9th Age as A Wandering Path - Where are we now, and where are we going?

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  • I will continue to say this, the best, biggest and cheapest resource we have is YOU.

    YOU have the potential to make or break it in your community. The street ain’t lined with gold and you will probably have to do a lot of donkey work yourself, but preach and they will come!
    http://www.bugmansbrewery.com - The largest most informative Fantasy Dwarf website on the net, covering every dwarfers needs from forum to tactics, balls to ships!

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  • Bugman wrote:

    I will continue to say this, the best, biggest and cheapest resource we have is YOU.

    YOU have the potential to make or break it in your community. The street ain’t lined with gold and you will probably have to do a lot of donkey work yourself, but preach and they will come!
    Believe me, there are those of us out there trying everything we can think of. Im a TO, I travel anywhere within 20 miles to play at someone else's location of convenience at someone else's time of choosing. I have armies for them to play, I have terrain, I buy them snacks and beer, I lose games to them to make things fun.

    However, if people are not independently curious about the game, it feels too forced for them to take hold. Not to say my efforts have not been in vein, but rather underwhelming in result. The thing is that in the US, game stores are usually pretty empty, and game clubs are non-existent. There needs to be another hook.

    This may just be an american attitude though, we are notoriously flaky.
  • There are a few things we as project can do central, like providing talking points and/or power points to introduce T9A for instance to a friendly local shop owner, pointing out the sails opportunities for him selling the miniature range he already has in stock for play T9A.

    We can also write extensive blogs how to start, build and involve a local gaming group/scene or howto start your own tournaments. We can provide howtos and help material.

    But the footwork, the actually doing it and promoting the game, we can’t really do centrally.

    Sure, we can (hopefully in future will) use the stunning art work we have more extensively to push social media and promote to people out side the wargaming scene and make them aware of our hobby and our product, put compared to the potential of actual footwork the player community as a whole and every single individual player can do in his direct and indirect social cycle, it’s basically nothing.
  • The Beninator wrote:

    The thing is that in the US, game stores are usually pretty empty, and game clubs are non-existent. There needs to be another hook.

    This may just be an american attitude though, we are notoriously flaky.
    I made a lot ( A LOT!) of sugestions in the american part of the forum how to start a public club including examples how it works in Spain almost all the replies i got were "that wouldnt work here" but no one, AFAIK, even tried (i did get some possitive replies via pm).

    I literally was asked last week by the head librarian of the public library in my town to do a workshop about rol playing games, miniature gaming with kids at the public library, it can not be that diferent in the US.
    Now I am become Death, the destroyer of worlds- elf hero on foot 2016
  • Average answer i got by non t9a players was
    - it s not gw game hence unofficial hence not "good"
    - "i have no 3h to play a game"

    If u consider the latter, well gw is moving in doing games more and more fast.
    Shadespire is a 40mins match game. I saw a tourney done in the.time we play one match.

    Now it s time gw release the "faster version of aos".. warcry...
    I dubt gw can support all previous games, hence some of them will be forgotten. Imho.

    So, let t9a free.
  • The Beninator wrote:

    Bugman wrote:

    I will continue to say this, the best, biggest and cheapest resource we have is YOU.

    YOU have the potential to make or break it in your community. The street ain’t lined with gold and you will probably have to do a lot of donkey work yourself, but preach and they will come!
    Believe me, there are those of us out there trying everything we can think of. Im a TO, I travel anywhere within 20 miles to play at someone else's location of convenience at someone else's time of choosing. I have armies for them to play, I have terrain, I buy them snacks and beer, I lose games to them to make things fun.
    However, if people are not independently curious about the game, it feels too forced for them to take hold. Not to say my efforts have not been in vein, but rather underwhelming in result. The thing is that in the US, game stores are usually pretty empty, and game clubs are non-existent. There needs to be another hook.

    This may just be an american attitude though, we are notoriously flaky.
    Thank you for the effort!

    I was always under the impression that the Americans demanded competition. Campaigns or small tournaments that lead up to bigger ones might be your hook. The Americans I know are very proud of being Americans and surprisingly enterprising. Winning or to be part of something that includes winning through skill matters, T9A is perfect for that.


    N3okorrales wrote:

    The Beninator wrote:

    The thing is that in the US, game stores are usually pretty empty, and game clubs are non-existent. There needs to be another hook.

