Acces to lists of last WFB 8th ed ETC lists?

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  • Teowulff wrote:

    Not to defend 8thEd but an occasional panic bomb/a few unfortunate rolls can also end a T9A game before it even started.
    Not really funny if 1st turn your enemy shoots a cannon, destroys one of your units, about one third's worth of points of your army subsequently panics of the board (even had it happen once with with a re-rollable 10s test on my general). I hadn't even moved a single unit and it was already over.
    I have had a couple of these, both for and against.

    Just remember we OPT to play a game where Dice are used.
  • wombat wrote:

    Just remember we OPT to play a game where Dice are used.
    I am not complaining. I was merely responding to the phrase

    "What kind of game make people paint their army, prepare their model, set it up the table, deploy their army and then end it in ten minutes because half of your army is Death without you move a model" ..
    ;)
    This forum need polls!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! - Playing/painting: SA, DE & HbE ..

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Teowulff ().

  • Although there has not been that much discussion on my previous post I'll come back to it as I said.

    Lich King wrote:

    I don't claim I'm knowing the whole and pure truth, nor do I want to convince anyone of my very personal opinion. But I will give you some (maybe for some of you) uncomfortable theses, we can discuss together.

    There are several points for me, why we should try to move off the old GW WHF way even more. Maybe in a way, so that an outsider couldn't even imagine, that only one of us has ever played WHF and same for the other way around. When I talk about moving off the GW WHF way, I mean especially in two different regards.

    1. Rulewise: this is especially concerning the redesigns for the upcoming LABs. For example the Vampire Covenant should indeed be playable with old WHF Vampire Counts miniatures. But we need to get rid of those things that are too close to what GW did. Just to make sure, I'm not speaking of copyright problems. Those things have been solved already. I'm speaking of giving the armies a new, very special and unique identity. Just a few ideas to show you, what I'm trying to express exactly...why do we stick to the number of bloodlines and don't increase or decrease it? Why do we stick with the bloodlines concept at all? Couldn't we find other solutions to give the players the diversity for their character setups they have nowadays? And I'm not talking about using other terms only!
    2. Fluffwise: first of all we need more fluff to be available. Just because we need to give the players an idea of what it means to be part of his/her faction. Who are those who serve in their armies and who are those who lead their armies. Simply giving them an identity. It is the most important key to encourage people to immerse deeper into the system and to do their very own thing in the end. That's what tabletop gaming is about. Grab up some rules, but don't accept them being carved into stone. Adjust them to fit your likings even more. It is your hobby, your hobby should bring you joy particularly.
    I'll come back to this topic in the evening, since I have some real life stuff to do now. But I'd love to discuss on this with you. At least I owe you a statement, why I think those points are so important for us! ;)

    Well, the question that now comes up is: why should we gain even more distance to WHF?

    As I said before, it's all about a very own T9A identity. I'll give you an example on what I experienced on my own.

    After the end of 8th edition WHF my gaming group decreased to 2-3 players. We decided to use the T9A ruleset, since many of our homerules were already included and we had high expectiations on the project itself. After a time I managed to get some of my friends into the game. They were new to tabletop games, but they enjoyed T9A and chose their armies mostly by which models they'd like to play and which army would fit best to them. We had no or little background at this stage of the game. Then we had many evenings enjoying our T9A battles. But one mate of my former gaming group told our newer players about the 8th edition and we laughed about the crazy games we had before T9A. We talked and laughed about purple suns on scouting vampires wiping out whole armies on turn 1, about Skaven items that eliminated whole units of hundreds of points, about all the crazy things that happened. Some of my newer mates then asked us why we decided to stop (because we obvisously had a lot of fun using it) using the 8th edition ruleset and instead starting to use the T9A ruleset. We told them of all those balancing issues, of games that were decided before the battle had even begun, of all the uncalculable aspects of the game. Nevertheless they asked us to have a big battle with the 8th edition ruleset to compare it to T9A. We made it happen and at the end of turn 3 a big discussion started. We agreed on ending the game at this point because it didn't make any sense to play it further, especially for the new ones. One big question they asked us was: 'how could you ever enjoy playing such an unbalanced game?'. Well, to be honest, it was all I expected them to ask. I told them about all the great background stories (pre Endtimes of course :D ). And they understood. They even started to pick up our old books and skimmed them. In the end they got catched themselves. And that was exactly that moment I realized myself how important background to such tabletop games was. It was the background stories and the lovely setting that made me invest years and hundreds of Euros (and Deutsche Mark :D ) into this game. The game itself has never been that good, but it gave me the opportunity to immerse deeper into this world GW had created. It gave me a chance to place myself into that setting and take part of the story in some way.

    Till now we have those players who got catched by the WHF fluff and adapted it to fit to their T9A army. Some of them even decided, mostly because they lack in time to master such a competitive game as T9A is, to give AoS a chance and they enjoyed it, mostly because of the background and not because of the game itself. One of them collected a great amount of Tzeentch and Slaanesh demons. Well, after the release of our DL 2.0 army book, guess what? He got catched. He got catched by the background in an immensive way so he decided to restructure his whole army. He rebased them all and started writing a fitting background for his army. He's already working on a whole BOOK based on the DL background and he's even planing to extend it to a trilogy. He asked me for advices to build army lists based on the pool of miniatures he had already bought and the characters he had already described in his stories.

    So, what's the conclusion of it all? I'm absolutely convinced that we could produce a very own identity for T9A and get rid of the 'just a WHF clone' arguments if we were courageos enough to release our very own background for T9A. A background that is not overly leaning towards what GW did for WHF. We do have an awesomely talented background team led by @Scottish Knight who could give our system the 'taste' it needs to become interesting for new players. And not only with the sidenote of being 'an all volunteer fan project'. We can compete with all those other tabletop games out there on the market. The only thing we need right now is more availability to what we've already got and the players' courage to follow the new paths we're building with the upcoming LABs as well as the ADTs will to explore those for us.

    Layout Team

    Translation Team DE

    VC Community Support

    Supporter of Veil of the Ages

  • Well, i dont know how far t9a went from wh since i stopped playing for about20y.

    But if we claim that wh got bad rules
    I can claim that t9a is not 100% prepared to develope an independent army list.
    I mean, lot of things are taken by older owner, just fixed some stats and given new name.

    Then u see chaos and demons splitted, and the.urge and.methodology to fix stuff is taking a lot. With mistakes and wrong decisions.

    Then u can claim t9a is more balanced. Sure, compared from tge old ruins of a game that was before.
  • New

    Teowulff wrote:

    IoRi78 wrote:

    no, was stupid. What kind of game make people paint their army, prepare their model, set it up the table, deploy their army and then end it in ten minutes because half of your army is Death without you move a model?I really don't understand how someone can defend something like this.
    Not to defend 8thEd but an occasional panic bomb/a few unfortunate rolls can also end a T9A game before it even started.
    Not really funny if 1st turn your enemy shoots a cannon, destroys one of your units, about one third's worth of points of your army subsequently panics of the board (even had it happen once with with a re-rollable 10s test on my general). I hadn't even moved a single unit and it was already over.
    Well it is a dice game....