apprentice (any path)
    Corsairs (all option except vanguard)
    Dread Legionnaires without spears
    Dancers of Yema with Skirmish
    Hunting Chariot

    Underused
    Terrifying Visage
    Seal of the Republic
    Pendant of Disdain
    Elixir of Shadows
    Academy Banner
    Dread Prince
    Manticore
    Captain
    Midnight Cloak
    Divine Alter separate entry.
    Assassin
    Corsairs with vanguard. (any upgrades)
    Blades of Nabh
    Repeater Auxiliaries
    Dread Judges
    Dread Knights
    Raptor Chariot
    Harpies
    Medusa
    Dark Acolytes with out Champion

    Often used
    Transcendence
    Banner of Gar Daecos
    Oracle Adep/Master (any Path)
    Dread Legionnaires with Spear
    Tower Guard
    Dread Knights with Banner of Blood
    Dark Acolytes with Champion

    Autoinclude

    Moraec's Reaping
    Cult Priest BSB on Divine Alter
    Dark Raiders(any upgrades)
    Dread Reaper


    Ok, so that is the list. Now I will explain a few.
    ----------------------
    Meangerie
    I'd like to start with Kraken and Hydra that are not in any of the categories. Their rules and points shifts alot with the meta. The Hydra Fortitude save is overcosted from an overall perspective. Obviously the balance team set the points for "optimal" which means opponent is considered to not have any fire attacks. But if opponent has fire then you've just overpaid 100pts for that Hydra.
    Dragon - lots of threads explaining that 3+ amour just sisn't good enough for a 450 point mount. Lots of suggestions on how to fix that including Piercing Resist(x) for Dragons.

    ------------------------------------
    Characters

    I want to address Characters because this heavily sways alot of underused entries - namely the upgrades. Characters are typically fighty or buffy, then they are either in a unit or on their own. On their own requires them to have beefed up defenses, typically on a mount with an Aegis save. If you don't have access to enough Beef, then they don't get used - Mantiocre without the midnight cloak is a great example. The midngiht cloak isn't even that good because it's only for ranged!!!! But no one wants to pay 600-800points for a 4 wound model without a good Aegis save! it's just never going to happen. Even with the midnight cloak, the manticore character has to pick it's fights carefully. And it is still vulnerable to Divination Path and divine attacks. This lack of Defense on Characters also directly influces why the Divine Alter is Auto-include. The Alter is fine and balances the way it is at it's current points. It's the other choices that are not.

    Characters in a unit/on foot are obviously fighty or buffy as mentioned above. They can be a mix of both. The problem in Elite armies is that the basic troops are good. So the characters have to be above and beyond in fighty or buffy to warrant taking up a frontline slot and the points. The best examples of this to the extreme are Vampires Covenant and Empire of Sonnsthal. Obvioulsy these armies are extreme because their internal balanced around buffy characters, but their characters can all get beefy upgrades for resiliance, armour, aegis, distracting, etc.... Compared to regular troops they are worth it for the points.

    Now lets look at the elves, I'll go Pan-elvan here because its a problem with all 3 books. The defense stats, all 3 books have Resiliance 3 characters which is ok. But they also have restricted/expensive armour and aegis. So the elf characters limited defense. This would be ok if the offense was great but it is not. In HBE the only foot character is the one with the spear who can do like 4-10 attacks depending on dice and upgrade which is pretty darn good! The only fighty character on foot that seems to see play in Dread elves i the assassin! and that is because his fighty attacks get damage through, and he's got an Aegis save. Similar in HBE they got an overused High Warden of the FLame to get that Aegis save.
    The buffy dread elf abilities are actually fairly week buffs. That is also why people take the Alter, it gives some solid buffs that can be used tactically. A cult preist on foot giving killer instinct is mathematically going to get 1 extra wound through reliably? And you gotta pay 300pts with defensive upgrades. Just not worth it.

    The fighty characters on foot is an issue that I haven't seen addressed much on the forums. Dread elves have the same attack values as humans, but we have gimped defense.
    Obviously it's difficult to keep the stats the same on character and just lower the price because then it's worth it to just character spam and get a front row of 3 attack, 3 wound characters! lol.
    So the basic fighty Elf character just sisn't good enough to replace the slot of a rank and file trooper. This is why Moreac's Reaping and Hero's Heart are overused or Auto include. You can take a buff character like a mage and now they become decently fighty enough for their points.
    Now comparing externally I think that increasing the attack value by 1 on Princes and Captains is a viable option. Obviosly a slight point increase, but not too much because they are already overs costed on foot. I'd honestly say maybe 10pts? ....the mounts becomes a bit better so they can go up a bit as well AFTER their points have been adjusted for other factors.
    You do this, and all of a sudden it becomes viable to want to replace a rank and file Judge Dread or Towerguard with a Captain or Prince. And now those items with foot upgrades start seeing play.

