Announcement O&G: public playtesting comments

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    • O&G: public playtesting comments

      Hi Worm.

      Thanks for the feedback.

      I'm play testing the Saurian list with Telepathic Anurid at the moment. Can I ask if LD bubble where such a problem why you didn't just concentrate on eliminating the magic beacons in the first few turns with your artillery? Unless its a priest on a Engined Triceratops they're not that survivable. So far I have found it a nice option for the Saurians but not OP as the additional expenditure of points to get the magic beacons you need to make it work restricts other selections in your list.
    • The answer is simple, i deployed first and i put all my unit down, so he put his Slann behind Hill and Priest in 12 Skinks, so to kill this guy i needed to hit with all my machinary, he is skirmish so if you hit you don't cover 10 modeles but more like 8 or even less and if i hit with one Catapult i still need to wund on 3+ so i won't kill all of them and then let's say that i will hit again with DoomDiver do AVG 3-4 hits and let's say i wound all off them Skink Pirst is still alive and goes to new unit ;), with balistas i had Hard cover and he was +6 wiz for dispelling with Slann, so i cound't do much in magic also. Don't forget that to kill his unit is very risky and i need HITS with catapults, there were Flyers with tone of attacks that could snajp my Wiz or BSB in CC, before i can do anything so my first target was this two units of flyers, they have tone of attacks and rerolls faild ones.

      So i tried my "luck" with tactic ALL in, i move all my units straight forward, but so much magic and shooting and redirectors is just to much, i think he was the only one that didn't loos a single game, he was second or third as he is still a new player and not like the best one, but still. I must also blame myself that i helped him with this list ;)

      I asked him there is really NO limit on Skinks, he said NOP, I was just cmon, nobady can win this.
      Explain to him what he needs to do and he could even win the tournament if he wouldn't have 0 points for painting and if he was a bit batter player or faster he didn't finish a single game all 6 turns :).

      But pleas tell me what can you do against this, i can't remeber all of the items powers and so but in general:
      Slann, with Telepathic Anurid, item +1 to cast and dispell, he knows add spell(Death, for character Snajping), dispell and he could channel on +4 or so, power.
      Skink Hero in Flyer with balista bow, with BS5 ;)
      Level 2 beast
      2xHero on Cold one +1armor GW and some Ward +4 or +5...
      CORE: 4x12 Skinks skirmish, 3x12 Skinks with shild poison
      2x 1 Salamander
      2x Fighty Fly unit with tone of attacks
      1x Fly unit with Flaming rocks
      2x Cameleon Skinks
      Some Skinks had blow javelins and othere blow pipes.
      So he had around 120 shoots per turn with poison and his extremly movment and LD is just briliant, now fight this ;) This is extremly alot of shoots even for 40K.
      So his tactic was simple first turn he is snajping characters with 2 dices Signature 1 wund no armor save from Death lore, then all other magic goes on his or my units.
      But tell me now what can othere Army's do against this, you don't panic on LD5 any more, the whole army is 40K army not slow fantasy with static movement, they all shoot when you finally come to one target he just move his character to new unit and runs away... Yes you can win this with Orcs not very hard all you need to do is put 3xThe spider the game, but then again they are not that good to play 3 of them agains other armies.
    • Well when i creating my list/s i am hopping to be good against as much Armies as possible, so you can't say that you will play 5 chariots in all games.

      Orc Chariot is just not good enough if you compare it to Goblin, Orc has one more wund and T5, but can move only 7 it has the same problem as WoC beast charitos in 8 ED nobady use them as they are to slow.
      How many chariots do you think you need to handle this list, if you go to full move forward you will be charged by Fly units, if not you are not doing anything, You will se a unit or two with one chariot, but let's say you go forward and he can't charg you, so he goes forward and shoot with 2 units of 12 Skinks to one chariots on AVG if he has Jevelins and as i put out that is 24 shoots from 2 units of 12, where he will do AVG 4 poisons and one or 2 more Wund,he will get panalty only for moving, not mentioning that Chameleon Skinks are BS4 and have 2 shoots each. Lets say that you roll good on your save +5 and save 2 of 5 wunds, Goblin Chariot is Death Orc on one Wund or 2 wunds, you charge on your turn with one more wund, he stand and shoot you die again... 9 units like this, magic fly units that can kill you on charg, heroes that can go in front of the chariot and take impact hits, Fly.
      Cmon i know what i am saying the only answer is 3 times SPIDER, but this is not universal list.

      Swarm of Goblins or Orcs, he has 2xSlamander S4 small template if you don't kill it it will erase your units for fun, again his Flying unit do tones of attack re-rolling to hit they will flank charge you, you can do anything as you are to slow.
      But again is Swarm of Units good vs all armies, NO and we are doing ETC rules here are tournament.
      And Lizzarmen can have +2 to cast or Dispell as my opponent did and belive me it is just not FUN to play against this.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Worm ().

