V205 Discussion thread

This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

The latest issue of the 9th Scroll is here! You can read all about it in the news.

  • i mean you measure the distance between all model starting place and model final place, its should be egal or lower to march/advance move. (ignoring all obstacle for measure, it dosent matter)

    And to go to this point the unit should find a way to pass, using wheel and reform normal rules.
    Respect the 1/2", respect the center during reform etc..

    If you do so, in your exemple green cav unit, cant pass between blue and purple.
    cas-p.net / graphic & web designer.
    SE - VS - O&G - EoS / 9th age player.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Casp ().

  • Mad 'At wrote:

    The problem with the old Light Troops rule was twofold. If we were to simply only allow the unit to perform free reforms, the unit could travel immense distances around obstacles by conga lining, wheeling and reforming over and over again. You still have to end the move within your advance/rate distance (in a straight line), but you could move in a big U shape around things.

    So it was decided that the movement of Light Troop models should be measured along the path they actually take, leading to the second problem. This bullet point in the 0.204.0 rules:

    • For measuring the distance travelled by a model, check the path the model would have taken if it was alone and measure the movement around any obstructions (abiding by the Unit Spacing rule). Note that the unit nevertheless must abide by the Unit Spacing rule (including all Reforms).
    The phrasing "along the path the model would have taken if it was alone" is incredibly vague. RAW the 0.204. rules actually allowed this:


    The unit moves around the obstacles, in a theoretically infinitely long move. When measuring the distance travelled however, you can move each model individually, squeezing through much tighter gaps. This was of course never intended.

    An idea to solve it was to add that the distance measuring still had to be done along the path the unit took, but that becomes very hard to define.

    The intention of the rule is really simple. You should just be able to pick up the unit and place it down again where you want it, just making sure no model moved further than its move rate to get there. But it proved tricky to actually get that into functioning rules.

    By allowing free reforms but disallowing wheels, both problems are avoided. It might introduce new ones, but so far we haven't been able to see them.
    Frankly, I don't really see how the new rule makes that much of a difference. Under the new rules, you can still squeeze through a gap of width (one model + half an inch on each side). You just have to reform into a conga line, move through, then reform back. The only situation in which it makes a difference as far as I can see is in the kinds like in the diagram above, where the gap is L-shaped. Are light troops supposed to be just agile enough to get through an extremely narrow gap without getting attacked, but only if the gap is straight, not L-shaped? To me, this change seems like a quality-of-life reduction for a rules quality benefit that's extremely marginal at most.
    Sunna is not with the big battalions, but with the ones whose parts move with the best coordination.
  • the only time I feel cheated by the way light trops move is when they have sweeping attack, as the rules allow for the light troops to attack something outside their march range, if they manage to touch their target during reforming, while ending their move inside their allowed distance. That couild easily be corrected by adding to the text of sweeping attacks: the target of this attack cannot be farther away from the attacking units starting position than the maximum march range.
  • rolan wrote:

    the only time I feel cheated by the way light trops move is when they have sweeping attack, as the rules allow for the light troops to attack something outside their march range, if they manage to touch their target during reforming, while ending their move inside their allowed distance. That couild easily be corrected by adding to the text of sweeping attacks: the target of this attack cannot be farther away from the attacking units starting position than the maximum march range.
    "When performing an Advance Move, no model can end its movement with its centre farther away than its Advance Rate from its starting position. If a model in the unit performed any action during the movement (such as a Sweeping Attack), the distance moved is measured from the model’s starting position to the point on the Battlefield where it performed that action and then to its final position."
    p.51 BRB
    You got cheated, I think.
  • rolan wrote:

    the only time I feel cheated by the way light trops move is when they have sweeping attack, as the rules allow for the light troops to attack something outside their march range, if they manage to touch their target during reforming, while ending their move inside their allowed distance. That couild easily be corrected by adding to the text of sweeping attacks: the target of this attack cannot be farther away from the attacking units starting position than the maximum march range.
    No it doesn't.

    Not only do they need to be closer than their march, they need to have some spare movement to clear 1" from you after.
    Rules Questions?