    Cult Priest on foot - again, read all of the above. But how do we fix this entry without massivly dropping the points? Some have suggested giving it a Aegis save. ...I think fluff wise, it fits to give this entry a 5+ Fortitude save. They are cult priest, sacrificial to the gods for personal gain. maybe even the buff to the unit is a 6+ fortitude save. Anyway, lots of things that could be drawn up with a brainstorm thread.

    Oracle Apprentice - big thread on apprentices. Best suggestion was to separate Apprentice, adept, master from the Channel ability and just give channel to the individual entries in all books so that it can be balanced. Some armies can spam cheap Apprentices so they shouldn't have channel, while armies like the elves Apprentices probably should have channel. Give her channel and we'll see an apprentice here and there, and maybe with some items like that are underused.
    Heck, I missread the rules before and I thought Apprentaces got channel and I still didn't think the oracle apprentice was worth it.

    ----------------------------------------

    The Core

    Honestly this is just a case of a lack of roles. Corsairs have their own thread on it.
    Dark Raiders are Auto include because Corsairs are not tweaked enough to fill the role. Harpies are the other chaff unit but they are in special which means you'd have to make a viable combat core unit to fill core with. ...which we kinda have with legionaires and Blades of Nabh, I think it's just a preference thing that players want to take other cool stuff like TowerGuard and Judge Dreads. Also, like I pointed out above with characters on foot, if you take blocks of spears, you're gonna want to at least put some characters in there but it just currently isn't viable.
    Blades of Nahb - I've posted before about how they are pretty close to being decent but the costs for extra models is too high so it's not worth taking a unit over the size of 14 because spears become the better option. Blades lack of defense is warranted but when you got a 750pt unit of 30, that lack of defense means they die or get reduced to under 25% in every match. So get that max unit size under 650 with the rending banner and I think it is very viable. I've used blades and it takes some skill to use them because they are very glass cannon.

    Repeater Auxiillaries - only every used as a bunker for a mage. But when you look at fielding a mage on foot and you then think ....ugh, I gotta bunker it in Repeaters which dont' do any damage so I might as well give her moreac's reaping, destinies call, and put her in the front line. Or just put her in a unit of Spears so I have more wounds and make do small engagements.

    ---------------------------

    A bunch of underused stuff can be chalked up just lack of data. An example - the medusa is great, but it takes times for people to want to try out builds that make use of the synergies. Some don't want to proxy and only paint stuff up. Alot of us simply don't play much in the summertime so we gotta wait for winter to get some more data.

    And I'll close with the fact that not every single thing needs to be viable for top tier competitive play. And I'm talking top tier.
    I think it speaks wonders to the achievement of T9A that we are transitioning into the area where it's not longer about simply points being balanced but we are noticing it's the roles that are slightly off. Tweak the role over here and PooF! everyone else was already balanced.




  • New

    Keeping in mind I've played few DE games since 2.0.4 hit, but these are things that rarely/never make my list. For the same reason, don't really have an overused units list.

    Unused Options (Only when optional)
    Cult of Cadaron
    Cult of Olaron
    Medusa (no weapon choice)
    Acolytes (not yema)
    Cult Priest (non-altar non-BSB)
    Captain (non-BSB)
    All Characters (on foot - i haven't even used an unmounted mage since 2.0.2? or so)
    Legionnaires (hand weapons)
    Elven Steed
    Auxilliaries (shield)
    Death's Kiss
    Seal of the Republic
    Terrifying Visage
    Transcendence (Blessed Inscriptions is just better and same price)
    Ring of Shadows (never room on a character. Wizards never have room for another trinket. Combat characters need to shell out for offense/defense and don't have points)
    Elixir of Shadows
    Beast Master's Lash (I keep meaning to, need to run a monster list...)
    Wandering Familiar (combat wizards ftw)
    Beast Master
    Manticore (no cloak killed it)

    Unused Units
    Harpies (i'm not saying they're bad, I just don't like the aesthetic in the army)
    RBT (as above)
    Hunting Chariot
    Blades of Nabh

    Underused Units or Options
    Corsairs
    Auxilliaries
    Pegasus (tried once, was awful)
    Medusa (too pricey, bound spell is near useless).
    Hydra (I think I've used it once - feel like the Kraken is about as good, and it's significantly cheaper).
    Assassin (too hard to fit in with a general/bsb/wizard and have enough points for troops).
    Fleet Commander
    Academy Banner (tried once, might be okay, but finicky)
    Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.

