The road to 205 - Chapters of the Week: 20-2 (community)

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  • The road to 205 - Chapters of the Week: 20-2 (community)

    This week we'll cover the second third of our final Chapter of the Week - 20 Model Rules.

    This week's part consists of 20.A.26 Stand Behind up to and including the close combat weapons table in 20.E Weapons.

    In case you haven't already, please have a look at the general instructions here.
  • It's quite long this time, but in one week I'll have read all the rules just before they change.

    20.A.25 Stand Behind

    I may miss something but isn't simplier to just write "Ignore the Front Rank rule unless for models with Mismatching Bases." ?
    Sure it's good to remember it can be placed everywhere, and it can be added to my sentence, but the aim of this rule seems to simply nullify the Front Rank one. So I think it's better to start from this. :)


    20.A.32 Terror

    => may precise when the test is made (before charge reaction, non ?), the actual charge reaction is made "immediatly" so if no order, may the active player choose when apply the test ? well, I'm searching too far...


    20.A.38 War machine

    the last paragraph is not relative to the round base and not the war machine specificly ?


    20.A.39 War Platform

    => not sure, but isn't it simplier to list the thing it can do as a character (joining and leave unit, distribute hits) instead of adding a bunch of exception. My mind prefers to learn what I can do and have problem to consider having "something, less a substantial part of this something".


    20.A.43 Wizard Conclave


    => the rule state there is brackets, so I guess it have to be written "Wizard Conclave (X)" in the title


    A general statement about some universal rules : there is some which exclude to be joined by character without the rule. If I'm not fan of rules in rules too, but some intuitive are helpful, here I'm thinking of something like a rule/keyword :
    Exclusive
    Characters can only join units with one or more models with exactly the same Exclusives Rules, and vice versa.
    => apply to Towering Presence, Unbreakable, Unstable, (Chariot - now they can be joined by non-chariot character), rules in army book like Ghostly form of sylvan spirit (didn't check all) - War Platform would ignore the Exclusive of Chariot/Towering like now.
    It's not straight better, less design option but a little easier to remember. So, just a thought.



    20.B
    First: it's bizarre to me the Character section is in this chapter when the command group have is own section, as lately the general is not an Universal Rule while the BSB is, it feel to me some inconstancy. It may be just a personnal taste with the old rules in mind too, but that is said once at least.
    But it imply designer can add "Character" to some unit outside character, it may be interessant, even if I'm sure they wouldn't take the opportunity.


    20.B.7 Distributing hits

    => not better in the "14. Attacks" chapter ? note the last sentence is about champion. :whistling:


    20.C.a

    Double bracket at the end.
    +
    numbers of the rules listed below are tied to this sub-chapter (20.C.a.1), it may be better to call them 20.C.1, etc


    20.C.1/7 Aegis/Fortitude

    => I don't like the way the counter are introduced here, maybe present those like a reminder or just introduce that it have an interaction with such rule we'll see after
    +
    Fortitude : natural 6+ => natural '6' in order to use the same as lethal strike (and there is no 7 on a D6)


    20.E

    As weapon use some attack attribute, I think I would place them after personnaly. Not a big matter still.



    Paired weapons => last precision in brackets is so a legacy from the time it was called "additionnal hand weapon". It sure clarify, but I'm less sure it have an importance with other possible interaction now.


    To change the mind, I miss the old "two handed weapon", so instinctive. I see it writing like this :

    In 20.D.b Shield

    Shield: +1 Armour. A model using a Two-handed weapon cannot use this bonus against Melee Attacks.
    => then replace all the big sentences by "Two-handed weapon"




    May I helped.
    Armies : DE, UD - Co-organise : Nain Gros-Gnon
  • Minidudul wrote:

    20.A.25 Stand Behind
    I may miss something but isn't simplier to just write "Ignore the Front Rank rule unless for models with Mismatching Bases." ?
    Sure it's good to remember it can be placed everywhere, and it can be added to my sentence, but the aim of this rule seems to simply nullify the Front Rank one. So I think it's better to start from this. :)
    Front Rank does not only tell you where to place a model inside a unit but also when and how you can move it and how to handle removing casualties. So stand behind and front rank don't cancel each other out 100%, stand behind only let's you ignore part of front rank.

    20.A.32 Terror
    => may precise when the test is made (before charge reaction, non ?), the actual charge reaction is made "immediatly" so if no order, may the active player choose when apply the test ? well, I'm searching too far...
    The fact that a unit that fails the test has to declare a flee charge reaction implies that the test is taken before charge reactions are declared, but it sure can't hurt to explicitely say so.

    20.A.38 War machine
    the last paragraph is not relative to the round base and not the war machine specificly ?
    Yeah, that's a bit jumbled. I believe all war machines are on a round base, and all models that are on a round base that can be charged are war machines. I'll sort it out (once we have the decision of what to do with round bases in the future ;) ).

    20.A.39 War Platform
    => not sure, but isn't it simplier to list the thing it can do as a character (joining and leave unit, distribute hits) instead of adding a bunch of exception. My mind prefers to learn what I can do and have problem to consider having "something, less a substantial part of this something".
    I guess this way it's "safer" not to miss anything. There are other aspects for which war platforms are considered characters (bodyguard, health pools, etc.) so overall this list might become longer than what we currently have.

    20.A.43 Wizard Conclave
    => the rule state there is brackets, so I guess it have to be written "Wizard Conclave (X)" in the title
    Yeah.

    A general statement about some universal rules : there is some which exclude to be joined by character without the rule. If I'm not fan of rules in rules too, but some intuitive are helpful, here I'm thinking of something like a rule/keyword :
    Exclusive
    Characters can only join units with one or more models with exactly the same Exclusives Rules, and vice versa.
    => apply to Towering Presence, Unbreakable, Unstable, (Chariot - now they can be joined by non-chariot character), rules in army book like Ghostly form of sylvan spirit (didn't check all) - War Platform would ignore the Exclusive of Chariot/Towering like now.
    It's not straight better, less design option but a little easier to remember. So, just a thought.
    We already discussed this at one point iirc, but I don't recall why we didn't do it eventually ;) . I'll bring it up again in RCT.

    20.B
    First: it's bizarre to me the Character section is in this chapter when the command group have is own section, as lately the general is not an Universal Rule while the BSB is, it feel to me some inconstancy. It may be just a personnal taste with the old rules in mind too, but that is said once at least.
    But it imply designer can add "Character" to some unit outside character, it may be interessant, even if I'm sure they wouldn't take the opportunity.
    We'll discuss.

    20.B.7 Distributing hits
    => not better in the "14. Attacks" chapter ? note the last sentence is about champion. :whistling:
    Yeah, if, where and how to move the attacks chapter and which parts of it is a tricky topic ;) . We're on it.

    20.C.1/7 Aegis/Fortitude
    => I don't like the way the counter are introduced here, maybe present those like a reminder or just introduce that it have an interaction with such rule we'll see after
    +
    Fortitude : natural 6+ => natural '6' in order to use the same as lethal strike (and there is no 7 on a D6)
    nice catch (;

    Paired weapons => last precision in brackets is so a legacy from the time it was called "additionnal hand weapon". It sure clarify, but I'm less sure it have an importance with other possible interaction now.
    I agree, but this is something we added recently after players frequently asked for it ;)


    To change the mind, I miss the old "two handed weapon", so instinctive. I see it writing like this :

    In 20.D.b Shield
    Shield: +1 Armour. A model using a Two-handed weapon cannot use this bonus against Melee Attacks.
    => then replace all the big sentences by "Two-handed weapon"

    We'll discuss.