.205 Warriors of the Dark Gods

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  • .205 Warriors of the Dark Gods

    Ladies and gents, .205 Rulebook is in the Beta Tab

    After
    WDG Designers Notes: The Exiles
    WDG Designers Notes: Exalted Herald and BattleShrine

    Designer notes from me and @Palmu:

    Here, you can find short notes about the changes made to many things in the book - Hopefully they'll shed some light to the most immediate questions.

    Favor of Gluttony: New wording to specify that the effect doesn't work with Spiked Shield - Tankiness isn't the wanted focus on this Favor, within the current parameters of the Favors. As thus, we didn't want to create a situation where using a Shield becomes too favorable over other options.

    Unburnt - Feldrak special rule: Currently Feldraks are lacking in role within the army. While looking for one, we ended up on the idea of an innate resistance to Dragonfire, based on a short blurb in the Feldrak Ancestor entry of the full armybook, and built it into a general resistance against Fire - This giving the Feldraks a notable position in metas dominated by Pyromancy and Alchemy.

    HellForged Armor: Reroll March was too situational, while it was great for fast units and cowboys, block units almost never used it. During the design process, we landed on all damage based on exposure to the Veil being mechanically represented by Toxic Attacks, and saw protection towards this being a fitting effect for Daemon-created armor, as well as useful in helping against one of the few things that painfully shut WDGdown.

    Hereditary: While the spell wasn't a grand powerhouse, there are a few targets that it's excessively painful against, as well as comments about being too ineffective against others were brought forward. The casting value of the spell was far too high as well, largely due to this - In a compromise, we decided to lower the spells power in its best-case scenarios, but bring in some utility and a lower casting value in return for this.

    Symbol of Slaughter: Weapon with a negative effect combined with its positive one is an interesting design direction, but the effect used largely negated its positive side, due to often equaling -1 to hit. Instead of completely dropping the idea, we decided to instead go with an effect that doesn't make the character less powerful in combat, keeping to the fantasy of killing the opponent before they kill you. The only good elf is a dead elf.

    Gladiator Spirit: Far too limited before, and with the Spiked Shield change would have been all the more limited, if more powerful. Instead of trying to see if it works despite its previous unpopularity, we decided to make the effect more viable for any character. In the end, we decided to go with a simple armor increase with a decent defensive bonus, to make it easier for multiple characters to have access to good saves.

    Ledger of Souls: A Slight change on it means you can benefit from non HFA models as long as the character is in the unit in question, such as Barbarians. A quality-of-life boost to make the item more useful in armies that don't want to use Hellforged models.

    Lord of the Damned: Fairly decent, but there was the brainfart of LITERAL Lords of the Damned not having access to it. Now they do - Doomlords can also buy the item. Simple quality-of-life change, especially helpful for Exile armies that wish to not include any non-Exile humans.

    Chosen Lord: Unchanged aside from the new spiked shield working with Master of Destruction. No need to limit already fairly weak on-foot lords more.

    Barbarian Chief: The chiefs self-buff while joined to Barbarians is very underwhelming. We've given it a little nudge to make the character a bit more interesting when used in a large block of Barbarians. Notably has a larger impact in the Auxiliaries with their more powerful Lords.

    Feldrak Ancestor: The big lizard is a fun guy, but had a few too many limiting aspects to it...So we removed most of those limits - Now it doesn't need to be a General for the army to benefit from Primal Legend, but if he is, everyone gets to use his Discipline 9 - Even the Favored know to nod and listen when a monster the size of a house gives them orders. In addition, models with Fly are now playable in the army to remove ambiguity with Exalted Herald and its access to Fly, these models just can't use their Fly as long as the Ancestor is still standing. With the new Unburnt rule, it should also be far less easy to remove the big guy from the table through ever-popular Blaze spam.

    Dark Chariot: A quality-of-life change to a design silliness: Why didn't a Chariot on the WDG side have good Armor? Now it does. It's that simple.

    War Dais: Largely lacked a role in the army aside from enabling infantry lords a bit more. We thought it could serve a role at enabling Barbarian armies and Infatry lists more, as a proper leadership-focused character mount, an actual portable throne.

    Barbarians: Shields removed and made an option, largely a change made to accommodate the large amount of Barbarian models on the market that lack shields of any sort, as well as players who like their Barbarians without any civilized luxuries like "armor". In addition, it was fairly unreasonable for Barbarians to have Throwing Weapons as a dedicated weapon option instead of an extra, so they were turned into an extra option like the shields as well.

    Flayers: Unpopularity and ineffectiveness as chaff, enemy deterrent AND backline threat prompted us to change the unit, and to use it as a test bed for the new Vanguard rule - Hard Target has been changed for Vanguard (6") (also on Shadow chase mount). Perhaps they can now have clearer roles within the army?

    Warhounds: First-turn only effect proved quite ineffective in many cases, and didn't lead to much satisfaction while playing. This made them very dumb to use. Release the Hounds has been kept, but the effect has been made usable in ANY turn, if in a weaker form. May they eat other chaffunits more effectively.

    Feldraks: Lack of role in the army, and in direct competition with the Chosen Knights and often losing that combat - The new Unburnt didn't feel quite enough to bridge the gap, and with the Feldraks being perfectly sentient beings, having access to magical standards seemed like a logical step to take. Hopefully they will find their way to more lists now.