    Legal

    Playtester

    Chariot Command HQ

  • New

    My thoughts:

    Not used
    Cult of Cadaron hero upgrade.
    Olaron hero upgrade- I keep wanting to, but its so costly.

    Death's Kiss - This I think is a points problem. If the only on foot restriction was removed then I think the points are ok. But with the restriction it should be a 30-40 point weapon, so you can still afford some defence.
    Repeater handbow on characters

    Cult Priest - the only build is on an altar. And this is mostly cause you can give the altar more armour. If you could give the altar 100 points of special equipment the Cult Priest would be entirely useless. On foot the story gets even worse, it actively reduces the damage out put of a unit whilst costing more than half of the unit. Its buff also doesn't even work for tower guard.
    Characters on Foot - T9A wide problem

    Divine Alter with Light Lance upgrade.
    Oracle Apprentice (any path)
    Corsairs (all option except vanguard)
    Dread Legionnaires without spears
    Dancers of Yema with Skirmish
    Hunting Chariot


    Underused
    Terrifying Visage - Standard size models only??????
    Dragon - Only ever used with an oracle on top.

    Seal of the Republic - Models on foot???? Foot character has like 3 or 4 attacks, reality is 1 or 2 wounds. Which means its a ghostly guard that doesn't even start "on"

    Pendant of Disdain - I would rather pay the extra points to take Death Cheater or destines call. Again this is a 30 point item.

    Elixir of Shadows - Doesn't seem thematic or usefull, needs a complete rework

    Academy Banner - Will be good when rending banner is finally removed from the game. Its honestly debatable if its even better than rending banner let alone being more costly.

    Dread Prince - Not a bsb, cant cast magic, problem with T9A
    Manticore - like all monsters not enough wounds
    Captain - if you dont want to take an altar bsb
    Midnight Cloak - Good on a few builds.

    Divine Alter separate entry, not too bad, but if you are playing an altar you may as well make it a bsb since they both need to play in the middle providing auras.

    Assassin - Foot character, very expensive, doesn't actually assassinate
    Corsairs with vanguard. (any upgrades)

    Blades of Nabh - very dicey and match up dependant. Spearmen end up doing enough damage without feeling like tissue paper.

    Repeater Auxiliaries - Static Crossbows are bad mmm kay
    Harpies - actually quite good, but dark riders are core
    Medusa - DE have strong magic, oracle or double acolytes are a must, why would I want another useless bound spell. Need to ditch the bound spell and add some turn to stone mechanics.

    Dark Acolytes with out Champion - Super expensive dark riders
    Dancer of Yema


    Often used
    Transcendence
    Banner of Gar Daecos
    Banner of Blood
    Wandering Familiar
    Amulet of Spite
    Dread Legionnaires with Spear
    Tower Guard
    Dark Acolytes with Champion
    Dread Judges
    Dread Knights
    Raptor Chariot
    Dread Reaper
    Raven Cloaks


    Autoinclude
    Cult Priest BSB on Divine Alter with Moraec's Reaping and basalt infusion.
    Dark Raiders(any upgrades)
    Oracle
    #freekillerinstinct
  • New

    Items:

    Not used: Deaths kiss. Too expensive, especially on captain. You have to take fleet Comd and alchemists alloy just to get 2+, what’s the point when you’re hitting less.

    Terrifying visage, too expensive to be confined to standard only.

    Seal of Republic, haven’t used it in 2.0 yet due to the obliteration of Foot Priest by the nerfbat.

    Cloak, I only play upto 3k games so more of a cost issue, but good item, meaning to try out on a peg oracle.

    Pendant, too expensive considering we’re still massively vulnerable to S3/4 attacks, especially with AP.

    Beastmasters lash, useless on foot due to speed, could work on a mounted beastmaster but you’re eating into valuable equipment allowance that does nothing for the character carrying it.

    Amulet of spite, very difficult to get dispel bonuses in v2.0 so I won’t be using, especially with Morarecs Reaping around.

    Academy Banner. Too finicky for me put great potential. More suited to higher point games were you’ve got room for multiple units of spears. Potential AP 4 will put the fear of Nabh into any tin cans on horses.

    Underused:

    Exilir of Shadows: I’ve had great success with it but you need to invest in the poison. Plus you want to be killing the target in one go or you’re in trouble. I wouldn't put it on PoBM as its a waste of points with the ward save.

    Transcendence: I’ll take it on a lord or Raptor BSB, probably a shade too expensive.

    Often Used:

    Moraecs Reaping, excellent, makes a badass out of a Captain or Oracle master especially in combo with Gar Deacos, competes with Hero’s heart.

    Ring of Shadows, I build lists around it. because catapults are OP and it’s boring having 15+ models deleted every turn by small arms.

