.205 Warriors of the Dark Gods

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  • I'm trying 30 shielddudes with shrine in tonight. Been on the GW train for a while and I've been underwhelmed (its probably better now you get extra attacks though) so time to try for some res and some of this spikey shield dingback nonsence that I'm told is so good!
    Take a look at my painted army so far. Feel free to share a pic of yours!

    Pics of my ever expanding warriors army

    WastelandWarrior Painting League 2018

    WastelandWarrior Painting League 2019
  • My thoughts about .205 update:
    Overall, I think it is a nice update and in the right direction. So first of all thanks and congratulations to all people involved and who contributed to this, I like most of the changes.



    Path of the exiled: I like the change, fine. This helps both fallen and Forsworn as small units.

    Hell-forged armor: Biggest dissapointment in the update. Even though 5++ vs toxic is just fluffy and has no impact on points... It makes no sense and is not even useful. We were told that re-roll break tests led to tribalism and was OP, got it changed into re-roll march tests (…) and said that it was equally powerful and now we get 5++ versus toxic… I’d much rather have ledger of sould implicit [gain 1 veil token when miniature dies], at 1-2 points per wound bound to armor, could also be fluffy and definitely useful!

    Spiked shield: nice upgrade! It’s a pity though that it does not work on mounted, this would really help Chaos Lord and would let characters move away from the typical 2-hand weapons… And in the end armor is WDG strength, right??

    Hellfire: cool change, to me probably not enough (situational) unless we pay for veil walker (to repeat armor on monsters) but fine.

    SoS+Gladiators spirit: nice

    Zealot’s banner: looks cool but the limiting number of banners is the problem. If it come for free (as a banner) I woud not take it over relentless, if it were a mark I’d pay the points gladly.

    EH: It is a pity that we lose Shamanism due to how good the como of spells+attribute was. I like the new spells but time will tell if it is worth the price now. Warriors with 2-hand weapons (the most used core entry) will suffer from the loss of +1 Resilience…

    Chaos Lord: 2 very good changes: war dais and spike shield. We will have to see how things like wrath, symbol of slaughter and master of destruction combo with it… I think it could still use a price decrease.

    Feldrak Ancestor: nice point drop, I still don’t get why the loss of 1 HP after breath and the double tax on weapons.

    Veil walker: still incredibly expensive.

    War dais: interesting +1 Discipline!

    Warriors, Knights, CK: Happy with discounts but I still think the change is not enough to make up for loss of re-roll march test.

    Forsworn: The re-design is nice, the damnation new rule is cool and fluffy, we will see if it will remain a thing for friendly games or will see competitive play. I miss a 3rd attack + the option to have them in core (with DL as general!)

    Battleshrine: I also really like redesign, it is very cool, we will have to see if it fits in lists or contributes significantly as a mount

    Warhounds: Improved rule. Still missing light troops or ‘musician’.

    Chimera: relevant price drop. Enough…? I will try it! I still miss a 5th HP and OS 5 though.



    Now I will have a hard time deciding whether to include giant, chimera or forsaken one… I still think a FDE is suboptimal in comparison. Which I think accounts for very good internal balance in such categories.
  • Origin wrote:

    My thoughts about .205 update:
    Overall, I think it is a nice update and in the right direction. So first of all thanks and congratulations to all people involved and who contributed to this, I like most of the changes.



    Path of the exiled: I like the change, fine. This helps both fallen and Forsworn as small units.

    Hell-forged armor: Biggest dissapointment in the update. Even though 5++ vs toxic is just fluffy and has no impact on points... It makes no sense and is not even useful. We were told that re-roll break tests led to tribalism and was OP, got it changed into re-roll march tests (…) and said that it was equally powerful and now we get 5++ versus toxic… I’d much rather have ledger of sould implicit [gain 1 veil token when miniature dies], at 1-2 points per wound bound to armor, could also be fluffy and definitely useful!

    Spiked shield: nice upgrade! It’s a pity though that it does not work on mounted, this would really help Chaos Lord and would let characters move away from the typical 2-hand weapons… And in the end armor is WDG strength, right??

    Hellfire: cool change, to me probably not enough (situational) unless we pay for veil walker (to repeat armor on monsters) but fine.

    SoS+Gladiators spirit: nice

    Zealot’s banner: looks cool but the limiting number of banners is the problem. If it come for free (as a banner) I woud not take it over relentless, if it were a mark I’d pay the points gladly.

    EH: It is a pity that we lose Shamanism due to how good the como of spells+attribute was. I like the new spells but time will tell if it is worth the price now. Warriors with 2-hand weapons (the most used core entry) will suffer from the loss of +1 Resilience…

    Chaos Lord: 2 very good changes: war dais and spike shield. We will have to see how things like wrath, symbol of slaughter and master of destruction combo with it… I think it could still use a price decrease.

