Nippon for T9A

    This site uses cookies. By continuing to browse this site, you are agreeing to our Cookie Policy.

    The latest issue of the 9th Scroll is here! You can read all about it in the news.

    Our beta phase is finally over. Download The Ninth Age: Fantasy Battles, 2nd Edition now!

    And on December 24th, Father Chaos brought us... A brand new army book for Daemon Legions!

    • RIght now I am building my first Nippon Modells. But my first battle will be next monday.
      Do you have any tips on which units are must-have*s or dont-takes?

      I thought about something like this:

      Display Spoiler

      Daimyo on Warhorse (as General)
      Taisho as BSB (into the Samurai)
      Shugenja (into the Ashigaru Bowmen)
      Shinobi (into the Ninja)

      25 Samurai Warriors
      30 Yari Ashigaru
      20 Ashigaru Bowmen with Skirmisher

      20 Warrior Monks
      10 Ronin
      6 Red Devils

      5 Ninja

      2 Fire Arrows


      But I have no idea how to equip them or which magic items/banners to take ... ;(
      Can someone give me some hints, pls? :/
    • I have no experience with Nippon army either but I like certain units like red devils and great guard that I wanted to field so I made this 3k list for friendly matches and hope to expand it to 4,5k with oni and 25mm sumo warriors once I get a better idea of how they perform.

      Display Spoiler

      ++ Nippon - 9th Age Homebrew list (unofficial) [3000pts] ++

      + Characters +

      Daimyo [395pts]: Army General, Horo Cloak, Naginata (Halberd), Sode, Taneka, Tatsu
      . Special Equipment: Symbol of Imperial Rule

      Shugenja [380pts]: Divinitation, Horumi, Light Armour, Wizard Master

      + Core +

      Matchlock Ashigaru [252pts]: 21x Matchlock Ashigaru

      Samurai Warriors [555pts]: Champion, Katana, Musician, 30x Samurai Warriors, Sashimonos, Standard Bearer
      . Banner Enchantment: Banner of the Relentless Company

      + Special +

      Kabuki Dolls [150pts]: 7x Kabuki Dolls

      Red Devils [254pts]: Musician, 6x Red Devils
      . One Choice only: 6x Sode

      Red Devils [254pts]: Musician, 6x Red Devils
      . One Choice only: 6x Sode

      + Will of Kami +

      Great Guard [460pts]: Champion, Clan Mon Taneka, 4x Great Guard, Musician, Standard Bearer

      Mikoshi Shrine [300pts]: Clan Mon Horumi

      ++ Total: [3000pts] ++
    • Byron wrote:

      Calisson wrote:

      1. Nippon would get a special status, higher than most Homebrew, but not "official/ tournament approved".
      Isn't this status called Auxiliary Army? Why not make Nippon an Auxiliary Army?
      Auxiliary Armies will get a new name: Supplement Army, in order to appear not as a derogatory auxiliary, but as a real addition.
      No matter, some reasons why a Homebrew, no matter perfect, is hard (I didn't say impossible) to transform into a supplement are:
      1- is BG compatible?
      2- who is going to maintain that book edition after edition?

      1- can be worked out beforehand.
      2- is a long term commitment, which requires the case to be very convincing.

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • New

      Calisson wrote:

      Byron wrote:

      Calisson wrote:

      1. Nippon would get a special status, higher than most Homebrew, but not "official/ tournament approved".
      Isn't this status called Auxiliary Army? Why not make Nippon an Auxiliary Army?
      Auxiliary Armies will get a new name: Supplement Army, in order to appear not as a derogatory auxiliary, but as a real addition.No matter, some reasons why a Homebrew, no matter perfect, is hard (I didn't say impossible) to transform into a supplement are:
      1- is BG compatible?
      2- who is going to maintain that book edition after edition?

      1- can be worked out beforehand.
      2- is a long term commitment, which requires the case to be very convincing.
      I have been following almost from the start of this thread, which is almost 3 years old now (march 2016) and Caledoriv have probably been working on it before this point, thats commitment :)
      I guess if it were to be an Auxiliary army he could do with a smaller team, usually he has worked it out himself with a little help from this thread.

      Not sure what BG means?
    • New

      Cool :)

      Well everything can be subject to uncharted lands, a large island, that havn't been found... yet.
      It has been seen before in numerous different games, series and stuff.
      World of Warcraft for one, tries to reinvent itself by coming up with new content, the difference is, it is well known lore, but still have to invent new stuff.

