Announcement SA: public playtesting feedback

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    • Played a 2400pts game vs @MeuhMeuh who fielded the HE. On ETC map 5 I think.

      I had:

      Slann with 4 spells of Light, the Veteran Wars gift, the Funneling the Winds gift, BSB and Scroll. No other characters.

      Core:

      3 * Braves with muso and banner
      4 * Hunters

      Special:

      2 units of Krox
      1 big Shrine Guard unit with Swiftness.

      1 Salamander.

      @MeuhMeuh had in his HE:

      1 Loremaster
      1 BSB lvl 1 metal
      1 Shadow caddy with Scroll

      2 small units of heavy cav
      1 big Seaguards

      1 big PG
      3 RBTs
      2*10 shadow warriors

      2 Eagles
      1 small Dragon knights

      We rolled for deployment and got the deployment Flank Attack. This was a heads up for both of us. I opted to have him start deploy even if I had option to go first myself.

      After his 4th(?) drop (all his 3 heavy cav and 1 Eagle) - I dropped all mine. The Flank Attack deployment severely skewed up my deployment as I wanted to close in on him - and he wanted to keep distance. I have now played the Flank Attack a handfull of times, and it certainly promotes mobility and poke. Fair enough I suppose,

      We ended up with me standing off centre to the East and him bog centre.

      MeuhMeuh made big 2 mistakes that cost him the game:

      a) he did not position himself off centre West, so his bunker quickly came under preassure

      b) a big roll on a 3d6 S4 missile on his Seaguards was scrolled t1 - meaning the Saurians could squeeze through light + black magic buffs when my Shrine Guard eventually hit his.

      Thoughts on the list:

      All skink core is stupid, but promoted by the current version. Id really like to see: unit size for Saurus Warriors inceased to 15 and a bigger discount for starting size. 9 ppm is somewhere to start. Then pay 1p for replacing the spear with a handweapon. 165 pts for 15 Saurus Spears FCG seems interesting. 180 if bringing shields. Then 11 ppm for every model above starting size. Could even make units of 20 spears with T-rex spawning useful @ 240 pts FCG.

      In general MSU is really not promoted and especially not for units with mediocre or poor initiative. I think a bigger focus on MSU and starting size discount would improve the armybuilding and games greatly.

      Compareing it to the discussion that has been had over at the WotDG forum concerning warriors - I think @There Is No Spoon and @saint_barbara have solid reasoning on this subject worth giving a spin.

      Salamander did not contribute in this game - mainly because I kept it shielded and screened. Opponent was very aware of its capabilities. The Salamander - and other moving flamethrowers - should probably have adjustments to how they function.



      Cheers,

      -H-
      Make T9A armies clash again! #BringBackBattlelines

      Hermund Vigerust Endressòn Furu - Savage Sage of the Norse
      Faux-pro player and ETC vagabond.
      Enjoys the company of deluded nerds and women of unquestionably low morale.

      For questions of tactics, The Savage Arts of Playtrolling

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Herminard ().

    • Game played vs @Hovado2. I think he is qualified opposition and have lost to him previously. 2500 pts.


      I had:

      Slann with 4 spells of Light, the Veteran Wars gift, the Funneling the Winds gift, BSB and Scroll. No other characters.

      Core:

      1 * Big Skrox with Warbanner.
      3* Hunters

      Special:

      2 units of Krox (8 hardened + 10 normal)
      1 big Shrine Guard unit with Swiftness.

      2 Salamanders.

      He had:

      Lvl 4 on Peg Fire (3++ ranged, +d6 to one dispel)
      lvl 1 Fire (Scroll)
      BSB (Halberd, Blood Armour, Dusk Stone)
      2 Assassins with "Manbane" (the poison that gives wounding on 3+ in cc and shooting)


      Xbows
      4 * Dark riders

      Big executioners
      3*RBT
      2 Hunter Chariots
      2 * medium shades

      We rolled diagonal deployment. He had first drop. Did not place all. I placed all mine. This was a mistake - and I knew it. Just didnt bother to be too thoufhtful with the whole process.

      Game started as a pokeoff with me making several rushed mistakes- like leaving units barely in 24" range of shooting and 3d6ing 3d6 magic missile in a 4/4 phase over 2d6 + banishment (picking 62,5% chance + 66,67 > 83,3% + 72,2% for near identical result is just not playing with my head attached. But I suppose this can happen in games too).

      Mid game I caught his shades and assassins with the t4 krox (I really cannot decide if I like T4 or T5 more - both have their absolute merits). Big Skrox and skinks counterpoke on the Dark Riders and magic missiles + AoE Pha means I am gaining ground in a game I started off in a bad manner.

      Late game saw him finish off one of my Krox with shooting - Skrox deplepted but not dead and one Skink unit gone (he focused alot of dice on bubble +1 to wound and Burning Ramparts on the Shrine Guards). Solid descisions I would say.

      He also pushed out with his Executioners chaseing off my Skrox (more than happy to get out of all his shooting) - in return my Shrine Guards pushed up and landed a charge on the Executioners t5. His scroll was already gone to a bubble pha earlier - so with light and black magic I got through enough buffs that I broke him and ran him down - effectively sealing a 15-5 win in my favour - with a 138 point margin. 11-9 in my favour with a 144 point margin if I dont get the Executioners + their banner + BSB + his bonus. But possibly another round of magical poke would have landed me his lvl 1, one of the Hunterchariots or another unit of Dark Riders.

      Nice close game. Dread Elves still play on classical strings of poke, mobility, pace and elites and remain solid I think.

      Performance of units:

      Slann - B+, top game. Economybuild with 6 spells offer alot, even if it is higher risk.

      Skrox - B+, top game. Big bulk, counterpoke and decent durability is a winner in MSU pokeoffs. Soaked dice (took a boosted burning bolts to the face) and zoned well.

      Hunters -D not their best game. Very soft targets to firemagic and have a hard time reaching the opposition - also offer little of screening value vs RBTs on hill and mobile shooty chariots.

      Shrine Guards - C/C+, decent game. Contribute very little unless they get a chance at something like the Executioners, but in this game they did. Did nothing else but conserve points and be glorified bunker rest of the game.

      Krox- Flat C. One took several rounds of pounding and nearly lived to tell the tale. The other caught the shades with both the assassins in them and ran them down. Overall not their best type of game with 5 S6/7 multiwound bolters on the opposition side - but reach and footprint made them ok-ish. One of them made their points back + conserving their own. The other died with nothing but some chased off DR to show for it.

      Sallies - D. The range was too much for them to deal with. Tried to save the bacon on the pounded T5 krox by acting as screens, but failed and nearly died for it. Did not get a single shot off and took up valuable space behind hill. The 18" template option would have been very strong in this game. Spike Lizzards would have been a little better - since longer range and cheaper - but massed ranged poke is one of the conditions Saurians still hate to work under.


      How other things would have fared in this match:

      - Saurus and Swarms would have done very little or noting.

      - Skink chief on birdy with ze big T-Rex Bow just have been a liabilty. Triceratops Chief too. 48" on bs4 S7 vs Large Target means one risky round of shooting vs his mage with 3++ and maybe noe more round if I had gotten a juicy hit and felt suicidal.

      - Maceodon could have been ok-ish to have for more angles on the magic missiles. Ws 5 on Shrine Guards is very nice - but unlikely to happen when playing solid opposition. He would rather just not engage then.

      - Spinosaurus with champ upgrade would have been ok-ish too. Channel and beacond angles and more spells. 180 pts for 5w with 4+ save and t5 is not something that would normally sustain in this match though.

      - Pteradons would have done ok - probably forcing him to deploy worse. Pterodactyles would have done well - ItP being the top difference. Could have turned the game with some luck.

      - Chameleons would have done worse than Hunters - even if they got a head start with scouting (remember I want him to overextend with scouts - as he did - 460 pts to me).

      - Saurus Raptor Riders - no. Have infact generally not performed well for me. M7 is nice, 4 attacks each is nice, lance is nice, predator is very nice - still hardly ever find decent spots to come in. Same goes for cowboys actually. Hah - I had forgotten them. Wow. Forget cowboys. Thats a new one. Well. It is treue though. The durability and grinding are both much worse - their breaking power never was great - and since I need to invest in a full scale buss (8-9 raptor riders and a muso is bare minimum) to keep them safe vs poke now - their increased cost and overpriced mundane items -> left on shelf. Even if I have fielded cowboys on a regular basis since 6th ed - ha ha.

      - Croxisaurus Ancient could have been ok. Maybe. If it had different rules at a different cost.

      Just stating playtested opinions here. So far in 9th I am closning in on 60 games played and probably spectated same number of quality games.

      To just re-hash on an earlier statement - magic and cost structure hardly - if at all promotes (non-shooty) MSU. Would be cool to see things like 10-15 Saurus, 5-6 raptor riders or 3-4 krox be a reasonable choice.

      I consider playtesting for Saurian Ancients mostly done for this iteration. Off to playtest Sylvans.

      Cheers,

      -H-








      Cheers,

      -H-
      Make T9A armies clash again! #BringBackBattlelines

      Hermund Vigerust Endressòn Furu - Savage Sage of the Norse
      Faux-pro player and ETC vagabond.
      Enjoys the company of deluded nerds and women of unquestionably low morale.