    This may just be an american attitude though, we are notoriously flaky.
    I made a lot ( A LOT!) of sugestions in the american part of the forum how to start a public club including examples how it works in Spain almost all the replies i got were "that wouldnt work here" but no one, AFAIK, even tried (i did get some possitive replies via pm).
    I literally was asked last week by the head librarian of the public library in my town to do a workshop about rol playing games, miniature gaming with kids at the public library, it can not be that diferent in the US.
    Thanks for all your efforts!

    That library gig sounds interesting, you are going to give it a go?


    Shukran wrote:

    Average answer i got by non t9a players was
    - it s not gw game hence unofficial hence not "good"
    - "i have no 3h to play a game"

    If u consider the latter, well gw is moving in doing games more and more fast.
    Shadespire is a 40mins match game. I saw a tourney done in the.time we play one match.

    Now it s time gw release the "faster version of aos".. warcry...
    I dubt gw can support all previous games, hence some of them will be forgotten. Imho.

    So, let t9a free.
    The shift to faster and skirmish games is far older than that, in my perception it started about 3-5 years before the end times happened. Frostgrave was one of the first with huge success.

    For me personally something like Vanguard by Mantic is the most interesting. It builds up to the bigger battle at sets it in a setting. I like deep background. I would love to see something like that in T9A one day in the shape of live worldwide campaigns.

    I have not played Shadespire yet, but only hear good things about it. Seems more like a deck building game, that can also be fun. Warcry to me just shows that GW do not care and know what players want, their new model is to throw stuff faster at people than their brains need to catch up and say: "Hang on, why do I need this again?". Anything that does not stick gets dropped faster and faster as well, seems like you only get to play this summer's game. Next year something new!!!

    I so enjoy the peace and quiet that T9A gives me. No need to rush beyond the speed I can set for myself
  • tiny wrote:

    But the footwork, the actually doing it and promoting the game, we can’t really do centrally.
    There are several things here:

    1) some people like @The Beninator will put in a lot of effort and not get good results with getting new people in. As he says, it might be worth trying to market our game so that you can easily feed *interested* people to @The Beninator. Adwords on google searches for second hand Warhammer models maybe?

    2) many people will not put much effort in (thousands of them). Asking 5000 low-effort people to put more effort in is pretty unlikely to have much effect.

    3) It might be worth thinking about pooling knowledge about what works for recruitment in one easy to find place. Do posters in game stores work?

    4) What about making T9A business cards to hand out at games? What about business cards with a redeemable discount from one of our partner companies? Maybe contingent on signing up for an account on the forum? Maybe send those business cards out for free to anyone who asks for them? @piteglio @echoCTRL @ferny what do you think about this approach? Establish a sales funnel and teach our existing players how to be salespeople

    The post was edited 3 times, last by Auto2 ().

  • piteglio wrote:

    (a) keep the interest of the current playbase 10

    (b) create interest in old players (e.g. whfb) who do not play our game 10

    (c) interest a new player base 10

    (d) put official T9A products (of any kind) on sale over the internet 5

    (e) put T9A products on sale in local stores 9

    (f) have T9A books (rules) for sale 9

    (g) have T9A dedicated miniatures for sale 9

    (h) have a T9A videogame 5

    (i) have translated T9A books 1 (more translation is unlikely to be helpful and could even be harmful in some areas like Belgium/Netherlands)

    (j) lower the entry barrier from the rules perspective (simplified starter rules) 9

    (k) lower the entry barrier from the money investment perspective (cheap starter sets) 3
    (it's not a cheap hobby, but in today's world most people's hobbies are not cheap, consider e.g. skiing, sailing, video games etc. In general I am not a fan of cheapness)


    (l) lower the entry barrier from the time investment perspective (reduce the hobby skills needed to *start* playing) 9

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Auto2 ().

  • piteglio wrote:

    i find this thread very interesting, but with so much input it is becoming a bit difficult to follow. can i ask for a quick round-up of feedback? if you wanna "play the game", you can quote this post and intersperse your answers in between (feel free to add comments):



    according to your own view, on a scale from 0 (=not at all) to 10 (=very much), how important it is to...