      Old GW starting the 2000's did have the Albion stuff, and I remember a time when Ogres didn't exist :)

      It would be a lot of work, but it would be nice to have a guideline of what to do, if the army should be semi official - auxiliary book.

      As i remember Caledoriv pretty much follow Empires asaw, but with more weakness as it can't be too strong, imo that's the way to start.
      I am just rambling on now :)
    • New

      Regarding official recognition I must wonder what the point is? It can't be one for "private matches" as you can easily agree with your opponent to be allowed to use Nippon. So generally I see the following options/reasons:
      1. Being able to play the army at tournaments → that is up to the TO. If you can convince them to allow Nippon there is nothing in the way. I think @Calisson already made a very good proposal in giving the Nippon book a prominent status above all the other homebrews. The differentiating factor could be to make Nippon officially downloadable on the downloads page. There are other "non core" rules there as well, like the magical terrain. Also it would make it easier for me to find the download :)
        Verdict: If you want this, you can easily facilitate it: Speak to every TO you attend and tell them you want Nippon to be allowed. If denied, ask them what needs to be there for them to consider it and provide that as feedback.
      2. Having official team to work on numbers&balancing → this is quite unreasonable. There are 14 armies with higher player attraction to be made into FABs plus things like scenarios, campaigns, etc. Demanding a spot before any of those is ridiculous.
      3. Having official team to work on background → this is something I can understand, but would of course require @Caledoriv to give up on "the power" to name things like he wants. Also if background sees conflict between a certain unit and something they plan for a different setting, they might need to even remove things from the book. This is something to be thought about, because in this scenario the BGT is the one which needs to produce a coherent background and the Nippon book will have to play its part.
      My blog with battle reports and painting gallery: bleaklegion.wordpress.com/
    • New

      I don't get nearly to play as much as I'd like to, but yesterday I played a game (4500 points) with Nippon to test the new version with the following list:

      Display Spoiler
      Shugenja, Master Pyromancy, Crown of Autocracy, Badge of the Imperial Court
      Taisho, BSB
      Yamabushi, 2+ Armour, Luck Stone
      Shinobi, all poisons, shinzei

      14 Samurai Cavalry, CMS, Yumi, Banner of the Seven winds
      50 Yari Ashigaru, CMS
      2x 10 Ashigaru Bowmen, skirmishers
      5 Samurai Cavalry, M

      9 Yabusame, Ashiwara (due to Badge of the Imperial Court)
      10 Kabuki Dolls, Shinzei
      5 Ninja, Shinzei
      25 Warrior Monks, CMS
      8 Oni
      Fire Arrow
      Mikoshi Shrine



      I played against DH with a new player (probably his 5th game), who was still trying out new units for the first time. It was a practice game for him to get to know the rules better.
      I showed him how to evade his big scary block of kingsguard with several characters inside by simply fleeing with my units that it charged... In the end, the unit saw exactly one close combat against my 5 Samurai Cavalry chaff unit in the last turn. I believe that was a really helpful lesson for him :) .
      Anyway, I noticed I was a bit hasty to upload the new version on the same day that I finished working on it. I probably need to make a hotfix soon as some point values are not quite right and rather cheap.

      Day wrote:

      Daimyo on Warhorse (as General)
      Taisho as BSB (into the Samurai)
      Shugenja (into the Ashigaru Bowmen)
      Shinobi (into the Ninja)

      25 Samurai Warriors
      30 Yari Ashigaru
      20 Ashigaru Bowmen with Skirmisher

      20 Warrior Monks
      10 Ronin
      6 Red Devils

      5 Ninja

      2 Fire Arrows
      It's rather risky with your General: If only 2 Red Devils die, your opponent can assign shooting hits (especially from war machines) to it. And you have no other cavalry unit to hide in.
      Plus, putting your general in a unit with Frenzy is also quite risky.

