Creating named characters (mechanically, at the very least)

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    • Creating named characters (mechanically, at the very least)


      Now then, this is a much more mechanical look at base aspects (such as increased stats, granting new, flavorful special abilities and hints on making newer abilities or magical items), and as such suggestions on how to make your own fluff/ suggestions that are based on any 9th age fluff that currently exists shouldn't really be expected here. I'll leave that up to individual tables to determine on their own.

      Of course, this is only a general, rather simple guide. Particular combinations of abilities or stat blocks will be far more effective than others, and certain models will need ability costs adjusted based on the stat block they are attached to (such as Hatred on a high S, WS and A model). General guidelines will be given on how to adjust these costs, but not everything can be fully tested from the gate by just me and my friends.

      Now then, time for me to start this up. As we go through, I'll start building a custom hero (for the Vampire Covenant) named "Retkish; the King of the Black Tower" just as an example character, and the third post will contain his full stat block with some rules for mounts and companions. The second post will contain a pricing guide for many of the general abilities, and the first post (this one) will be full of advice on how to build your base hero, along with general tips on how to make magic items and the like. From what to use as the base, to prices based on increasing ability scores, along with limits on how many special abilities any items you give your hero/ lord monstrosities (because the name of 9th age is moderation!) all shall be covered in this handy guide. Without any further ado...


      Step 1: Choose your base

      The first thing to do is figuring out just what your hero is meant to be. To this end, look at the army book your hero belongs to and choose one character from it that matches your base concept for your hero. Next, look at any applicable mundane upgrades that you would reasonably give them that the flavor you were going for (e.g; if you were trying to go for a Dread Elf pirate lord, then taking the Fleet Commander upgrade would be more than expected). This will be your base cost for your hero. IMPORTANT NOTE: Do NOT, I repeat NOT, start giving them options for abilities outside of their base chassis yet, that will be covered in further sections. For now, just stick with what a generic hero would be expected to have.

      For our example (using the Vampire Covenant), we are going to be making a Barrow King that was once a dread elven Tower Guard before *backstory stuff here*. Unfortunately, beyond upgrading him to have a halberd, which would increase his point cost by 8, there isn't much in the base Barrow King chassis to represent this. However, since many heroes have a magical weapon and armor, for now we will just use the Barrow King base price of 160 points as the base for all of Retkish's further purchases.

      Note, now that we have decided on which mundane upgrades to purchase from the base kit (in this case, none), the hero will not be able to receive any future upgrades from this list. This does bar our hero from being a battle standard bearer, but for the most part this is okay. These heroes are supposed to be powerful, stable characters, and their stat blocks being set a bit more in stone should reflect this. Besides, they will be enough of a point sink by the time all of this is done anyway... you don't want to make them too cost prohibitive now, do you? As a rule, I would suggest keeping your custom heroes away from the BSB upgrades for the most part, it costs you more points and only really works on a specific hero concept (which is the banner bearer for a general/ king... so a side companion of a different, more important named character).

      Once you are done here, it's time to move on to...

      Step 2: Attribute modifications

      Of course, after determining your starting point then the next logical step is to look at the modification of stats like WS, BS, S, etc. In good old Warhammer (and other, similar, wargames), named heroes have traditionally been set apart from their lesser, generic kin by increased attributes. While not necessarily changed from the norm, in fact many of them keep the same stat line and differentiate themselves in other, more unique manners, those who are meant to be the pinnacle of martial skill, truly inspiring or magically empowered can be modeled with the following prices.

      Prices listed here are meant to be balanced against costs to increase a character's starting base attributes, so you only apply these costs each time you would increase an attribute by a step beyond their starting value. The cost of raising an attribute depends on what you are raising it to instead of how many points you have increased it by,
      since the value of a higher attribute increases the higher you can get it. (Get enough BS and you never miss shooting attacks, enough WS and nothing short of a lord will hit you easily, that sort of thing). As this is going to be quite a long section, each segment is going to be divided into its own group. Because not all stats are created equally, they scale and start at different point values.

      As a general guideline, you should not raise a hero's attributes by more than 3 points (total), while a lord might increase their attributes by up to 4. Any farther than that, and things get really quite silly.