    HellMaw: One of the many offenders of causing Tribalism issues within the army, the Hellmaw went through a bit of a makeover to make it more viable with units other than the Warriors. One of its main themes is the interaction between mortals and the Veil, which we didn't want to skim over, so non-HFA units will suffer some damage from Veil exposure when they pass through, instead of being completely unable to do so.

    The portal explosions were also changed as part of the large design update into Veil-based damage in the book - Now causes Toxic Attack hits. Its radius was also fixed, to hopefully make it more enjoyable to play with, and around. Some armies might have suffered unnecessarily much for randomly massive blasts of Toxic Hits.

    Monstrous Familiar: Pentagram can be useful, but it's situational and fairly weak. We wanted the spells the Giant has access to, to be both impactful and fitting for the Giant+Wizard combination. In this case - Shiny thing make Bob happy.

    Krokz wrote:

    And lastly, next price changes for WDG will be in 2-3 months, so we encourage you to play the army and provide feedback as much as possible!
    Army Design Team.
  • At first glance, this looks just great :) Good job guys, well done!
    I'm not saing that only because everything bar the herald got buffed (well yes, this makes me happy of course), but maybe more importantly, it seems that some great models may see play more often, I mean dragon or FDA (symbol of slaughter seems to really shine on this guy - 9A Off7 S7 anyone?).
    Frankly, my first thought after skimming through the book was 'that's too good, they gonna nerf it' :D
  • Jawor wrote:

    How many armies have Toxic Attacks? VS plus one spell in game.
    VS have a few, there's like 3-4 breaths that have it, and a couple items spread through the armybooks.


    Krokz wrote:


    The portal explosions were also changed as part of the large design update into Veil-based damage in the book - Now causes Toxic Attack hits. Its radius was also fixed, to hopefully make it more enjoyable to play with, and around. Some armies might have suffered unnecessarily much for randomly massive blasts of Toxic Hits.
    While I like this change, was it considered how it hurts some of our units more than earlier?

    Most HFA units will have at least a 4+ save if not using a shield, or a 3+ if using a shield, the portals being Str 4 Ap 0 usually meant taking a few wounds but saving most of them on the AS.

    Now, we won't be wounded as easily but all our armor is useless against it, which hurt Warrior Knights a lot more than earlier I think.

    I think we've moved from a 4+ -> 4+ (25% chance to wound, 16% on 3+ save) to a 5+ -> 5++ (22% chance to wound) on regular HFA infantry.

    If we're talking about warrior Knights however, we've moved from a 4+ -> 1+ (8,3% chance to wound) to a 5+ -> 5++ (22% chance to wound.)
  • Xeonic wrote:

    While I like this change, was it considered how it hurts some of our units more than earlier?
    Yes.
    It was also considered that HFA units would ignore gateway explosions, but consensus was against it. Note that explosion range is now of fixed value, meaning you can adept to it easier.

    Personally I do not care if that is a nerf or boost to the army itself, because it is so minor it is neglectable. I just care that it is logical and easy to remember. And it would be easier to remember that HFA units ignore all Toxic wounds from Gateway source.
    Army Design Team.
  • The HFA change is terrible. :/ Every iteration of WDG book the armour gets worse and worse, why does one even bother giving such mariginal rules like aegis 5+ against toxic attacks? Not only are they very rare but the 5++ is no solid protection anyway...

    Let's say you fight 10 Censer Bearers or get hit by Breath of Corrpution or similar thing (Stygio breath maybe?) - what difference does new HFA make? On average you are preventing 1 wound at the most (due at least Res4 on every HFA model), what is the point...?
  • yedee wrote:

    The HFA change is terrible...what is the point...?
    Mechanically there isn't one. It's not looking for an upper hand in the game, it's just the end result of a process looking to give Veil based damage a mechanical effect and to explain why HFA units are immune to moving through areas congested with it while others suffer - HFA acts like a medieval hazmat suit.

    It's not meant to be a real upper hand, and it's not meant to cost much anything (and doesn't). It's a flavor rule. We wanted to keep HFA as a distinct entity on its own in the background.

    Whether this was a good move or not is the real question. Battle Focus would have been the obvious choice if looking for a real mechanical benefit imo.
    Life is hard when you're a skeleton
  • Palmu wrote:

    yedee wrote:

    The HFA change is terrible...what is the point...?
    Mechanically there isn't one. It's not looking for an upper hand in the game, it's just the end result of a process looking to give Veil based damage a mechanical effect and to explain why HFA units are immune to moving through areas congested with it while others suffer - HFA acts like a medieval hazmat suit.
    It's not meant to be a real upper hand, and it's not meant to cost much anything (and doesn't). It's a flavor rule. We wanted to keep HFA as a distinct entity on its own in the background.

    Whether this was a good move or not is the real question. Battle Focus would have been the obvious choice if looking for a real mechanical benefit imo.
    How about point cost then? Does substituting an actually uselful rule (re-roll break tests and later re-roll marches) for that mariginal "flavour rule" warrants any price decrease? Or rather not because it was supposedly free anyway?

    Battle focus is really poorly designed special rule that I wish wasn't there in the first place but it's infinitely better than 5++ against toxic. Why battle focus though?