      Apart from that I believe this is a solid list :).

      valkyriePROfail wrote:

      Daimyo [395pts]: Army General, Horo Cloak, Naginata (Halberd), Sode, Taneka, Tatsu. Special Equipment: Symbol of Imperial Rule

      Shugenja [380pts]: Divinitation, Horumi, Light Armour, Wizard Master

      + Will of Kami +

      Great Guard [460pts]: Champion, Clan Mon Taneka, 4x Great Guard, Musician, Standard Bearer

      Mikoshi Shrine [300pts]: Clan Mon Horumi
      There are several problems with this list:
      - blue: The Symbol of Imperial Rule can only be used by infantry characters. So no mounts allowed together with it.
      - red: You can only have one Clan Mon in the entrie army. I.E. you cannot mix Horumi and Taneka.

      Also, I uploaded a new version this week. You might want to check that out.

      DarkSky wrote:

      Verdict: If you want this, you can easily facilitate it: Speak to every TO you attend and tell them you want Nippon to be allowed. If denied, ask them what needs to be there for them to consider it and provide that as feedback.
      I'd love to do that, but it will be of no avail, at least here in Germany. People here are really hesitant when it comes to anything homebrew. And that is put quite politely...
      I have long pondered whether I should allow Nippon in the tournaments I organise. I ultimately decided against it, as there are VERY few people in my region and it is the only tournament with regularly more than 20 attending people. If I allowed Nippon, I believe quite a few people would decide not to come anymore.

      Now if I was living in a region where there are lots of players, I'd totally go for it. But right now, the risk is too high in my opinion.

      DarkSky wrote:

      Having official team to work on background → this is something I can understand, but would of course require @Caledoriv to give up on "the power" to name things like he wants. Also if background sees conflict between a certain unit and something they plan for a different setting, they might need to even remove things from the book. This is something to be thought about, because in this scenario the BGT is the one which needs to produce a coherent background and the Nippon book will have to play its part.
      I am currently writing my thesis to conclude my studies at universaty. So my main attention currently lies elsewhere, but I intend to incorporate the Nippon fluff into the official fluff eventually.
      That wasn't possible up to now, as it is still confidential (to my current knowledge).

      Day wrote:

      Why can Yabusame take the Banner of the Seven Winds? Is this really just because of the chars, that join them?
      Precisely for this reason :). It just feels strange to have the core unit gain benefits from it, but not allowing it for the special unit.

      Wohoel wrote:

      I have been following almost from the start of this thread, which is almost 3 years old now (march 2016) and Caledoriv have probably been working on it before this point, thats commitment
      I just checked: I remember playing a agame against the 8th Edition Vampires, when they were not all too old. I alse remember that I was working secretely on the project for at least a year before that. So I guess I started working on the Nippon army probably in 2011.
      And I do not intend to stop anytime soon :).
    • New

      Caledoriv wrote:

      It's rather risky with your General: If only 2 Red Devils die, your opponent can assign shooting hits (especially from war machines) to it. And you have no other cavalry unit to hide in.
      Plus, putting your general in a unit with Frenzy is also quite risky.

      Apart from that I believe this is a solid list :).
      Thx for this feedback - this was rlly helpfull! :)

      Based on this I rewrote my list:
      Display Spoiler

      --- Characters ---
      440 - Daimyo, Heavenly Glory (50), Death Cheater (100), Horo Cloak, Sode, No-Dachi (Great Weapon), Mon of the Uruchi Clan, Yumi (2+) (Longbow) (goes into the Samurai)
      330 - Taisho, Horo Cloak, Sode, Yumi (2+) (Longbow), No-Dachi (Great Weapon), Mon of the Uruchi Clan, Battle Standard Bearer, Mirumoto's Battle Standard (goes into the Samurai)
      375 - Shugenja, Light Armour, Wizard Master (goes into the Bowmen)
      285 - Shinobi, Snake Venom, Night Milk, Dripping Poison, gain Scout and Vanguard (goes into the Ninja)

      --- Core ---
      765 - 25x Samurai Warriors, Yumi (3+) (Longbow) (25), Sashimonos, No-Dachi (Great Weapon) (25), Uruchi (25), Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer, Banner of the Relentless Company
      260 - 30x Yari Ashigaru, Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer
      145 - 15x Ashigaru Bowmen, gain Skirmisher and lose Scoring (15)

      --- Special ---
      395 - 20x Warrior Monks, Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer
      175 - 7x Ronin
      355 - 5x Red Devils, Sashimonos, Sode (5), Vanguard, Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer

      --- Ranged Warfare ---
      150 - 5x Ninja
      150 - Fire Arrow
      150 - Fire Arrow

      --- Will of the Kami ---
      135 - Kitsune
      390 - 3x Great Guard, Sashimonos, Champion, Musician, Standard Bearer

      --- Total ---
      4500


      The biggest problem, that I have with this list is, that my Samurai-Unit devours 30% of the points X/
      This is why I am thinking about rewriting the whole list and focus on MSU and/or 3 Mizuchis (one as mount and two normal ones) combined with 2-3 Tide Jewels. Has anyone tested anything like this before?
    • New

      Are you using the newest version?