      For questions of tactics, The Savage Arts of Playtrolling
    • Another tournament is behind me. On last tournament i was playing with Orc and Gobos and the only matchup that i lose was aginst Saurian Ancients, so for the last tournament i change my Orcs with SA. I must say that i played 2 games with them before tournament, so i am not the best player with them, if i hade few more games and i change the list a bit i could be top 3.

      My list was MSU(20 drops ;)), almost pure shooting and almost no CC, as i don't think SA CC is good enought if you compare it with the best CC races. So under the line i had more than 160 POISON shoots, 3xtemplate S1+1 to wund that i boost with fire lore to be +2 to wund NO armor save, and 2x spike lizard for flyers and redirections.

      Anurid High Priest (general) 490pts

      Level 4; Path of Fire
      Funnel the Winds, Telepathic Control, Alternate Way of Thinking(Metal), Earthing Wand, BsB

      Skink High Priest 185 pts

      Level 3, Path of Light
      Dispel Scroll

      12x Skink Hunters 92 pts

      Javelins

      12x Skink Hunters 92 pts

      Javelins

      13x Skink Hunters 98 pts

      Javelins

      13x Skink Hunters 98 pts

      Javelins

      12x Skink Braves 60 pts
      12x Skink Braves 60 pts
      12x Skink Braves 60 pts
      13x Skink Braves 65 pts


      6x Skink Braves 70 pts
      6x Skink Braves 70 pts
      3x Skink Sky-Riders 115 pts

      Pterodactyl

      3x Skink Sky-Riders 115 pts

      Pterodactyl

      Maceosaurus 120 pts
      1xSpike Lizard 63

      Pteranodon Hunter Spikes

      1xSpike Lizard 63

      Pteranodon Hunter Spikes

      2x Salamander 140 pts

      Spout Venom

      1xSlamander 70 pts

      Spout Venom

      1xTriceratops 185 pts

      two Giant Blowpipes

      1xTriceratops 185 pts

      two Giant Blowpipes


      The tournament had around 40 players i was 7 at the end. I played against, Rats, Orcs and WoC i didn't play one game vs HE as he beg me not to as he was tired so this game was 10-10, all others i won AVG 13-7.

      I must say that this list with few changes is at least very strong if not OP as i had bad luck with opponents(i get 2 WoC of 3) and this is not my army and i had only 2 games with them before tournament, my worst opponent is WoC as i have almost no CC and he is very havely armored so poison won't do much, but i focus on big targets Chimera, Demon Princ and his redirectors and i throw my 60 points skinks and units to redirect his 2 or 3 blocks and tried to get flank charg with Fly units or monsters, if SA are OP then i need to say that WoC lists play on their own, my opponents were bed players and they won the tournament as nobody can stop them in CC, they just go forward, it reminds me on AoS you go to CC and roll the dice, juhej...
    • I think this list is ok, and probably a solid contribution to a team composition.

      I can see how it can get shot down quite brutally by multithreat list that dont have any big targets though - so I would probably just let the meta do its work with this.

      Cheers,

      -H-
      Make T9A armies clash again! #BringBackBattlelines

      Hermund Vigerust Endressòn Furu - Savage Sage of the Norse
      Faux-pro player and ETC vagabond.
      Enjoys the company of deluded nerds and women of unquestionably low morale.

      For questions of tactics, The Savage Arts of Playtrolling
    • 24003hrs?
      ExpertTournament
      3?4?
      NoNo
      Y

      Coatl, Master of Winds, Alchemy, General, Dispel ScrollSaurian Veteran, Carnosaur, BSB, Armour of Destiny, Lance, Shield25 Skinks, AHW, Poison, Full Command7 Croxisaurus, Hardened Scales, Standard, MusicianSalamanderVampire Lord, 4+ ward, Teeth, Von Castlestein, StormcallerWraith Hero20ish Skeletons, Full CommandVarkolak, Fly8 Wraiths
      Skink High Priest, Palanquin, Plaque, Pathmaster: LightSkink Captain, Alpha Pteranodon, Light Armour, Shield, Lance, Dragonhelm20 Skinks, Full Command5 ChameleonsSalamanderWraith Hero30ish ZombiesVarkolak, Fly
      Skink Captain, Alpha Pteranodon, Light Armour, Enchanted Shield, Lance12 Hunters, Javelins5 ChameleonsMaster Necro, Scroll, Necromancy30ish ZombiesVarkolak, Fly
      12 Hunters, JavelinsMaster Necro, Necromancy, Bound Danse Macabre10 Ghouls, Skirmish
      12 Hunters, Javelins10 Ghouls, Skirmish


      Game ended up about 1300-900 to my opponent, though I did have some awful dice in places.

      The investment on magic was somewhat rendered moot by my stupidly going for a big cast in turn 1 and miscasting all the levels off my Light caster. Alchemy felt solid but unexceptional - but this isn't really its best matchup. Final Trans felt like a big risk to cast. Master of Winds gave me consistent big phases, but then two in a row I managed to fail my first spell needing an 8+ on 3 dice, which rather reduced its impact.

      The skink captains were useful redirectors and threats on the flanks, but they felt too fragile to engage hard targets and didn't chew through what they did engage quickly. If I took them again I'd be tempted by cheap magic weapons. (This said, they were able to threaten units that the equivalent skyriders would have gone nowhere near, so it's at least some benefit).

      Massive top performer were the poison/AHW skinks with palanquin high priest. They went through a varkolak (in one round before it got to attack), then got charged by another varkolak and ten skirmish ghouls and ate them for breakfast - also in a round - then went into a zombie bunker, killed the master necro out of it and finally succumbed to weight of attacks. Admittedly this is the ideal matchup for them and they were my only unit to have decent dice, but they did all of the above without any magic buffs at all. (I was running them 6 wide, for the record). Poison and hatred go very well together. I didn't actually shoot with them much other than one stand and shoot. It must be said that the unit did cost 465pts and did give up its points in the end.

      The crox were solid, but the game kept aligning such that they only clipped in on things, and I failed multiple fear tests. Still, unit survived to game end, depleted.

      The carnosaur vet bsb felt like a useful tool in my deployment, then promptly charged through a ruin, overran, and lost three wounds over the pair of dangerous terrain tests even past ward save :( It was promptly eaten alive by a varkolak - rather ingominious performance, and one that makes it hard to rate.

      The game was bottlenecked such that my salamanders and skinks didn't fire much, but the potential felt extremely threatening, and the shots I did get off killed a lot of infantry.

      The game somewhat came down to my initial poor magic decisions (amplified by some poor dice), then inability to really deal with the Wraiths as a result. My skinks made a mess, but not enough of one to save the game; the crox hung on but didn't kill much because of the aforementioned clipping combats and poor Fear rolls.

      My feeling was that, wraiths aside, I had both more combat power and more ranged potential. Then again, it was a somewhat extreme build I was facing.
    • As promised, here is a game with a Saurian Ancients list with no skinks. I went against @OldOne and his test list of Orcs n Goblins

      Size of Game 2500Length of Game (time) 3h
      Player Experience Level ExpertOpponent Experience Level
      # of Game With Current Draft 2# of Game with Current Draft
      9th Age Beta v0.109th Age Beta v0.10
      If you felt game was 'generally balanced' YIf opponent felt game was 'generally balanced' Y


      LordsHeroesCoreSpecialRareLordsHeroesCoreSpecialRare
      Saurian Ancient, Shield, Sword of Might, Armour of Destiny, Holy Icon, Gem of DragonfireN/A20 Saurian Jaguar Warriors, Spears, Standard, Musician, Standard of Prosaic Days2x 5 Raptor RidersSalamander, Spout VenomIron Orc Warboss, 2+/5++ save, +3 attack swordIron Orc Big Boss BSB, Crown of Dominion35 'Ead Bashers, Additional Hand weapons, Full Command2x Wolf ChariotChoice 1
      20 Saurian Jaguar Warriors, Spears, Standard, Musician25 Temple Guard, Full Command, Icon of Relentless CompanySalamander, Spout VenomGreat Shaman, lvl3 Big Green Gods, Scroll, Iron Icon6 Spider Riders8 Trolls
      5 Serpent Swarms, Scouts6 Caimans, GW, Standard, Musician, Hardened ScalesGreat Shaman, Lvl3 Wilderness5 Spider Riders30 Iron Orcs, Full Command
      5 Serpent Swarms, Scouts2 Spearbacks, Pteranodon Hunter Spikes2x20 Forest Goblins, Skirmish, throwing weapons
      2 Spearbacks, Pteranodon Hunter Spikes

      So I ended up with a list that uses Serpent swarms for early harrassment and is based around 4 decent combat blocks and some combat support in the form of Spearbacks (if need be) and Raptor Riders. My opponent had a 2 big elite orc blocks, a big unit of trolls and then some support (skirmishing goblins, scouting spider riders and the chariots).

      Highlights:

      - Pregame: I was reluctant to vanguard when dealing with more powerful combat units that had better initiative, so I opted for a flanking position of the serpents and my opponent chose to block my vanguard with his spider riders anyway. The orcs ended deployment first and chose to get the first turn.