    Wandering familiar, love it for foot mages, makes them too much hassle to try and kill. Even on mounted oracle is worth it. Shouldn’t be dominant though as it doesn’t leave any options for an additional artefact.

    Banner of Gar Deacos. Unless it’s an MSU I always put it on TG, it’s devastating on them and useful on dancers.

    Banner of Blood, Autoinclude on Raptors, any size unit, you can either pay 50 points for one more knight with one more attack or 50 points for 5+ more attacks on the charge. No brainier.

    Auto include: Closest would be Ring of Shadows which can make list building a nightmare.
  • New

    I don't think Death Kiss is over priced. DH equivalent is 160pts (+2S, +2AP, D3 wounds v +3S,+3AP, MW2) and it is my go to. The problem is DE princes aren't limited to on foot only, so it is a good item just that princes tend to not be on foot.

    My question was going to be how do people fit ring of shadows into their lists, but I see it is labelled as underused. So maybe they don't.
  • New

    Cam wrote:

    I don't think Death Kiss is over priced. DH equivalent is 160pts (+2S, +2AP, D3 wounds v +3S,+3AP, MW2) and it is my go to. The problem is DE princes aren't limited to on foot only, so it is a good item just that princes tend to not be on foot.

    My question was going to be how do people fit ring of shadows into their lists, but I see it is labelled as underused. So maybe they don't.
    The difference is elf fighty characters are unplayable unmounted. We don't have the survivability to let our opponent choose our character's combats. (R5 vs. R3 is a huge difference).
    Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.

    Legal

    Playtester

    Chariot Command HQ

  • New

    In my opinion: (copied from the structure)
    Items:

    Not used
    Death's Kiss
    Terrifying Visage
    Seal of the Republic
    Elixir of Shadows
    Amulet of Spite
    Pendant of Disdain
    Beast Master's Lash
    Ring of Shadows

    often used
    Moraec's Reaping
    Wandering Familiar
    Academy
    Transex
    Cloak

    Units entries:

    Not used
    Dragon, pegasus, manticore, horse, cold one mounts
    Blades of Nabh
    Repeater Auxiliaries
    Assassin
    Medusa
    Prince without chariot
    Captain
    Cult legate
    Hunting Chariot

    Underused
    Harpies
    Ravens
    Kraken
    Dread Knights
    Corsairs

    Often used
    Hydra
    Tower Guard
    Dread Judges

    Autoinclude
    Cult Priest on Altar
    Oracle
    Dread Legionnaires
    Dark Raiders
    Raptor Chariots
    Dread Repeater
    Dancers of Yema
    Dark Acolytes
  • New

    Squirrelloid wrote:

    Cam wrote:

    I don't think Death Kiss is over priced. DH equivalent is 160pts (+2S, +2AP, D3 wounds v +3S,+3AP, MW2) and it is my go to. The problem is DE princes aren't limited to on foot only, so it is a good item just that princes tend to not be on foot.

    My question was going to be how do people fit ring of shadows into their lists, but I see it is labelled as underused. So maybe they don't.
    The difference is elf fighty characters are unplayable unmounted. We don't have the survivability to let our opponent choose our character's combats. (R5 vs. R3 is a huge difference).

    Yep, especially DE as Aegis saves are rare.

    Which is probably another factor in why Captain BSBs aren't around when you can get a 4++ on the Altar BSB built in.

    I'm just saying I don't think it's a bad item nor undercosted, its other issues that see it not taken. 30-40 points for it would be ridiculous.
  • New

    Cam wrote:

    Squirrelloid wrote:

    Cam wrote:

    I don't think Death Kiss is over priced. DH equivalent is 160pts (+2S, +2AP, D3 wounds v +3S,+3AP, MW2) and it is my go to. The problem is DE princes aren't limited to on foot only, so it is a good item just that princes tend to not be on foot.

    My question was going to be how do people fit ring of shadows into their lists, but I see it is labelled as underused. So maybe they don't.
    The difference is elf fighty characters are unplayable unmounted. We don't have the survivability to let our opponent choose our character's combats. (R5 vs. R3 is a huge difference).
    Yep, especially DE as Aegis saves are rare.

    Which is probably another factor in why Captain BSBs aren't around when you can get a 4++ on the Altar BSB built in.

    I'm just saying I don't think it's a bad item nor undercosted, its other issues that see it not taken. 30-40 points for it would be ridiculous.
    With the on foot only restriction? No, 40 points sounds about right. It will still rarely see play, but someone might try for a budget captain with it and seal. (I think it would still barely see play then, but it might see play). It needs to be cheap enough to make people decide it's worth not using a mount. Opportunity cost is the driver of 'balance' here.
    Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.

    Legal

    Playtester

    Chariot Command HQ