    (a) keep the interest of the current playbase
    10

    (b) create interest in old players (e.g. whfb) who do not play our game
    10
    (c) interest a new player base
    10
    (d) put official T9A products (of any kind) on sale over the internet
    0
    (e) put T9A products on sale in local stores
    0
    (f) have T9A books (rules) for sale
    0
    (g) have T9A dedicated miniatures for sale
    0
    (h) have a T9A videogame
    0
    (i) have translated T9A books
    10
    (j) lower the entry barrier from the rules perspective (simplified starter rules)
    0
    (k) lower the entry barrier from the money investment perspective (cheap starter sets)
    0
    (l) lower the entry barrier from the time investment perspective (reduce the hobby skills needed to *start* playing)
    0


    i really think a few quantifiable answers to these few questions would help us all (players, staff and entrepreneurs) to "read the room" in a more efficient way.
    Take a look at my painted army so far. Feel free to share a pic of yours!

    Pics of my ever expanding warriors army

    WastelandWarrior Painting League 2018

    WastelandWarrior Painting League 2019
  • Auto2 wrote:


    (k) lower the entry barrier from the money investment perspective (cheap starter sets) 3
    (it's not a cheap hobby, but in today's world most people's hobbies are
    not cheap, consider e.g. skiing, sailing, video games etc. In general I am not a fan of cheapness)
    I remember starting WFB when I was 13 and I would have appreciated *a lot* a lower barrier of entry, and I imagine most young players would too. Money does not matter for people who have jobs, for young people and students it does matter. And they are an important segment of the population for hobby growth.

    Since you mention videogames, consider the barrier of entry of LoL or DoTA which is 0 (provided you own a pc or laptop, and LoL almost can run on a toaster).

    P.S. My first WFB battles were in the carpet of my neighbour with shoeboxes as hills and pieces of paper as forests.
    'He opened the battered book. Bits of paper and string indicated his many bookmarks.
    "In fact, men, the general has this to say about ensuring against defeat when outnumbered, out–weaponed and outpositioned. It is..." he turned the page, "Don't Have a Battle."
    "Sounds like a clever man," said Jenkins.'
    Terry Pratchett, Jingo!
  • piteglio wrote:

    i find this thread very interesting, but with so much input it is becoming a bit difficult to follow. can i ask for a quick round-up of feedback? if you wanna "play the game", you can quote this post and intersperse your answers in between (feel free to add comments):



    according to your own view, on a scale from 0 (=not at all) to 10 (=very much), how important it is to...

    (a) keep the interest of the current playbase 10

    (b) create interest in old players (e.g. whfb) who do not play our game 8

    (c) interest a new player base 9

    (d) put official T9A products (of any kind) on sale over the internet What is official? Who is offering the items for sale? As of know there are 9th Age supported models for sale on the internet by multiple different companies. keeping the same paradigm 7

    (e) put T9A products on sale in local stores 3, this is a dying method of sales and promotion. It is good for us if supporting model companies are present in local game stores.

    (f) have T9A books (rules) for sale 0, this is a dying method of sales and promotion.

    (g) have T9A dedicated miniatures for sale 0, this will limit our growth in the long run and makes dependent on an eco system that favors a few companies. Not a good idea.

    (h) have a T9A videogame 5, a video game will do a great job of promoting our game and making new players.

    (i) have translated T9A books 9, as an international game this is paramount.

    (j) lower the entry barrier from the rules perspective (simplified starter rules) 6, the starter rules are great for this, and it is an important part of getting new players. The first game someone plays can be a beer and pretzel game to hook them.

    (k) lower the entry barrier from the money investment perspective (cheap starter sets) 6

    (l) lower the entry barrier from the time investment perspective (reduce the hobby skills needed to *start* playing) 6



    i really think a few quantifiable answers to these few questions would help us all (players, staff and entrepreneurs) to "read the room" in a more efficient way.

    Army Design Team

    :KoE: :O&G: :SA:
  • Bugman wrote:

    Again I will note, we already have the biggest marketing tool going, YOU.

    People have to want to wargame yes, but clicks and adverts don’t really do this and I would wager that most advertising doesn’t work in the way it should and is incredibly oversold.

    Word of mouth and physical products being used by someone are and will always be, the best way.

    We are or here to make money, only to make a product that people enjoy and can use.