      - Serpent swarms: one unit squared off against a forest goblin unit inside a forest, and managed to grind them down after 4 rounds of combat, with only one base left. The other unit of swarms dealt with a chariot and then wandered around, with no more good targets present.

      - Shooting didn't do much in the first few turns, it accounted for a unit of spider riders and the second chariot. Both Salamanders got a hit against the Big'uns, but bad rolling and decent saves from my opponent meant that only one died! They were subsequently sacrificed to stall the Big'un unit.

      - On turn 2 the Iron Orcs, bolstered by the Waaagh, managed a long charge on a unit of Jaguar Warriors; in the magic phase the Frenzy spell was also cast on them, meaning that my 20 saurians were killed in a single round of combat, before getting to fight back! Due to frenzy, the Iron Orcs had to overrun into some spearbacks, and in perfect position for a flank charge by the Temple Guard + General.

      The charge was successful and I managed to break the Iron Orcs in a single combat phase. They got away though after I rolled a "4" for pursuit. They'd rally subsequently and give me more headaches due to an irresistible force Green Hand that took them far from the trap I'd set for them and directly behind my lines.

      In the end, the Temple Guard took the charge from the Iron Orcs, and held long enough for the Caimans to rear charge and annihilate them. This time the survivors were caught in pursuit.

      - The Green Hand antics had left the Trolls outside the General's Ld bubble, but their Ld4 proved enough twice while some fluffed dice meant that a) flank charging spearbacks couldn't force a break test and were killed instead, b) the Raptor Cavalry ready to flank charge the unit on the following turn failed its Stupidity and stumbled forward.

      The trolls would get eventually rear-charged and destroyed in pursuit by the remaining Saurian Warrior unit in the closing steps of the game.

      - The Big'un unit, bolstered by the BSB, managed to eat through 2 salamanders and charge the remaining Temple guard in the flank. With 2 combat phases left to kill 7 temple guard, they didn't manage to accomplish the task an left a single temple guard standing, while the Saurian Ancient general slaughtered the Orc BSB in a challenge.

      - Magic: my opponent went for 3-5 dice casting and got a couple of very destructive magic phases where I only had 2-3 dice for his 5-6. This meant that I had to let frenzy go every single time and that I had units teleported out of the traps I'd set for them and in very threatening positions. This kept me on my toes and made the game very challenging. The orcs suffered a couple of miscasts, the most notable being the one that resulted in 2 lost levels from The Big Gods wizard on the first turn of the game.

      In the end, the game ended as a convincing victory for the Saurian Ancients!

      Thoughts:

      In this game I was outclassed when it came to combat prowess of units in on-on-one fights. So the only way I'd ever be able to gain the upper hand would be to stall all units save one, and try to tackle one unit at a time with flank charges. This kind of worked, and in the end it won me the game after the Iron Orcs were caught.

      Not having a slann was felt, of course, but most of the crucial spells that went through were cast with so high rolls and at such bad time (5 PD/ 2DD magic phase for examle) that I highly doubt he 'd been able to change anything. Skink redirectors were not really missed, especially since the Salamanders can do this for roughly the same cost as a sacrificial skink unit.

      I think i'll keep playing saurian-heavy lists, there is good potential for rush tactics too with the 2 vanguard infantry and the Serpent swarms.

      Hope this helps,

      Smith
    • Army: WotDG (Int./Expert) vs. SA (Int./Expert)
      Duration: 4 turns, 2 hours with lots of interruptions (ran out of time)
      Balanced: Yes/Yes
      Scenario: Battleline, Breathrough

      My Army

      His Army:
      Saurus Ancient; force shield, divine icon, lucky charm, gw, t-rex: 495
      Skink Priest; lvl 2 (wilderness); dispell (staff): 125
      Skink Priest; lvl 2 (wilderness); black cube (cloak): 140
      Crox Ancient BSB; Armor of Destiny: 205

      12 Skink hunters; shields 102
      12 Skink hunters; shields 102
      12 Skink hunters; shields 102
      20 Skink braves; poison, ahw, mus/stfd: 140
      20 Skink braves; poison, ahw, mus/stfd: 140

      Maceosaurus; Sun Engine: 120
      Spike Lizard; hunter spike: 63
      2 Salamander; spout venom: 140
      2 Salamander; spout flames: 140

      I chose the side and we deployed quite cautiously. He kept his army in his 18" leadership bubble, whereas I spread my crushers fairly wide on
      each flank, while lining up the rest against his army in mid. He won deployment by 2 and got first turn.

      Magic was a complete blowout, no one got a single spell through the entire game. Case in point: round 1 his winds of magic AND mine: snake eyes!

      The first few turns involved a lot of moving up and angling/shooting on his part. I had to be patient as he picked off hounds, half a dozen favoured, and two dozen barbarians.

      By turn 3 my crushers were in position and I started my charges. He used the old double unit flee every time, which was very annoying with his cold-blooded ld.9 bubble, but eventually his formations ended up in a knot and things started to fall apart.

      He underestimated my throwing weapons and lost two wounds on his lord from a rain of poisonous axes, so next turn he ran out of my line of sight behind impassable terrain.

      My barbs charged into his Krox block, but weren't able to do enough wounds to break it. Next round in came a maceosaur and the barbs started dropping VERY fast. Pestilence helped a lot vs WS5 Kroxis. Problem was the champ and Jarl died super fast and the unit soon broke, but was not chased down!

      My T5 favoured then charged in, after being angle-blocked for 3 turns, smack bang into the weakened krox, but incredibly managed to fluff their rolls, lost combat, and were ran down. These things happen.

      My Lord smashed into a skink braves flank, and they failed ld.9 cold-blooded steadfast thanks to -1ld, which allowed me to flank charge into his Lord with my own.

      The Lord dual was epic, we were both worried for different reasons. I had 2 breath weapons, but failed to score a single wound, his t-rex only converted 1 wound into 2 but his Lord added another 2. Draw. I had one wound left when I finally killed it off just before the general could strike.

      We called time at the end of round 4. I won 1340 to 1171, and could have gotten a bit more over two more rounds, but then again my Lord only had 1 wound left...

      His Thoughts
      He was feeling very confident when he saw my infantry list and wide deployment. He underestimated the amount of shooting both blocks could take with a Battle Shrine however, how long I was willing to eat the losses while biding my time for better angles, and also just how quickly my Crushers got into position on his flanks. He absolutely did not not expect throwing weapons on my horde.

      The Flame spitting salamanders were brutal against my barbarians, and the krox unit was gold as usual. He deeply regretted not taking a Stegadon when he saw the 2 units of Crushers.

      EDIT: He absolutely loves the new Krox BSB.

      My Thoughts
      Both infantry blocks were solid vs shooting, due to either numbers or toughness/armor. Both failed against the Krox block, but that was bad
      luck and zero magic when I needed it over 2 rounds. The barbarian block is gigantic, and I would take it again in a heartbeat. Favoured of Pestilence are as solid as infantry can get, but never ever underestimate 8 S7 Kroxis. Bad dice.

      2 units of 2 Crushers are very good! They are harder for opponents to juggle than a single block, and that helps offset frenzy a lot.

      Don't mess with the t-rex, even Warp Dragons should be wary.

      Overall
      We were both surprised at just how close the game was. Our rolling certainly wasn't average, but neither of us cast a single spell, and
      both of us flunked key CC rolls. We both had the tools to do a lot of pain but very different style lists. He had the pew-pew, I had the bulk.

      Secondary Objective: Breakthrough = meaningless as usual.

      Pics below (Chimera as Chaos Dragon proxy):
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      <3 Stepping down to focus on the latest addition to the family! Three kids means we now form a complete rank! <3

      The post was edited 1 time, last by There Is No Spoon ().

    • Army: SA (me) vs KoE
      Duration: Roughly 2-3 hours, ended at turn 4
      Balanced: Y/Y
      Scenario: Battleline, no extra objective
      Level: both roughly intermediate
      Massive victory to me.

      My list:

      Characters:
      Cuatl: channel on 3+ and +1 to cast, all signatur spells, dispel scroll, general

      2 x wildernes priests, one had frenzy spell and the other had "wyssan's wildform"

      Carnosaur hero, armour of destiny, lance, shield, BSB

      Core:
      35 saurian warriors, spear, FiER spawning, full command
      4 x 10 skink braves

      Special:
      26 Templeguards, musician, banner
      Maceosaurus with poison ark
      2 x 3 sky riders, pteradon


      Rare:
      Spinosaurus with Predatory Roar
      2 x salamanders

      Opponent (roughly):

      Characters:
      lvl 3 wizard, wildernes, Wafers
      General with +2S sword, reroll to hit in challenge and things I can't remember

      BSB paladin
      Lvl 1 wizard, wildernes, dispel scroll

      Core:
      2 x 10-12 knights of the realm (both bunkered the characters)
      6 errant knights

      Special:
      9 knights of the quest
      3 Pegasus knights, skirmish
      5 Yeomen Outriders

      Rare:
      6-7 Knights of the Grail
      2 trebuchet


      Idea with my list:
      So it's my second time with this list. The general idea is to incorporate as much of the army as I like and be hope to ne able to deal with any situations. With 3 monsters and two big blocsk of infantry I have decent target saturation from artillery. So far it's been going alright.

      He got the blessing and let me have first turn.