      Red Devils cannot have both Sode and Vanguard. You have to choose between one :).

      There can only be 1 Tide Jewel in the army as it is a normal magical item. So you can only get up to one additional piece of terrain. But Mizuchi do not gain as much benefit from water anymore in the newest version, so I'm not entirely sure how useful that'd be.
    • New

      I really believe the new design is much better than the old one (not stronger, but more balanced). The limited range of only 12" for the bound spell was a bit hard to deal with, but that is only because my main fighting units never saw combat and my units on the flank would have needed the buff (but were out of range).
      The better save against ranged attacks is really good, as it helps our troops to actually reach their targets and not die from magic and shooting too easily.

      Bound spells aren't that weak, as your opponent either has to gamble (dispel an 8 with only 2D6), which means it is quite likely that your spell will not be dispelled. Or he sacrifices 3 dispel dice, making an equal trade with your magic dice and thus giving you an advantage.
    • New

      Since you have more magic dice than your opponent has dispel dice, dispel dice are "more valuable". Thus, if you can trade 3 magic dice against 3 dispel dice, you actually win something. Because then there won't be enough dice for other spells.

      You can also think of it this way: If your opponent uses 3 dice to dispel a bound spell, you haven't lost all that much since your opponent also lost 3 dice. In this case, a bound spell is not worse than a spell you cast normally. Yes, the average result is worse than using 3 dice to cast an ordinary spell, but if your opponent still needs 3 dice to dispel it, it is fine. Your spell is cast automatically, after all :). I don't know how often I failed casting attempts needing to roll a 7 or 8 with 3D6.


      ------
      @ all:
      What do you guys think about longbows for Samurai? Should Yumi be treated as normal bows instead? Or should they get their own rules?
      Do you consider longbows unfitting for the Nippon army?

      During my last test game, I was asked why mounted Samurai had longbows as rules instead of normal bows. Someone argued that longbows in history were much more powerful than any other bow and thus should be reserved only for certain units (and elves); and especially not be used for cavalry.
      Now I know that Samurai have a long tradition of archery. With the asymmetric bows, I actually can imagine them riding a horse and still shooting with their bows. Does anyone here have either archery skills or knowledge about Japanese archery?
    • New

      Caledoriv wrote:

      ------

      @ all:
      What do you guys think about longbows for Samurai? Should Yumi be treated as normal bows instead? Or should they get their own rules?
      Do you consider longbows unfitting for the Nippon army?
      ... a Yumi is a longbow by definition and its a fact that the Samurai used them on horses. ;)

      But I think I should give some sources to this statement. :)

      First of all: there is a nice documentary, that compares the Yumi and the english longbow youtube.com/watch?v=ZnRX_Cqhwb8 (I dont think, that the shots that were measuerd were shot on the "right" traditional way. This is why I wouldnt sustain only on this source.)
      If you just take a short look at Wikipedia (yes I know "Wikipedia is no good source ... bla bla" - but it is the common "take a first look about a toppic"-site) it quotes that there are two types of Yumi. The most common one is the daikyū. This is the one used on the battlefields and the ones we want to represent. The daikyū is the japanese longbow. (see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yumi)
      There is a second japanese bow, the hankyū. This bow is shorter and could be defined as a "normal" bow. The reason why it is not really significant for us is that this bows are developed to be used in confined spaces, like rooms or forests.

      The real difference between the english longbow and the japanese yumi is their armour penetration. The english bow is developted to penetrate the metal mails of medival europe while the yumi is not able to do this.
      The logical consequences would be to give the longbow a higher AP than the yumi. Since the longbow already has a AP of 0 I think, that we can negligible this.
      It is like the fact, that most of the other races have "normal bows" (with the same ruleset) although they have to be obivious different in material and effect. ;)

      Do you need more sources? I can give more arguments but dont want to bore you guys :whistling:

      The post was edited 3 times, last by Day ().