    Feldrak Ancestor: nice point drop, I still don’t get why the loss of 1 HP after breath and the double tax on weapons.

    Veil walker: still incredibly expensive.

    War dais: interesting +1 Discipline!

    Warriors, Knights, CK: Happy with discounts but I still think the change is not enough to make up for loss of re-roll march test.

    Forsworn: The re-design is nice, the damnation new rule is cool and fluffy, we will see if it will remain a thing for friendly games or will see competitive play. I miss a 3rd attack + the option to have them in core (with DL as general!)

    Battleshrine: I also really like redesign, it is very cool, we will have to see if it fits in lists or contributes significantly as a mount

    Warhounds: Improved rule. Still missing light troops or ‘musician’.

    Chimera: relevant price drop. Enough…? I will try it! I still miss a 5th HP and OS 5 though.



    Now I will have a hard time deciding whether to include giant, chimera or forsaken one… I still think a FDE is suboptimal in comparison. Which I think accounts for very good internal balance in such categories.
    After my last game I will prefer just to take 2 chimeras for the cost lower than FDE. At least it would be harder for enemies to kill them all at once.
    DH - main
    WODG - secondary
    OK - passion project for the future
  • I think chimeras are interesting now but I still doubt of their damage output... OS4 , S5 and only 1 stomp is not reliable. So, is the movement 8/20 [highly relevant for a unit that needs to go very fast to threaten enemy lines] + the 80 points difference worth vs a giant...?

    I guess in the end it comes to what you are using it for and how the rest of your army looks like... But I think the difference in points between a chimera (220), giant (300 with mandatory club), and forsaken (385) is close to perfect for what each unit provides. Obviously you have many other alternatives like wings, big brother, wizard giant, etc, and also the forsaken one is not just an upgrade but a different unit with random movement and exiled, but plays a similar role for me. Now, I'd like to see FDE to ~430p (+40 for weapons) so we would have a closer point gap between each monster in the army!
  • Chimeras are suprisingly resilent against not concentrated shooting, much more than giant due to 4+ armor. In addition they has good agility on charge and extremely good at supporting greater monsters. Now I only want for them to loose towering presence, since they are no longer that big and scary monsters they are used to be.
    DH - main
    WODG - secondary
    OK - passion project for the future

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Happy Aspid ().

  • premise, I played only 1 game with 2.05 but I test a list 1xunit to see any synergies (I wanted to understand, not to win)

    Ledger of Souls:
    very nice the fact that synergize with the unit of the bearer, opens to many options, especially for the dragonogre (see later)

    icon of infinity + hellfire: beautiful, really!
    Finaly i buy a stendard he can use any turn when I need! Or HE spell

    HE, I played it badly because I was still used to the old set-up but I see potential, I will test again

    Battleshrine
    good that can be in the unit, but expensive, more performing in a team context than a single, but i need more tests for understand...

    Feldraks
    Finally there is a real alternative to the chosen riders! perfect

    riders chosen offensive the right, in general they are expensive, now that there are the dragonogre there is an alternative

    hellmaw, particular I have to do other games to fully understand the mechanics and make the most of them

    the troops,

    badly bad, chaos warrior to expensive and little offensive in relation to cost, core are the best option.
    great weapon too expensive to have only 1 A support initiative 0 and the halberd is a luxury..

    barbarians are the logical choice but they do not synergize well with the rest of the army
    perhaps.
    I will try the barbarian hero with Symbol of Slaughter

    Flyers.. Why!?!? Hard targhet is essential rule for a lash.. Vanguard 6 is usless..
  • Daemonic engine wrote:

    That's my core next match

    WastelandWarrior wrote:

    I'm trying 30 shielddudes with shrine in tonight. Been on the GW train for a while and I've been underwhelmed (its probably better now you get extra attacks though) so time to try for some res and some of this spikey shield dingback nonsence that I'm told is so good!
    To @Daemonic engine and @Rothulf - why are you guys taking great weapons instead of halberds? Halberds on a max unit is a 60 point upgrade now over great weapons and it really punishes certain opponents.

    To @WastelandWarrior : I was also thinking about taking shields, just to see how tanky a warrior unit can get. I think if you have rending banner + zealot banner + movement banner then it's a good tank unit.
  • AutoHammer wrote:

    Daemonic engine wrote:

    That's my core next match

    WastelandWarrior wrote:

    I'm trying 30 shielddudes with shrine in tonight. Been on the GW train for a while and I've been underwhelmed (its probably better now you get extra attacks though) so time to try for some res and some of this spikey shield dingback nonsence that I'm told is so good!
    To @Daemonic engine and @Rothulf - why are you guys taking great weapons instead of halberds? Halberds on a max unit is a 60 point upgrade now over great weapons and it really punishes certain opponents.
    To @WastelandWarrior : I was also thinking about taking shields, just to see how tanky a warrior unit can get. I think if you have rending banner + zealot banner + movement banner then it's a good tank unit.
    I'm trying rending with shrine in, shrine takes hereditary spell banner and hereditary. Thoughts being, tank with shields (& hopefully alchemy, word of iron) use res from ranks and banners. Use hellfire in combat to whittle enemy before combat.
    Take a look at my painted army so far. Feel free to share a pic of yours!