      General thoughts before beginning:
      I had a good feeling with the army and felt somewhat bad for my opponent. I hadn't played him before and only communicated a bit via FB (he found me by this forum!).
      When I saw all the knights I got a bit worried though. I realized my monsters would probably get smashed by the trebuches.
      Meanwhile my opponent said he was surprised by the amount of my drops.

      First few turns:
      Very rough for my opponent! Having all signature spells will continue to be my favorite because it give me such a great tool box. Molten Metal was my first spell, he didn't manage to stop it and I removed 2 grail knights straight off the start.
      He moved them up and my birds dropped their rock on the grail knights while moving to the closest trebuche. 2 more grail knights deaded. Other birds dropped rocks on the knights of the quest. No effect.

      Birds hard trouble dealing with the trebuchet in close combat, but stuck around. The 1A on the pteradon is really rough, but that's how it is.

      My skink braves tried their best to redirect. I need to master this skill some more. Since I hadn't done it properly I managed to get a dual charge on my saurian warriors spear block. The unit was 5 wide to deal with such a situation. It took a heavy punch, but poison, lethal strike, plenty of attacks AND AP1 made a number of the knights. My guys lost, but were steadfast.

      At that point his grail knights were gone before they had reached combat (I believe). His questing knights had suffered horrible damage and while both the grail and questing knights were designated for my TGs they were so wittled down by magic, rocks and shooting that they couldn't do anything. My TGs had only lost 2 models from a trebuchet, I had removed both his elite cavalry units and his 2 knights against the saurian warriors would win, but at a hefty cost.

      Once the saurian warriors broke the BSB bunker charged my carnosaur BSB. A challenge was issued and nothing happened to my carnosaur. I won the entire combat by 1. So at Ld8 -1 from CR and -1 from fear they ran away. I REALLY like the carnosaur and wouldn't want to change it. It feel like a good balance between offence and defence. With a 2+ save it's far from invincible since even S4 can pop a lucky wound. My Carnosaur continued and charged the pegasus. Ate two and ran the last one down.

      At this point the last of the questing knights had died off to a final molten metal shot. That left the KoE with only realm knight unit with lvl 3 and general. The other realm knight unit was running away. Both were near by TGs, but those were at 24 models and even though they'd take a punch they'd never break the TGs.

      Besides at this point I had magical dominians.

      General comments:
      • Carnosaur hero remain awesome, I really like it.
      • Spinosaurus unfortunately died off before the roar got off. I REALLY wanted it off with the dual charge since it would've been devastating (trebuchet). Overall it feels very flexible with the roar.
      • Spear saurus did good. With poison they'll be able to take on many opponents. They had 26 attacks with champ while only being 5 wide.
      • Skink braves are fine redirectors. As redirectors I find them to be too cheap since you can almsot get twice the amount of units compared to hunters.
      • Salamanders had a rough time doing much due to high armour and few model count.
      • I LOVE the all signature spell. I consider giving a single price lvl 2 and perhaps add +1 spell item or phatmaster item and act as a lvl 3 wizard. The biggest drawback with the signature disciplines is the lack of heavy hitting spells, although molten metal is quite heavy hitting to KoE ;)
      • TGs didn't do much.
      • Even though I pay 120pts to gain +2 to channel, they're so so effective with the telepathic link. One thing - the special rule description mention that I can cast spells with the type "damage". Since there are no single spell with only the word "damage" I am right to assume that all spells with "damage" can be cast, right? So essentially the only thing I cannot cast via the skinks are augments/hexes (as long as damage is not mentioned), unless I have the proper discipline. I think the wording could be a tiny bit better here.
        • Anyway 24" range is massive. I got off Molten Metal in turn 1 due to this (moved priest up -> 24" + 24" -> lol).
      My army didn't feel overpowered. My opponent should've probably focus fired my carnosaur with the trebuchs since direct hits deal massive pain and can easily outright kill it. He also didn't really have any offensive magic. He had 3 augments/hexes and 1 weak damage spell (the 5D6 S1 one) so he was very limited. I could often anticipate which spells he would be interested in and so it was easy to deal with. The result was that he only had 1 really good magic phase while mine were really horrifying for him, lol.

      Overall a fun game. I won massively because I managed to clear my flank where his heavy elite cavalry were early in the game.
    • This is also posted on the EoS playtesting page.

      This is coming a bit late but played a game on 11/25. 2400 EoS vs SA (lizzies)

      My List


      Great Tactician : Talisman of Supreme Shielding; Dragonscale Helm; Shield ; Lance ; Pistol; Great Griffon 335


      Captain: Armour of the Ages; Lucky Charm; Halberd; Battle Standard Bearer 129
      Inquisitor: Ghost Helmet; Dusk Stone; Plate Armour; Great Weapon ; Witch Hunter; Horse (Swift Reform) 145
      Wizard Apprentice: Dispel Scroll; Gemstone Amulet; Level 2 Wizard; Path of Beasts 140
      Wizard Apprentice: Hero's Wand of Stability; Path of Fire; Level 2 Wizard 100


      12 Light Infantry Battalion : Marksman (Long-barreled Handgun); musician 114
      12 Light Infantry Battalion : Marksman (Long-barreled Handgun); musician 114
      5 Empire Knights: musician 100
      5 Empire Knights: musician 100
      Militia Corps: 5× Skirmishers 45
      Militia Corps: 5× Skirmishers 45
      Militia Corps: Pistol; 6× Skirmishers; Musician; Standard Bearer 75


      7 Imperial Rangers 70
      9 Imperial Reiter Calvary: Heavy Armour; Braces of Pistols; Outrider; Musician 191
      20 Imperial Guard: Banner of Courage; Hand Weapon and Shield ; Count's Champion; Musician; Standard Bearer 235
      Icon Of Prosaic Days (20 Imperial Guard): Standard of Alternate Realities; Hand Weapon and Shield ; Count's Champion; Musician; Standard Bearer 255
      Arcane Alter 100


      Black Powdered War Machine 100


      2,400 points



      His List


      Anurid High Priest: Banner Of Discipline ; Arcane Plaque (Lord); Path of Nature; Funnel the winds; Cognitive Reassurance; Battle Standard Bearer 520


      Skink Ritual Priest : Dispel Scroll; Path of Wilderness 95
      Saurian Veteran: Armour of Destiny; Lance; Shield; Tyrannosaurus 300


      27 Skink Braves: Champion; Musician; Standard Bearer 165
      3 Kroxisaurus 135
      27 Skink Braves: Champion; Musician; Standard Bearer 165
      3 Kroxisaurus 135
      10 Skink Hunters 80
      10 Skink Hunters 80


      Maceosaurus: Sun Engine 130
      Maceosaurus: Altar of the Snake Gods 120
      5 Chameleons 60
      5 Chameleons 60


      Triceratops: Ancient 215
      1 Salamander 70
      1 Salamander 70


      2,400 points


      So this was a classical deployment game. We had five pieces of terrain. The terrain in this game mostly was used by both of us to protect warmachines (my cannon) and skirmishers (like half his army).


      Deployment: I started deployment
      throwing down my knight chaff on either side of the board. Then we set
      up his entire force. This is the second time in which this has happened
      to me. I felt that I had a decent deployment
      because I was able to deploy to match him. There were somethings I
      couldn't avoid (his tyrannosaur hero). I felt that I really could have
      used first turn however, but I'm not so sure about getting first turn
      and poor deployment. His delpoyment was poor either; he set up exactly as he wanted and it worked for him. Also helped that he had some scouts. I will need more games to test this. I did get my scouts in his flank which was cool. Go rangers.


      Turn 1: He moved up. Tried to shoot some of my militia chaff. Not to much.
      My turn 1. I gave orders to shooting units and my magic was shut down. Cannon missed its mark.


      Turn 2. His hero charged in to a block of the IG with my beast wizard and my BSB. I soaked up a challenge with the champ. His magic was used to rez some skinks. He also charged my cannon with the chameleons. It was in ruins so hard to pick off. The cannon survived on 1 wound and stuck cause general.
      My turn 2. Counter charged with some Militia into chameleons;
      Militia won! I also counter charged knights into the flank of his
      Tyrannosaur Hero, but BsB was just eaten by the tyrannosaur. Crossbows
      doing some serious pounding to the skink units. Rieters tried to put
      wounds on the Triceratops. Griffon General also charged some chameleons and overran into a salamander (got the 10" I needed).


      Turn 3. He charged one of his skink blocks into my IGs (the one not engaged with his hero; fear banner one). Skinks lost combat while being buffed! Poison+ WS monsters near by. That IG unit
      overran into one of his Maceosaurus (WS one I believe). Triceratops
      also came into the flank of the knights in the flank of his hero;
      knights would be destroyed but the IG stick around.
      My T3. Griffon Lord goes into another salamander. Inquisitor charges the maceosaurus with IG in the rear. Cannon misfired and lost its one remaining wound. Griffon Lord overruns into the block of skinks and kroxs that haven't been in combat. Triceratops and THero finally destroy the one IG unit they fought for many rounds. Also lost the Arcane Alter as I charged into the flank of the THero for some impact hits and that was a mistake. Anuird is now in the unit of skinks with the griffon lord in the flank. Maceosaurs with the Inquisitor in the front and 20 IG in the back stuck on a four!