      WS/ BS and I
      Weapon's skill, Balistics Skill and initiative are all roughly the same value. They have the same scales, increase and decrease at rather similar rates, and each race has members that run along all scales of the spectrum. Typically, 1-3 in this category shows basic competence, something that warriors and mages alike should really just be able to manage if they are even worthy of the title. 4-5 denotes a scarred veteran, a warrior that knows his way about the chaos of the battlefield, and so it costs a bit to actually improve a warrior to this degree, though not all too much. 6-9 denotes a creature of supernatural skill and appearance, almost as if the winds of magic touch their every stroke. Finally, a 10 in any of these categories belongs only to a character who is quite simply godlike in his or her skill, untouchable by any but the greatest of warriors, or the deadliest of spells. Becoming this powerful is quite difficult, and so costs rather a large chunk of points for any but the most naturally gifted to achieve.
      1-3: 0 points per tic
      4-5: +10 points per tic
      6-8 +15 points per tic
      9: +25 points per tic (WS only)
      10: +35 points (WS only)

      (As WS can be negated by parry, and super high WS doesn't actually provide much protection, its scaling cost has become a bit less harsh. BS as well is nearly worthless after you get to BS 8+, so the option to purchase it is disallowed)

      A/ W
      Another similar category, a creature's attacks and wounds seem to have quite similar upper limits! A creature's wounds and attacks determine both just how lethal the creature can be in a melee, and how much punishment they can take in return. While stats like strength or weapon skill might determine other defenses and offensive capabilities, wounds and toughness determine a character's staying power. In this category, only 1 and 2 are considered "standard" between both heroes and lords, with more powerful characters scaling up to 4 or 5, and nigh-unkillable blenders standing proudly at a rating of 6.

      Of course, most characters are not going to have 6 in both categories, as that would be far, far too potent for a single infantry or cavalry model to possess, so a special limitation is placed on this category: You may only increase these two stats by a combined total of 2. These 2 points can be increased in any combination, either one in each or both in one. However, any more than this is not recommended for balanced play in the slightest, and no character should ever get above a 6.
      1-2: 0 points per tic
      3: +10 points
      4: +20 points
      5: +30 points
      6: +50 points

      S/ T
      Strength and Toughness are directly proportional to one another, one making you harder to wound, while the other makes you wound others easier. Now then, these are among the most potent attributes in the game, and denote the difference between a skink and goblin, and a demon lord. A 1-3 is bog standard, and even fragile for heroic characters meant to survive things that would fell a simple mortal. 4's are for mortals who can take a bit of a beating and keep on ticking, while 5's and 6's are reserved for the truly powerful, difficult to wound creatures, typically monsters. The most powerful of all monsters can reach truly ludicrous heights, maxing themselves out at 7's in one, or sometimes even both categories.

      And again, this category has massive impacts on game balance. As such, only one attribute or the other may be raised, and it may only be increased by 1. Additionally, while the maximum is technically 7, only characters that happen to be monsters are allowed to increase their strength or toughness to this level.
      1-3: 0 points per tic
      4-5: +20 points per tic
      6: +40 points
      7: +60 points (Monster/ ridden monster only)

      And then we come to the big daddy himself, Leadership. Well guess what? These special characters are most definitely supposed to be leaders (unless they have the Not a Leader rule, or leadership doesn't really matter like with any undead army... like our example. But shush about that for now, we're working here. ) Naturally, these characters are meant to have high LD values, but then, most characters already do. So this category, while arguably quite influential, isn't meant to be all too expensive, and isn't really meant to gate anything but the highest values behind a prohibitive cost barrier.
      1-6: 0 points per tic
      7-8: +10 points per tic
      9: +20 points
      10: +30 points

      Now then, before anyone yells at me about not including M, that cost is already taken care of by taking mount options. I'm also not sure how to balance costs on movement, since that is so very volatile and abusable one way or the other that I just really, really don't want to try balancing out a system to improve it. As well, named characters didn't traditionally move farther than their normal character counterparts (unless there was an ability to help them march/ charge farther), they just do more once they do get in, or bring some other ability to the battlefield that helps with utility or defense.