    If other people want to start companies and comply with licence, they can make money. It’s in thier own intrests to advertise, but again, any decent shop owner will tell you he will sell more of what is being played on the tabletops then what is just stacked up on shelves behind him.
    Well the thread has been a fun read so far. :D

    Running with the donation (buttons) angle. Is it within the project guidelines to facilitate renting out space at select Cons?

    For example: The project uses donations from the community to rent a space(s) at Adepticon after confirming with local club(s) that there are enough volunteers to run the demo space.

    If there is enough interest from clubs they could rotate on a yearly basis and do some hobbying to bring new terrain/table each year to the Con. May even do a video log of the weekend?

    Thus Bugman gets people off their backsides starting fires, Auto2 gets some promotion of the 9th Age to new and old players in a spot that clubs may not be willing to go due to rental fees, if enough volunteers are interested they can set up in the open gaming area to "demo" to those interested in seeing full battle(s) between the various factions after playing their own demo hopefully, and finally the companies that promote 9th age may get foot traffic from those who have just been playing or watching if they have a booth.

    I would pick the project's top 10 Cons they would like to have a presence in (should be a fun thread :P ), find out the rental fees for that year and set a hard donation limit to that total. The Cons would move up or down the list depending on interest from local clubs to host at the con.

    Leave printed books and magic cards up to the local clubs.

    ?( Anyways my two cents on how this might work for everyone.
  • elendor_f wrote:

    I remember starting WFB when I was 13 and I would have appreciated *a lot* a lower barrier of entry, and I imagine most young players would too. Money does not matter for people who have jobs, for young people and students it does matter. And they are an important segment of the population for hobby growth.

    Yes everyone would appreciate things being cheaper, but that doesn't mean it's a good idea. Because cheapness anticorrelates with other good things about a product, and those other good attributes are more important in determining whether you buy it (up to a certain point, where it just becomes too expensive). Like for example the attribute of whether you even know the product exists - clearly this is more important than how much it costs, and informing (lots of) people that a product exists is not cheap.

    I just did a bit of googling around and the average spend on children's toys over a child's lifetime is about €6000. For a particular holiday or birthday it's about €250.

    To get a 13 y/o to buy a product it doesn't need to be super cheap. €50 is fine.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Auto2 ().

  • Any idea on how much the average cost of each purchase of those 6.000 a year is?

    Because if the average is 10, even if it happens multiple times per month, a single item costing 50 will seem like a pretty high price.

    It's easier to sell 5 $10 miniatires than a single $50 box with 5 minis

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Folomo ().

  • entry barrier money wise is low. If you arent super picky about what army you want there are so many cheap deals on second hand models to be had on ebay and facebook trading groups.

    When I was a child I had to buy my models full GW price from GW and I still managed to build an army, using my school dinner money to bulk buy sweets and crisps and resell at lunch times. If kids want their plastic crack, theyre gonna get it!!
    Take a look at my painted army so far. Feel free to share a pic of yours!

    Pics of my ever expanding warriors army

    WastelandWarrior Painting League 2018

    WastelandWarrior Painting League 2019
  • WastelandWarrior wrote:

    entry barrier money wise is low. If you arent super picky about what army you want there are so many cheap deals on second hand models to be had on ebay and facebook trading groups.
    Well, the second-hand armies consist in 90% of useless core troops. QS is good direction as it focuses on Cores. But T9A has built an extra barrier making the game elite models focused. The models required for full game:
    - are less common on second-hand market
    - require deep system knowledge when making purchases
    - have less alternatives due to IP-related issues (not every company will feel safe making models e.g. for seekers)
    StormRider Games
    StormRider Facebook

    _____________Join my closed Facebook group: Åsklander Bar
  • WastelandWarrior wrote:

    entry barrier money wise is low. If you arent super picky about what army you want there are so many cheap deals on second hand models to be had on ebay and facebook trading groups.

    When I was a child I had to buy my models full GW price from GW and I still managed to build an army, using my school dinner money to bulk buy sweets and crisps and resell at lunch times. If kids want their plastic crack, theyre gonna get it!!
    IME, buying armies second handed in eBay or joining a wargame trading group are things only players with experience do, not people considering joining the game.

    There are far more alternatives today than GW, and kids today are not shackled to a single miniature seller like in the old days. If a kid today wants to start playing a miniature game, he can wait half as much time to get into a skirmish game compared to single min sized unit in a R&F game.