      Turn 4: Tricertops uses terror to make one crossbow unit flee. Those crossbows also had my fire wizard in there. Then it redirects into the IG's flank (the one fighting the Maceosuarus. Inquisitor killed by the Thundercrush of Maceo and IG stomped to death. General kills the units skink champ.
      My turn 4 (last turn): Remaining crossbow men kill a maceo saurus. The
      champ snipes it with his gun. So awesome. The stars aligned for that to
      happen though. I chaff his tricertops and THero with my militia. Rieters
      and rangers and knights are picking off his skink skirmishers and the skink unit that fled earlier in came. Get half points for those. I also kill his lvl 1 with my general as he was worried that he wouldn't do any wounds do the Griffon General and my flee because loss of the Anurids LD and reroll.


      Lost the game. I got 758 points. I can't remember if I got half points on the other skink unit engaged with he general
      at the end of the game. It was pretty diminished by crossbow fire. My
      opponent got 1523 not including the points for banners he would have
      captured. I wish we could have played it out. I would have liked to have
      seen if my general
      could have got the Anurid and rest of the skinks. I might have been
      able to get the rest of his army save the T hero and Tricertops and a
      Maceo.


      Thoughts about EoS after this game:
      -I need to remember the detachments rule! Twice that game I would of had a stand and shoot from the crossbows.
      -Militia are neat. Effective for their points. I could see them going down five points (as a unit) but they don't need too.
      -Small IG blocks are tough. With some S4 attacks and a 3+ armour save
      they can take some punishment and then dish it out. I just need more
      effective hammers in an army to save those blocks when they can't kill
      anything.
      -Still like that Griffon lord. Although Post this game I realized he can only get a 2+ AS on his griffon which makes me sad. Large Targets don't add mounts protection.
      - Inquisitors should have as little gear as possible. I would have
      rather have had two Inquisitors just chilling in blocks, then a decked
      out one trying to do anything extraordinary.
      -Reiters should be five man units. The big block is fun but doesn't
      serve a purpose. I may try it again but if just feels like a big foot
      print to deal with.


      Thoughts on Saurian Ancients:
      Just from this game, they feel pretty balanced. The monsters are fun.
      I'm glad to see the THero be a thing. Not of their shooting felt OP or
      ineffecitve. The skink blocks were cool too. Definitely a cheap way to
      get a couple hordes on the field that can still do some pain if they
      want (S7 on the kroxs). Anurid is a magic powerhouse which is awesome.
      You pay a lot of points for him and he is really good. Skirmishers feel really powerful however.


      The only thing that bothered me was his skink priest
      becasue all it did was hold onto a scroll (it had 1 beast spell but why
      cast it when your Anuird is doing similar things with way less dice). I
      guess I don't like how its just a
      scroll caddy (which many armies take but most armies don't have a spell
      caster quite like the Anurid). My only suggestion for SA would be to
      limit the amount magic allotment points on skink priest
      if an Anurid is in the army. Make the limit 25 points when an anurid is
      present. There is also another magic item that SA have that a skink
      hero can take: The Black Cube.
      The Cube, plus a scroll and your level four is complete magic dominance
      all game. That just my two cents otherwise great job on SA.
      Evershade Gaming on YouTube youtube.com/channel/UCKjjkWnXanizMuTh5obkxpA

      theforgottenturtle.com An Awesome Painting Blog
    • I played 2 games today: one vs. SE, one vs. UD.

      I played the same list vs. both (with one minor change)

      Cuatl Lord: Wellspring of Power (dispel), Shielded Soul, Black Cube
      Skink Captain: Serpent Bow, light armor, shield, pteradon, dragonscale helm
      Veteran: Carnosaur, AoD, shield, lance
      30 Warriors: serpent totem, spears, full command, banner of speed
      2x12 skink hunters (blowpipes)
      10 skink braves (short bows)
      20 TG: full command, weapon master
      5 raptor riders
      5 raptor riders
      Tyroscutus: Altar of the Snake God
      2 Spearbacks
      2x salamanders (they each ran solo). Vs. SE I took spout venom, Vs. UD I took spout flames

      Game 1 vs. SE:

      Treefather Ancient: lvl 4 life
      lvl 1 shadow mage on eagle
      Deathlord the immortal: Prince with 1+ AS (found a workaround with mithril mail and the Sword of the Dance), 4+ ward, and the shapeshifter kindred). Sweet Jeebus it was a nightmare.
      Chieftain BSB with the Sacred Spear
      3x5 heath riders
      3x7 wild huntsmen
      30+ forest guard with both armor upgrades
      10 pathfinders

      I crushed my opponent in this game. We played with diagonal deployment. My warriors and TG formed the center of my formation, and I kept the Tyro nearby for a massive amount of poison attacks. The raptor darts and the captain were on the flank, one group of hunters was preventing scouting, and the others were getting in range to shoot things.

      The Cuatl was set up to have a killer dispel phase, figuring that I would usually have enough of an advantage on my magic phase that I don't need to pay for more. I essentially closed the dice gap by two every turn (removing one of his through the cube, nearly guaranteed channel for me). I dropped Devouring Darkness on the Ancient, dealing 5 wounds, and poison blowpipes took him out turn 1. I had magic dominance after that

      The CarnoVet did precisely 0 wounds today, but he was a big enough threat that he tied up a lot of the movement phase. I was able to dart him around alot with shadow. He died due to Deathlord the Immortal.

      The captain worked great in this game. He got a flank shot on the huntsmen and took out 5 of them in one shot. Then the pathfinders zeroed in on him and deleted him. Still, I think it was worth it.

      The Saurian spear warriors are WAY better than elf spears. I spent roughly 12pts a model, and he spent 10 pts a model, and I crushed him. Even with distracting due to the Chieftains spear I was taking out 7 or 8 at a time while only losing 3 or 4.

      Temple Guard are still great. I loved the weapon master upgrade. Bodyguard is a huge help.

      The raptor darts were next to useless. The first one was taken out due to a long charge by wild huntsmen. The second group took out a single group of heath riders and cleaned up the huntsmen that killed their friends (but only after the Captain wiped out 5 of them). They are too slow to work as a dart. You need a bus of them for ablative wounds. You can use raptor darts to clear chaff, but I can do that better (and cheaper) with spearbacks. They are strong in the right scenario, but minimum size darts didn't work great. I'll try again and see if I can find weaker units to tangle with. Not sure they will get their points back, though.

      The spearbacks were great. They took out a good chunk of the enemy. I was pretty happy with them.

      The salamanders were not great. They took out a total of 4 spearmen. Wooo.... They kept drifting away from everything, and the low strength didn't help much when they did hit.

      As for the elves: losing the general so early sucked, but it wasn't crippling. The army functioned very well even when the general and mage was gone. My magic dominance let me really neuter the huntsmen.

      The huntsmen are still cruise missiles. They completely wreck anything they get the charge on. When they get charged by a whole bunch of spear wielding saurians, though, they evaporate.

      The spear elves did horribly against my saurians. My opponent really needed to look for any other target. They cannot stand up to saurus.

      Also, while he was super killy, Deathlord wound up spending 3 combats stuck with my 10 skink braves. New parry plus poor rolling let them stick around forever. It was hilarious.

      My second game was vs. UD. I had the same list as before, except I switched out the salamander firing type.

      To the best of my knowledge, my opponent brought this list (more or less.

      Level 4 mage with path of the sands
      BSB
      28ish archers
      7 chariots and an architect on a chariot
      8 Ushabti with halberds
      2 caskets
      2x5 horse archers
      2x2 carrion
      2 scorpions
      6 sand stalkers

      We deployed diagonally again. I deployed on the line, while he castled back in the corner.

      The first magic phase was 11-7 (after my dice shenanigans). I dispelled everything, but just barely failed to dispel the big bubbled ancient glory. It hit EVERYTHING, and did not go away. This one failure snowballed into my utter defeat.

      The salamanders chased around some horses but didn't kill anything.

      The skinks managed to do 2 wounds to the casket, but never got a chance for 3. Both caskets survived until the end.

      My ward save on my BSB saved him from any damage from the caskets, but they did a good job of deleting my spearbacks and salamanders.

      The sand stalkers popped up right behind my main blocks. They deleted my Tyro, they took out a good chunk of my saurus, and my Captain did not manage to penetrate their ranks even once. I killed 1 of them. That's it. They took out a ton of my stuff.

      Ushabti with ancient glory are nightmares made flesh. They ripped through everything they touched. I needed to put a lot more ranged fire into them, or I need to get flanks. Taking them head on is a bad idea.

      The chariots danced around a lot. I missed my charge into them with my spear saurus by 1. They charged me the next turn and took me out handily. I think this would have gone the other way around if I made that charge.

      Caskets are weird. The fact that the UD player doesn't have to do anything is just strange. They just target a guy, it takes the leadership test (which is stupid hard to pass), and then it takes d3+1 wounds. At least with cannons you have to aim them. They negate any advantages brought by monsters, but are pathetic against single wound units like infantry or non-monstrous cav. Just a very strange unit.