    ETC 2016 - Referee
    ETC 2017 Warm-up Herford - Head Judge
    ETC 2017 Salamanca - Head Judge
    ETC 2018 - Team Sweden - Ogre Khans (ETC HYPE - CLICK ME!)
  • rolan wrote:

    the only time I feel cheated by the way light trops move is when they have sweeping attack, as the rules allow for the light troops to attack something outside their march range, if they manage to touch their target during reforming, while ending their move inside their allowed distance. That couild easily be corrected by adding to the text of sweeping attacks: the target of this attack cannot be farther away from the attacking units starting position than the maximum march range.
    The classifier is in the movement section.

    12.D.b Advance Move
    When performing an Advance Move, a unit can move forwards, backwards, or sideways, but it cannot move in morethan one of these directions during an Advance Move:
    Forwards: The unit moves forwards a distance up to its Advance Rate. During a forward Advance Move, a unitmay perform any number of Wheels.
    Backwards: The unit moves backwards a distance up to half its Advance Rate. For example, a unit withAdvance Rate 5″ could move backwards 2.5″.
    Sideways: The unit moves to either side a distance up to half its Advance Rate.

    When performing an Advance Move, no model can end its movement with its centre farther away than its AdvanceRate from its starting position. If a model in the unit performed any action during the movement (such as a SweepingAttack), the distance moved is measured from the model’s starting position to the point on the Battlefield where itperformed that action and then to its final position.

    12.D.d Reform
    When performing a Reform:
    • Mark the Centre of the unit.
    • Remove the unit from the Battlefield, and then place it back on the Battlefield in any legal formation and facingany direction (following the Unit Spacing rule), with its Centre in the same place as before.
    After the Reform, no model can end up with its centre farther away than its March Rate from its starting position. Aunit that has Reformed cannot shoot in the following Shooting Phase.

    21.A.a.16 Light Troops
    A unit composed entirely of models with Light Troops applies the following rules for Advance Moves and MarchMoves:
    • The unit may perform any number of Reforms, at any time during the move, and in any order. This does notprevent models with Light Troops from shooting this Player Turn.
    • ...etc etc


    21.H.a.5 Sweeping Attack
    This attack may be used by units containing models with Sweeping Attack. When the unit Advance Moves or MarchMoves , you may nominate a single unengaged enemy unit that the unit with Sweeping Attack moved through orover during this move (meaning their Unit Boundaries were overlapping, even partially). The whole unit makesthe Sweeping Attack against the nominated enemy unit, which is resolved when the March or Advance Move iscompleted. Follow the description in the unit entry. These attacks hit automatically and count as ranged SpecialAttacks. Each Sweeping Attack can only be performed once per Player Turn.

    *potential edit?*
    A Sweeping Attack cannot be performed on an enemy that the unit could not reach without going beyond it's Advance or March rate from its starting position that turn.

    -------------------------------------------------------------

    Very very easy to miss.
    At the least we should have a reminder in the Sweeping Attack rules that you can't sweeping attack something outside your maximum move rate, even if you could physically move the model over it.
  • Alrighty then, here we go!

    rolan wrote:

    the only time I feel cheated by the way light trops move is when they have sweeping attack, as the rules allow for the light troops to attack something outside their march range, if they manage to touch their target during reforming, while ending their move inside their allowed distance. That couild easily be corrected by adding to the text of sweeping attacks: the target of this attack cannot be farther away from the attacking units starting position than the maximum march range.
    And you were right, movement count from starting point to sweeping point and then to final position point!
    Hope is the first step on the road to disappointment.
  • Eisenheinrich wrote:

    As you may have noticed, updates to the BRB and AC just have been released (in the Beta rules tab).

    Please continue looking for errors!

    (Almost) everything reported and acknowledged in the error report thread (and more) has been implemented, so please check if these errors have been fixed properly.

    The colour coding from 204 to 205.0 has been removed. Due to technical difficulties ;) the changes from 205.0 to 205.1 are not colour-coded as usual. But you will find the most important changes in the change log.

    Note that some things didn't make it in time for this update (e.g. switching the parameters of Area Attack), but they will be fixed later.