    • Worm wrote:

      But tell me now what can othere Army's do against this
      As an Orc and Goblin General i'd be looking towards Gob Heros on Giant Gnashers, Wrecker Teams and/or Scrap Wagons. Random Movement is your friend against this sort of list. L4 Gob Mage on Arachnageoddon with book also casts and dispels at L5 and your lore attribute would help against the Anurid as well as the Lore being much more useful than the Big Gods (IMHO). Unit of 6 Stone Trolls wouldn't care about skink shooting in the short term. Large Unit of cave goblins with fanatics would have fun as he has nothing that breaks steadfast.

      In short my standard pure goblin list would give this a run for its money. It's hard but its certainly not unbeatable.
    • Don't forget that he has poison every where and around 120 shoots, i was playing Arachnageoddon and he was alive for 3 turns, i kill one of his skinks with it;) Trolls could do the job, but he can easyl avoid them or ignor them or flank charg with Skink Sky-Riders.

      Random movment is not good against them as AVG on 3D6 is only 9-11. So it is much slower than chariot and he will shoot you down.

      But you guys are not looking this corectly, i am NOT saying that this unbeatable, good now. But can you creat a list that can win this list and the tournament?

      And putting Level 4 on a spider is a lot of points that he will shoot down as fast as possible in 2 or 3 turns you are death 100% even if he looses 3 units it a very good trade.
    • Ghrolfang wrote:

      Worm wrote:

      But tell me now what can othere Army's do against this
      As an Orc and Goblin General i'd be looking towards Gob Heros on Giant Gnashers, Wrecker Teams and/or Scrap Wagons. Random Movement is your friend against this sort of list.
      Ghrolfang is right. I have a player in my group that a fields a list very similar to this, which he calls "the skink cloud". All those skirmishers can't flee or stand and shoot against random movers. To compensate for the relatively short range of 3d6, couple them with wolf chariots to threatened long range charges. Positioning of your forces is also incredibly important. You need to plan on having any successful charge you make overrun into a new unit. Not being able to field goblin bosses on big cave gnashers in units of gnasher dashers is a big drawback, as they provide him some cover from shooting and extra punch in combat, but with their points having gone down and better armour, the bosses should be ok on their own. Our shooting also out ranges his, so take advantage of that and concentrate fire as much as you can. But I can't say enough about the Cave goblin warboss on the big cave gnasher. Give his cheap magic armour and send him off. He has been the undisputed mvp of my army against this sort of thing, murdering everything, including; ripperdactles, skinks, salamander hunting packs, and even chasing down fleeing saurus blocks. The path of the little green god's is also much better now that evil eye is the signature, 3d6 s3 hits against t2 skinks is awesome. In summary, shoot'em, blast'em, and gnash'em, you'll do fine.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Manguin ().

    • Interesting list, i still can't find the list for Orcs.
      First problem is neanderorc are so much better that it is not even funny.
      The second what to do with our lord, to much points for his gear is not the right way to do it, so again neanderorc WarBoss is the top choice, for 200 points he is not to expensive and can do well in CC.
      If you play 2500points i will use 100% 2xGob-lobber 2xRock hurler and the spider as they are all just to good.
    • After 15 games I would agree with you Orcs/Gobos are not good enough in CC, I can't imagine a list of Orcs totally CC oriented.

      Normal Orcs are not good enough and Neanderorc are frenzy so your opponent will redirect them and kill other units.

      I am also playing Shooty Orcs/Gobos and I will give a chance to normal orcs in my next list.

      As second we are also not like the best in Shooting HE shooting is just Crazy I couldn't do anything against them, Queens Guard with Fire +2 to Wund combo is OP, my Arachnarok spider was death like no time.

      Same against Lizzy shooting...

      As I really LOVE 9 age, you will need to do something with shooting, I mean Orc book is amazing, but the problem is that some of the other races can do really BAD things to us ;)
    • A couple of things I would note about your common orcs:

      - I think you miscalculated their points total. You've written 325 pts whereas I concluded the unit would cost 290 pts.
      -You stated that what they do is 'nothing or die', where I think the point of common orcs with shields is to absorb damage as opposed to dishing it out.
      - I think comparing common orcs with Iron Orcs or Neanderorc Brutes is unfair, especially when you focus solely on damage output. If a unit of common orcs can lock up an enemy unit in combat and use their steadfast to pin them down, if only to stop your elite units being bogged down in unfavourable combat, then that might be enough to swing a game. This point is made on conjecture so I'm willing to concede it if this wasn't the case in your game.