      Lessons learned:

      Shadow is only ok for SA. Devouring Darkness took out the Treefather, but that was it. I cast it once during the UD game, but it was dispelled. Otherwise, I didn't really have much of an opportunity to use it. The movement spell was neat, but I really didn't have enough characters to make use of it. Maybe if I had the Cuatl on his own it would be good, but I really would have been better off with light or nature.

      The disciplines and the black cube were fun. I had a really strong dispel phase. That said, I really wish I brought a scroll. Being able to stop that ancient glory would have been game changing. I like where the Cuatl is. Lots of neat options (though you definitely pay for them)

      The CarnoVet is really good, but he looks so scary that people give him a wide berth. He caused a bunch of movement to avoid him, but was never able to attack anything. I might have been better off with some regular cowboys (except that the CarnoVet looks so cool!)

      The Serpent Bow Captain is situationally good. Despite the fact that it can do multiple wounds, you really don't want to hit anything with more than 1. Failing (constantly) to penetrate ranks is just the worst feeling you can have with this guy. Then again, when you take out 5 of 7 huntsmen with a single shot, you feel pretty good about your choices.

      Spear saurus with FiER and poison Tyro backup is super fun. 31 swings is a lot of poison opportunity.

      The skinks were fine. They did their job. I think they are in a weird place right now. If you are going to play the skink cloud, you don't really care that they are more expensive. If you are going to play anything else (like my spear saurus), then the 90 pt cost just leaves a bad taste in your mouth. I really like hunters, and they are always great, but if you aren't building your list specifically around having tons and tons of skinks, you find yourself wanting to take fewer of them than before. Which is not a bad thing! I bought the materials to make a bunch of swarms for next time, just to try out different forms of chaff. I can't see myself bringing small units of saurus (they are too slow for that), but swarms and braves seem useful. That said, next list I build is doing the AHW poison skinks with the high priest giving hatred. Fear my almost witch elves!

      Raptor darts do not seem like a good use of points. 160 points, but only 5 wounds. Too slow to get any hits, so they need to rely on ablative wounds. They should be good against chaff and archers, but anything with even a modicum of killing power is going to wreck them.

      Spearbacks are good.

      Salamanders didn't really manage to do much.

      Poison Tyro is really fun. I think I like it better than the solar engine version.

      Mithril mail and the sword of the dance give a 1+ save, since mithril mail only prevents gaining additional armor from innate defense and shields.

      1+/4++ multiwound(2) shapeshifter kindred prince is just a super killy death machine. Just be sure not to send it into something useless (hero braves ftw!)

      Wild huntsmen seem like they are just as good as they were in 8th. They are cruise missiles. If they charge something, that something is going to have a bad day.

      NEVER LET A MAX LEVEL BUBBLED ANCIENT GLORY GO OFF!

      Sand stalkers shoot way too much.

      Sand Scorpions are way tougher than they look.

      DO NOT GET IN THE WAY OF USHABTI UNTIL THEY HAVE BEEN CUT DOWN SOME. So much damage otherwise.

      Casket is just weird. I honestly don't know where it sits on the power curve. If you bring a monster mash list, you die. If you take an infantry list, you don't care about them at all.
    • Played
      1st game of 10.0, ~20th game of 9th Age
      Opponent was Chaos, mid-experienced

      My list:

      Light Frog
      Priest w/ Scroll
      Chief BSB Steg w/ bow
      Chief Steg w/ bow

      2x 27/3 Skink/Krox
      10 Krox, halberds
      Engine of the Gods

      Opponent:
      Chaos Lord, Wrath, Jugger, Ogre Blade, 1+/4++
      BSB horse 1+/5++, Wrath
      Sorcerer horse, Fire, Scroll
      6 Marauder Cav, Lust
      12 Knights, Wrath, Dispel Banner
      5 Juggers
      2 Chariots, Wrath
      2x 12 Fallen, Wrath


      Game summary:
      I smashed the flank with all the Chaos Core on it, then reformed to face the centre. Stegadons danced about and delayed Juggers w/ Lord before quad-charging the unit. All Crushers died, all Stegs died. Lord lived fighting remnants of Skrox unit. In the centre big Krox killed 600pts of Chaos Core then failed a 4" charge vs Knight bus, got charged, lost half the unit, deleted Knights and BSB. Slann went down the hole in final turn, making the game a draw.

      Observations:
      Chaos Core is now strong. Any army with M6 Skirmishers to fill Core Tax is strong. The fact that they outmanouvre and outshred most enemy core is just gravy.
      Combat characters are still too strong. Has been this way for ages (even in 6th edition) and it's just a problem. At one stage had 3 Stegadons and 2 Kroxigors attacking lone Chaos Lord, didn't make a wound. I know it's a game of fantasy battles n shit, but... anyway, not getting fixed any time soon.

      Lizardmen:
      Light is the bomb. Just awesome now with halberd Kroxis. My favourite unit. I have tried Heavens and Metal as well but they're too one-dimensional. Light is good all the time. Fire is not bad either, but for a 500pt wizard I want him to win the game.
      BS5 Skink Chief bolties on discounted Steggies is great. My other favourite unit.
      The Frog feels right now. Expensive, but he cups the balls just the way you like.
      Skrox units, they still don't make me happy. They try hard but they just get shredded by so many things. Having poison on my Skinks would have helped a bit. Maybe go back to my 40/5 configuration.
      Engine of the Gods is great, but feels weird telling my opponent I am using Metalshifting power before he has a chance to move (if opponent goes first, you declare your Engine ability in his turn).
      Mundane equipment prices on Saurus characters (particularly armour) - c'mon guys, seriously. It's the same price or cheaper to buy magical heavy armour with a ward save than it is to buy light armour.

      Next time will try out the Terradons and.....maybe.....Saurus......maybe......
    • Size of Game 2500Length of Game (time). 3h/6turns
      Player Experience Level: TournamentOpponent Experience Level: Tournament
      # of Game With Current Draft: 1# of Game with Current Draft: 1
      If you played any modifications from Current Draft (please list): nIf opponent played any modifications from Current Draft (please list):n
      If you felt game was 'generally balanced' (y/n): yIf opponent felt game was 'generally balanced' (y/n): y

      So, had a game as Eos vs SA yesterday.


      My list:
      Prelate on altar, Locket of Sunna, Hardened Shield
      Great Tactitian
      lvl 2 heavens, scroll
      lvl 2 heavens
      Captain, Bsb
      2x48 Spear Infantry, FC
      15 Militia (character bunker)
      40 Imperaial Guard ( one mage here)
      Arcane Engine (Supernatural Reflexes)
      3 x Mortar
      2x Cannons
      Steel Tank


      His list:
      Cuatl with extra spell, Life
      Skink high priest, light, scroll
      Bsb, Armour of Destiny
      35 Saurus, spear, Triceratops totem (+1 AS, can not purse/overrun), FC
      4x12 Hunters, Javelins
      35 Temple Guardians, Banner of Speed, FC
      2x2 Spikebacks
      2x Maceosaurus w snake altar (poision)


      My plan: Stand in a corner and shoot as many things as I can. When he arrives, try to hold him off. I used the (probably) cheaty thing of putting the "+1 to hit with ranged"-order on my cannons.
      His plan: Put Cuatl in TG, Skink and Bsb in saurus and PUSH dat corner. With Posion on Everything.


      Regular Deploy, no scenario.


      He chose side, and I deployed Everything at once, putting my mortars off to one side and the rest in a corner behind an impass (If he wanted to dedicate Points to get 60 pts of mortar, fine).


      Turn 1: My Magic did nothing but my shooting picked of one Maceosaurus and put 3 wounds on the other. His turn, he pushes with Everything and whiffs magic.


      Turn 2: I put my steel tank in some skinks and shuffle the rest around a bit. Magic sees a comet getting scrolled and my cannons kill a spikeback and the last maceosaurus. I break the skinks and are in front of the spear saurus, with the templeguards unable to charge. He charges my steel tank and puts speed of light on his saurus. At this Point we realize that Spears have lethal strike against chariots as well. 2 wounds the first round on the tank.


      Turn 3:I charge some skinks, which flee except one that holds for the prelate. I position one of my Spear units in charge position above the impass I´m hiding behind at an angle his TG can´t charge them, hoping to threaten him with a flank charge. Magic sees a comet getting placed and some buffs from the prelate. In combat, he puts 4 wounds on the tank. The prelate kills his skinks.His turn, he shuffles his TG forward and diverts my Spears above the impass with his spikebacks. Shooting puts 3 wounds on my prealte. 3 wounds on the tank in CC, 1 left. His skinks kills a mortar.



      Turn 4: I see that his divert with the razordons aint quite good enough, so my spear guys charges the side of his TG, where his Cuatl is standing. I charge chaff with my Spears, and they flee. I push my IG forward so that if he Combat reforms the TG-combat, I get a flank and shove my chariots in buffing position, trying to get enough buffs to kill the Cuatl. Get reroll to wound in magic phase. Shot some spike bakcs with my cannons. Steel tank dies (damn, Spears are good!) and he positions his Spears to charge my Spears. Fair, right? My Spears put 3 wound on the cuatl. In his turn, he charges my Spears and rallys some chaff. He puts down regrowth and light´s protection. the comet coming down, but not really doping much difference. It kills a razordon that had flank charged my Spears engaging the TG. In cc,he kills a bunch of Spears, I kill a few saurus and I hold. My other Spears finish of the cuatl, but the TG holds.