      Now then, onto our example: keeping up with Retkish, we first take the base Barrow King stat line, which is as follows;


      Now then, Retkish is an ex-elf (a tower guard, to be specific), which is animated by his own power and hatred. This we can reflect by giving him certain "elfy" abilities, such as:
      +2 WS (Bringing him up to 7. Since both WS 6 and WS 7 cost 15 points, this is a 30 point upgrade)
      +1 I (bringing him up to 5, a 10 point upgrade)
      That will fill out all of his attribute increases, since Retkish is a hero-level character, and grants Retkish the following stat line as opposed to a standard Barrow King's;

      47 (+2)--4535 (+1)38

      He will also now cost 200 points over-all vs the basic 160 points we had before. Of course, this is naked and without getting into his abilities or magic items yet... but then, that's what the next step is for, isn't it?

      Step 3: Magical Items

      For the final section in this post, we have the creation of unique magical items. Some of them doing good things for your hero, others... well, they are a mixed bag of good and bad things. As a general rule, characters should have no more than two custom items, though Lords may have a third magic item, at the cost of exchanging one of their 3 special rules (which will be covered later in the next post).

      Also note, These characters should not feel confined to the points limits on magic items. If a hero would normally only be able to take 100 points of magic items, and their items end up costing more, that limit should be ignored in favor of making the hero as effective and fitting to the fluff as possible (to a limit of 300/150 points for lords/ heroes respectively). However, that said, no single item should be worth more than 90 points for a hero, or 140 points for a lord, and items that push this limit should still be rare.

      Simple items
      Now then, most items are actually quite easy to create. If you are looking to create something that has a similar effect to an already existing item, then look at the points cost of the core item and just adjust pricing from there. Let's say you wanted to make a weapon that re-rolls failed to-wounds. Well the blessed sword already does that, but also grants divine attacks on top of that! Since divine attacks seems to generally cost ~30 points, this gives your item a 20 point base, with potentially more costs on top.

      If it is a combination of item effects from the core rulebook, then that will be rather simple as well; To continue the example, let's say you wanted to your weapon to give a 5+ ward save on top of rerolling failed to-wounds. Looking at both Armor of Fortune and the Talisman of Greater Shielding, this upgrade seems to be 50 points over all, making our hand weapon a rather fair 70 points. Finally, let's take a look at the weapon type. For the sake of this example, let's make this weapon a spear, which has an advantage over a hand weapon in that it gives AP (1), so we will increase the cost of our example weapon by 10 more points for the base components, making this spear an 80 point magic item (over all). We'll call this weapon something like "The Warmaster's Spear" and leave it at that.

      A more complete list of "base" weapon/ armor prices will of course be in its own spoiler with a table of some kind. However, hopefully this shows the general process to creating the more "simple" of magic items.

      Unique items
      Now then, these are... tricky, to say the least. Some of these items are simply just so strange that it is hard to place if they are good or bad. This is honestly just a gut feeling that can only be given guidelines too, which means that this is going to have to be a super-vague list of what to do and what not to do.

      Now then, the first thing to remember is that these unique items are not meant to be more powerful than items other characters can take! While they might be rather strong in some cases, they should be different, unique options that are not present within the army book or core rule book. Different options do not necessitate being more powerful than the others at a given price tag, just that there is something unique about them.

      For combat-related items, you have to look at what it brings to your table. If the item inflicts extra attacks (albeit under special circumstances), then do these extra attacks automatically hit? If so, then what is their strength? What is their AP? Does your item restore wounds when it damages or even destroy models? If so, then is it a sure-fire wound restored, or does it have to be characters, or instead require a dice roll? How does this item affect the combat potential of the model, and what role does the item give your character (or at least push them towards)? These are all questions that you should be asking yourself at bare-minimum. As a general points guideline, give your combat item a base cost and limits of the following (before other effects):