    Pics of my ever expanding warriors army

    WastelandWarrior Painting League 2018

    WastelandWarrior Painting League 2019
  • AutoHammer wrote:

    Daemonic engine wrote:

    That's my core next match

    WastelandWarrior wrote:

    I'm trying 30 shielddudes with shrine in tonight. Been on the GW train for a while and I've been underwhelmed (its probably better now you get extra attacks though) so time to try for some res and some of this spikey shield dingback nonsence that I'm told is so good!
    To @Daemonic engine and @Rothulf - why are you guys taking great weapons instead of halberds? Halberds on a max unit is a 60 point upgrade now over great weapons and it really punishes certain opponents.
    To @WastelandWarrior : I was also thinking about taking shields, just to see how tanky a warrior unit can get. I think if you have rending banner + zealot banner + movement banner then it's a good tank unit.
    Just a comment to this, my meta at least has shown itself to be monster (res 5+) heavy, making great weapons much more useful. There's a bunch of treefathers, steamtanks, infernal engines etc. that I just can't handle quickly enough with halberds or hw+shield.
  • Metallo wrote:

    Flyers.. Why!?!? Hard targhet is essential rule for a lash.. Vanguard 6 is usless..
    Agree. Dwarves need vanguard because their maximum move is 9'. Chosen Knights can benefit from it, barbarians can and many other units, but Shadowchasers? With their speed of 20, they don't need vanguard 6! Considering that our army is strictly forbidden from having any semblance of special deployment this decision feels strange, especially after strict rules on portals were slightly lowered. I would prefer to have skirmish on Fallen or on dogs instead.

    PS: Halberds were transformed into luxury for some reason.
    DH - main
    WODG - secondary
    OK - passion project for the future
  • Krokz wrote:

    Happy Aspid wrote:

    With their speed of 20, they don't need vanguard 6!
    Every antichaff shooting unit in the game can threaten enemy chaff first turn. Flayers with 20" cannot. With 26" they can.The question is if Vanguard 12" is needed so you can not only do Sweeping attacks, but also hide from enemy LoS.
    May be even if it makes them less efficient first turn, hard target prevents the enemy from shooting all of them instantly. But still, even after nerf (in my opinion) I would take them over dogs. Vanguard 12' will make them utterly broken against armies with not enough shooting.
    DH - main
    WODG - secondary
    OK - passion project for the future
  • We decided Hard Target doesn't help them. When shooting is focused they still die like flies, and Hard Target does not help against Magic Missiles.
    Also interestingly you said Vanguard makes them better versus no shooting armies, well, Hard Target makes them over priced versus non shooting armies. Vanguard is useful versus all types of enemies, not just Shooting.

    Don't know about their playability personally. I think the price of 180 for Flayers with Lashes is too much, not for what they bring, but how much would I be willing to pay for a utility unit in WDG army. For 40 pts more I get a Chariot and will not die first enemy turn!
    I think even if current design drops to 160 points with lashes it would not be good enough, but I wouldn't go below 160 points, would rather return some Special rules on them like Hard target instead of lowering price further. They just die too freaking fast to have any impact. And since the rest of the army are usually tin cans with either R5 or 3+ AS, Flayers just seem like best option to shoot at.
    Army Design Team.
  • Krokz wrote:

    We decided Hard Target doesn't help them. When shooting is focused they still die like flies, and Hard Target does not help against Magic Missiles.
    Also interestingly you said Vanguard makes them better versus no shooting armies, well, Hard Target makes them over priced versus non shooting armies. Vanguard is useful versus all types of enemies, not just Shooting.

    Don't know about their playability personally. I think the price of 180 for Flayers with Lashes is too much, not for what they bring, but how much would I be willing to pay for a utility unit that will die first turn. For 40 pts more I get a Chariot!
    I think even if current design drops to 160 points with lashes it would not be good enough, but I wouldn't go below 160 points, would rather return some Special rules on them like Hard target instead of lowering price further. They just die too freaking fast to have any impact. And since the rest of the army are usually tin cans with either R5 or 3+ AS, Flayers just seem like best option to shoot at.
    I have tried to use them few times and ended up with impression that with lashes the best role for them is keeping your rear safe by protecting from enemy light troops and clearing out summoned beasts (one of the things the lashes are good against).

    Question: fluff-wise - what shadow-chasers represent as beings? Why they are named like that? I really thought that hard target was given to them to represent something important about them as wasteland beasts.
    DH - main
    WODG - secondary
    OK - passion project for the future