      Turn 5: More grinding and I charge my Arcane Engine into the saurus, hoping for good impac hits (gets 2). My Imperial guard is still threatening his TG, but not charging their front yet. Some buffs go down, all combats hold, he reforms up his TG to finish of the spears. In his turn he finishes off the Spears and reforms back to face the IG. Rest of the combat holds, grinding


      Turn 6: My IG turns their back against the TG and go Three wide (so that they can´t get to the mage, and I keep stubborn). Some buffs in magic. Shooting doesnt do much. after the cc my Spears against his saurus are down to 14 of my guys vs 5 of his + characters. In his turn he charges the IG in the back. In cc he finishes of the Spears, which break. Since he has the totem, he can´t follow. He is at this Point down to 3 Saurus and the charcters.


      Result: About a draw, with ca 1100 pts to both.


      Thoughts on EoS:
      * I love the Power lelvel of Eos, It seems very reasonable. Nothing is too good on its own, but can have a lot of synergy, without feeling to powerful. I Think this book is at a very good Place Power-wise. You are Always struggeling, but alwyas have something to do about it, which I like.
      * The great tactician is a marvelous general, improving the infantry game a good deal which makes core ok. I Think he is only supposed to order parent or support unit, but it was not clear. otherwise he is near an auto-include when you´re playing cannons or volley guns.
      * Prelate on altar is very strong and versitile. Do not feel broken, but is very good. For me, nearly auto-include.
      * Cannons seems ok, even with the nerf. Hitting on 4+ is mostly ok, especially when you have the attribute from heavens to make it reliable.
      * Mortars are ok, they have some matches were they do nothing, but some were they rock (elves, VS). Fair for 60 pts.
      * Spears are now a strong chioice. Halberds are no longer the only choice, which I like. Ap1 is huge!
      * IG didnt do much, and they still die very easily. I like where they are, they feel elite enough for Empire.
      * Steel tank still solid, aswell as the arcane enginge. Maybe thunderbolt is a too good bound spell? Hitting with GW in initiative is great for IG(even though I forgot it)



      Thoughts on SA:
      *Saurus with Spears are now a very strong choice for fighting core. They can now be a threat to anything, which is nice. With hatred and light-buffs, they are very good.
      *Skinks are still good, but a lot easier to handle just 4 units instead of 8.
      *Maceosaurus didnt contribute with much due to dying so easily, but they seems good, especially as their poision now stacks (giving both units poision on 5+). I´m not sure it should stack, seems too strong.
      *TG did what they usually doo, they are good Power-wise.
      *Spikebacks seem a little too good for their points. They were ok when they costed the same and had volleygun rules (i.e. getting an extra -1 to hit 1/3 of the time). Now a small price increase seems warranted (+5 ppm?)
      Square bases, happy faces!

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      The post was edited 2 times, last by Maelstorm ().

    • Two battle reports so Ill try to keep them brief. Played against the same army for both, first I got as close to my old 8th list as I could to see how things compared, 2nd I really tried out the new toys.

      His list:
      Beastlord – Duskstone+Greathorn combo (2+AS), Stalker
      Shaman Lord – Seed of Dark Forest, Shielding Scroll, Lv 3 Beasts
      Mystic – Scroll, Lv 1 Shadow
      Wildhorn BSB – Armor of Fortune (3+ 5++), Totems
      Centuar – Trueborn Beast, Mithril Mail, Booze, Totems

      5 Hounds
      2x19 Wildhorns – Wolverine, ahw, FC (lv 1 in 1st) (BSB in 2nd)
      2x14 Wildhorns – ahw, throwing, music

      38 Long horns – GW, Foulhide, FC (General and lv 3 here)
      11 Centuars – Direwolf, Impalers, FC (Chief went here)
      2x5 Centuars – Ambush, Throwing Weapons
      2xHedgefiend

      The only things from his army that started on the board were the two large special units and the 5 hounds, everything else ambushed.
      My 1st list
      Cuatl – Shielded, Veteran, Wellspring, Egg of Quetzal (Light magic)
      Veteran BSB – Raptor, GW, Armor of destiny
      Veteran – Raptor, GW, lt, Duskstone, Dragonhelm
      Veteran – Raptor, GW, Armor of fortune, Lucky Charm
      Skink Priest – Scroll, Lv 1 beasts

      35 Warriors – FC, Spears
      (used to be 2 units of 26, price increases squeezed one out)
      4x12 Skirmishers – jav/shield (used to be 3)
      2x2 Swarms

      8 Chameleons
      6 Raptors (all cowboys go here in lance formation)
      2xSalamander

      The first game went honestly terribly, my old list was designed around the cowboy lance, letting it hit as hard as possible, but most of his army showed up behind me turn 2, so it didn’t really have a target. It also wasn’t really necessary with his lack of shooting, I could have broken up all the characters but I wanted to play it like I had in 8th.
      I was able to chaff up his two starting blocks and get a ‘lance’ charge into the Centuars, which annihilated them so that’s nice. I found it really hard to shut down his magic phase even with a slann, he basically just cast frenzy, +1S +1T, and totems the whole game, and I couldn’t stop all 4 totems hed throw.
      Seed of the dark forest is really damn cool, he dropped it at the midpoint in front of his longhorns, popped hedgefiends out of it, and ran into it for the boost to totems and his lv 3, I really didn’t want to fight him in there, in fact I did my level best to ignore/chaff that unit the whole game. Slann died turn 4 after I couldn’t dance around all the wildhorn units, so that definitely didn’t help matters.

      Thoughts on our units:
      Warriors – finally worth their 11 points with the new Predator and spears, were able to fight off quite a few Wildhorns (which at 7 ppm they had better be worse).
      Skinks – as good as ever, 12 man units is fairly annoying though since the extra 8 guys didn’t do anything but take points I could have used.
      Swarms, love the idea of scouting, but still my favorite chaff in the book (thought they were very underused in 8th)

      Raptors – didnt do much this game, honestly wish they were better (the 5 point increase for lances from 8th definitely wasn’t worth it imo)
      Salamanders – The only thing I had for his long horns, probably ate 15 of them over the course of the game, forever love these guys.
      Slann – surprisingly didn’t miss spell swapping that much, mainly because Light is what I would have swapped to against this army, against a cav-heavy army I definitely would have missed it.
      Cowboys – just as effective as they were, only they are 50-60 points more each now, which is a bit much on the increase. Between that and the cost increase on the raptors, my lance is officially dead (655 point unit in 8th, 800 point unit now), all 800 points + magic support only killed 500 points of stuff (admittedly a bad matchup in the army).


      My 2nd list
      Warlord – Glittering, Crystal Ball, Sword of Bashing, shield
      High Preist – 1000 incantations, jade staff, Palaquin + Plaque, Lv 3 Light
      Veteran BSB – halberd, Armor of destiny
      Veteran – Raptor, GW, lt, Duskstone, Dragonhelm
      Skink CaptainRamphodon, 1+AS, Spear of Stampede
      Skink Priest – Scroll, Lv 1 beasts

      25 Warriors – FC, Spears, Serpent (Priest and BSB here)
      2x12 Skirmishers – jav/shield
      2x2 Swarms

      9 Chameleons
      23 TG – Full command, Razors (General here)
      Tyroscutus – Snake God
      2xSalamander

      This game I immediately charged forward to get away from board edges, it went much better. Turn 3 I managed to get hatred, WS10 I10, Poison on a 4+ Saurus into his Longhorns, which was just absolutely hilarious (20 dead longhorns). Poison combos super well with hatred, and Im loving this combo of units.
      Cowboy was definitely not worth his points, didn’t do much of anything other than hold up a small Wildhorn unit and chew through it over 3 turns.
      Captain was actually pretty great, I marked the big Centuar unit and he actually tore through most of it himself (yay lethal strike!) Hes probably going to make it into all of my lists with either the spear or the egg.
      The most disappointing thing for me was how little I missed the Cuatl. With the level 1 assisted casting I could cast at level 4, and I had the guaranteed spells out of light, plus beasts sig and 2 good bounds. I never had too many dice, and I didn’t really see what the slann would have brought for an extra 150 points of magic investment, especially since he doesn’t give my unit hatred. How it stands now the most iconic character might get shelved for a while.

      The rest of the units did exactly what I expected, 110 point buff wagon was worth it, salamanders and skinks took on the ambushing units to good effect, TG got chaffed up by Hedgefiends but were able to help clean up the Longhorns. By the time his ambushers had gotten through my ranged units the rest of his army was nearly gone, though that was mainly because of the one excellent magic phase I had.

      Overall I think we’re in a pretty good place right now, I know data says were a little OP but I definitely don’t see it (maybe it’s the lack of cloud) Lots of synergy in the army which has always been a calling card of the lizards.
      Saurian Ancients analyses and tactics here
    • Another test game of 10.1
      Opponent: intermediate Chaos player, 2.5k

      My list:
      Oldblood, 1+/4++, SoM
      Oldblood, 1+/5++, Kingslayer
      Skink High Priest, lvl3, 4 spells, Light
      Skink Priest, lvl2, scroll, Beasts
      Skink BSB flaming banner

      2x 35 Saurus FC
      18 Skinks adhw poison mus
      10 Krox, T5, halberds
      2x 3 Terradons

      My list was built largely on the premise of using units that wouldn't be invalidated/gimped in the next update. Hence no Frog or Skirmishers or spear saurus. Also left my all-time favourites, Skink Chiefs, at home in favour of trying the double Oldblood approach.

      Arrived for game to discover opponent had brought the filth: 2 hellcannons, 4 chariots, warrior block, dagger-lvl4 Change, war shrine, dragon ogres, 2x5 whippy cav. Anyone who is complaining about chaos getting over nerfed has simply not compared them to other books.
      After my opponent explained all his rules I really wondered how I was supposed to win. From what I could see I was outshot and outfought and had zero board presence versus the multithreat chaos army.

      Anyway, I pushed up the centre with my three blocks - had both oldbloods in one saurus unit so I could actually win combats. Got up a bubble Timewarp which scared my opponent into backing off a little, I decided to go for it anyway - committed oldblood block and Krox into a hellcannon with overrun paths into rest of his army. Of course hellcannon survives on one wound and I get countercharged. With some help from speed of light I manage to prevail and kill the Bsb, warriors hellcannon and two Chariots, which panics the drogres off the board. Other saurus were holding off the reinforcements and opponent called it a game.

      Conclusions:
      - saurus are fine. Boring but fine. I don't like investing 400pts in str4 infantry but that's what the RT seems to want from me.
      - magic armours still auto pick on oldbloods. They grind pretty ok, but they are expensive and my opponent didn't have much serious stuff to worry them.
      - I would never ever pay th points to upgrade to level 4 skink high priest; for 60pts I get a level 1 which essentially opens up another arcane slot as well as give +1 to cast. No brainer choice.wouldn't bother with lvl2 upgrade next time either as Beast priest never got to even touch a power dice, Light better in most situations.
      - Krox go hard. Think 10 is the optimal size for me, they take the punishment and keep going. Most of the stuff that hurts them they will often be steadfast against so can grind for longer.
      - Terradons were fine. Think 2x 5 will be something I explore in the future as auto-go-first has some big potential implications.
      - didn't like my army being so small but not knowing what's happening with skinks kinda forced my hand.
      - missed my Frog.
    • 2500pts vs Orcs & Goblins
      Battleline
      Opponent: expert


      My list: (aka "I believe I can fly")

      Oldlood on T-Rex, Shard, Biting Blade
      Slann, Ethereal, Flying Carpet, Scroll, Dragonbane Gem, (Shadow)
      Caiman BSB, Mixomoitlllll Totem Thing, Armour of 6++

      3x 25 Skink Braves, adhw, poison, mus
      2x 2 Swarms, scout
      8 Krox, scales, std, mus, War Banner
      2x 3 Terradons
      Engine of the Gods


      His list:

      Level 3 Orc
      Black Orc Warboss, big magic weapon
      Black Orc BSB, Mork's Totem thing
      Orc Shaman, Wild Lore
      Goblin Shaman
      Goblin Hero, wolf

      25 Savage Orc Big'Uns
      24 Black Orcs
      20 Night Goblins, 2x Fanatic
      5 Wolf Riders
      2x Goblin Chariot
      2x Orc Chariot
      2x Mangler Squig
      2x Rock Lobba
      1x Doom Diver
      12 Orc Crossbowmen



      Fairly classic matchup here. We both had combat elements which would wreck or get wrecked depending on support elements and magic buffs. Therefore keeping the Scroll intact for as long as possible was crucial (thank you to my dear Swedish butcher, Mr Kaj Gyllinger, for this valuable lesson).
      I deployed everything to go first.
      The game was very standoffish in the centre, with the usual chaff war going on on the flanks. The Lizardmen eventually managed to roll up the eastern flank, but a lucky rock struck the Carnosaur in the head and rendered it useless. A single magic missile ended its game. Without the 500pt combat general the Lizardmen fled charges for the rest of the game - I played my Slann poorly (outside of a unit) and got him magic missiled to death as well in turn 6.

      Final result was 450pts (13-7) in favour of the Orcs.

      Conclusions:

      Didn't really learn anything new this game:
      War machines are still troublesome for monsters.
      Carnosaurs are very high risk/high reward and though I love the concept & stats I doubt I will play one for a while. Cost simply too high - could get 8 Hard Krox instead which take more than twice the killing.
      Hard Krox with the Mixoitylkollll Totem put the fear of god into the enemy. I ran some maths after the game and realised I should have just taken the charge from either Orc unit - unless he rolls insane and kills 5 Krox (super hard to do) I more or less just win. I was a bit gunshy of the Big BattleAxe and of a double-charge from both units.
      Shadow Slann looks fun on paper but too hard to get good spots against decent players. Also only a 2++ with 4W isn't invincible. Really needed magic res or to stay in units more. Shadow magic still doesn't work as a solo-lore.
      Quite liked both the Swarms and the 25-Brave bricks. Braves seemed to have great economy, could take on pretty much anything equal to or under their cost and be confident of victory.

      Orc army doesn't seem to have changed - mostly got better, can't think of anything that got worse. No animosity, Black Orcs now super scary, new Orc deck getting very strong magic missile, access to Wild and Shadow decks, Big BattleAxe. Very solid book. Would expect my opponent (a 2x Masters winner, by the way) to smash all nonsuspecting opposition who think Orcs are still nice and fluffy.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Bobo ().

    • 2400pts game vs an opponent of unknown experience level. I'd call mine on the expert/tournament borderline.

      I think we were both left thinking the Saurians had stronger choices than the Kingdoms of Equitaine.

      My list:

      Coatl, Alchemy, Scroll
      Carnosaur BSB, Armour of Destiny
      Warlord on Flying Carpet, Bluffer's Helm, Screaming Swords, 6+ ward, shield
      2 alpha-ramphodon skink chiefs

      30 spear saurus
      25 skinks poison ahw
      3*10 hunters

      2*5 chameleons
      2*1 salamander
      3 spearbacks

      Their list:

      Duke on pegasus, crystal ball, blessed sword, crusader's helm, virtue of (heroism? the HKB-replacement one)
      BSB with 5+ ward for whole unit virtue
      2 damsels (heavens/white lv2s) - one with scroll

      2*11ish knights

      10 grails, +1M banner
      3*3 pegasus knights, skirmish and vanguard

      Result: 2600-900 or so to me.

      The game had some utterly insane dice so it's hard to really draw conclusions from the overall result. (Both sides kept having incredibly unlucky occurrences - think my opponent got the worst of it in the end with a run of bad Ld tests.) Basically my plan was to clear the flank threats, then pin one lance, block a second and push Saurus forward.

      Just some observations then:

      - With only +2 to cast and 4 spells, my magic wasnt' all that effective - though something like two or three phases I failed an easy cast first spell which didn't help matters.

      -Alchemy, though, supports lists like this really well.

      -The spear saurus were a useful threat, but needed +movement abilities to really shine. I also did need to work to protect them from multiple charges. When they got into the Grails, they did well.

      -Flying carpet warlord was still very effective - useful and mobile threat.

      -Scarvet BSB on carnosaur was brilliant, but dice had a lot to do with that. It was an effective threat, though, and the 18" BSB bubble helped a lot.

      -Spearbacks feel too good. That density of shooting combined with mobility and combat power feel a bit over the top. They need a points increase or a drop in power level. Would still be an excellent unit without the AP, for example, and that might not even be enough... They feel a bit like old-DOC-Flamers used to, and I'm seriously considering using multiple units.

      -The alpha-ramphodon captains are very solid for their points, though in practice they end up being sacrificed a fair bit. Great at space denial though - again perhaps slightly undercosted. The Frenzy timing change makes them a lot stronger.

      -Most of opponent's units felt balanced. The grails and duke were very intimidating, but also fragile. The list as a whole felt like it was short a couple of support elements - either artillery pieces or support chaff - to be as capable as mine.
    • @tulmir

      I mostly concur - but we can take it in comments when I can just get a grab of this precious commodity they call leisure time..
      Make T9A armies clash again! #BringBackBattlelines

      Hermund Vigerust Endressòn Furu - Savage Sage of the Norse
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    • First of all, thanks for the fun game! I always like to play SA because there are many type of SA list, so I enjoy to see different lists each time, which I was jealous with SA :)

      As @The Kremlin stated, both of us had rolled weird sometimes. The Kremlin rolled so bad for magic phases and I missed so many LD 9 test and charges. That mad game unpredictable. But in the end, SA hold the line better and won the game.

      What I felt about SA list, it was kind of all around list. I liked the versatility. Slann may be kitted better for stronger magic phases but he takes lot for points! Saurus block with spear were amazing against KOE. 20 S4 Ap1 attacks (also lethal strike), re-roll 1's to hit. Even I charge, I will lose for sure.

      Spearback just were too good for what they do. They need balancing. In a competitive game, I'd expect more than one unit for sure.

      I could play more defensive and try to kill chaff with magic or Pegs before I got too close to SA line. That was a mistake from my part. But I didn't see any victory against Saurus block unless I charge with two units of Lances or a flank charge. There are still "must have" units such as Treb but I didn't bring one to game. I didn't feel too weak but I was didn't have answer to saurus block, spearback and bsb. KOE needs a push still.

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