      While each item will be unique and bring its own costs for abilities (the effects of which will have to be ball-parked until they have been properly play-tested), certain limitations and the most over-arching abilities can be given a general base cost. Note that specific effects will still have to be paid for as seems balanced, but this should give you a (hopefully somewhat decent) starting point for the item's effect.
      -If the effect is limited to one stage of a turn, either magic, shooting or CC: 10 points base
      -If the item benefits in any two phases: +30 points
      -If the effect has no limits on range or stage (an item that benefits in magic, shooting and CC): +40 points
      -If the effect is triggered, but hits or grants benefits automatically (such as always dealing a S4 hit to a model that hits this character in CC, or always restores a lost wound at the end of a round of shooting in which the character dealt X wounds): +30 points
      -If the effect improves an existing character racial trait (such as a vampiric roll or killer instinct): +10 points per step the trait is improved.
      -If the effect activates on a dice roll (not like modifying/ rerolling attack rolls or wound rolls, but getting benefit from the effect at all, such as a Vampiric roll): -10 points (to a minimum of 10 points)
      -If the effects require a specific, some-what rare or otherwise limited, trigger (like the bearer generating a miscast, being hit in CC or dealing wounds in CC): -10 points (to a minimum of 10 points)
      -If the item is one-use only: -20 points (to a minimum of 10)

      Similarly, here are some things you should not do/ limitations on items designed here.
      -Any hits caused by things other than attacks made directly by the model (for instance retaliatory hits/ wounds) should never be higher than either the model's base strength or 5, whichever is lower.
      -The item's abilities should be limited in range, either to the character himself (including the character's attacks, if relevant), units the character joins, or units in base contact with the character. Other affects will be incredibly hard to balance out, and should likely be handled in unique character abilities.
      -Banners should only be on characters that are upgraded to be battle standard bearers. Just to make that perfectly clear...
      -Mounts should not have their own items. You would honestly be surprised how much I get asked what magical barding would be worth...
      -((More to be added based on commentary))

      Equipment types
      The final thing to consider when making an item is what kind of item are you making? Is it a greatsword or halberd? A suit of plate armor or a simple robe? Depending on what it is, it very well could cost you just a little bit extra dosh to put on your chosen champion.

      -Hand weapon: 0 points
      -Halberd: 0 points (while +1 Strength is good, you are sacrificing your shield for it and the halberd offers no further defense)
      Flail: 10 points (while +2 strength is really, really good, a flail not only removes the defense of the shield, it also makes the character easier to hit! Good for a glass cannon, but also weaker for it)
      -Spear: 10 points (AP (1) is a straight upgrade on a hand weapon)
      -Paired weapons: 10 points (+1 attack and +1 initiative are often as good as the +1 AS of a shield, so sacrificing a shield for a paired weapon costs about the same)
      -Lance: 15 points (+2 Strength on a charge only is good on offense and an upgrade to a hand weapon. No actual downsides either)
      -Great weapon: 20 points (+2 strength all the time ensures that though you may strike last, you will be the only one standing. When combined with lightning reflexes, you sacrifice accuracy for strength instead which is almost always a good trade.)

      -None: 0 points (only the magical effect is being paid for.)
      -Innate defense 6+/ Light armor/ Shield: 10 points (the weakest of all saves, but an armor save none the less.)
      -Innate defense 5+/ Heavy armor: 20 points (A bit better, but still somewhat easy to circumvent with the proper strength/ AP.)
      -Innate defense 4+/ Plate armor: 30 points (the best protection around, and for a very good reason. You get what you pay for here.)

      Coming to the end of this section, let's wrap things up by making some items for Rektish! Now then, for this character we have a Barrow King who was once a dread elven Tower Guard. His weapon is simple enough to design, but his armor... That is something unique that I feel I can get just a little creative with.

      First we'll build the halberd. Since we are going for something simple, we will just make it so the halberd gives an extra +1 strength, for a total of +2. Seeing as halberds have a base cost of 0, given their typical strength boost is balanced by removing access to a shield, this should cost the same as a Sword of Strength. So Rektish's points cost simply increases by 30 points.

      And next we have his armor. I suppose that here would be a good place to make a new item and effect, just to show how I envisioned this working. First, what does the King of the Black Tower wear? Well besides his cloak and old, battered helm, we have a heavily armored nigh-invulnerable undead badass (of badassitude) who's armor is greater than that of his fallen subordinates. While DE towerguard wear heavy armor, this king of the black tower will wear plate armor. Next, what magic will actually be part of this plate? Well, since this is a very spite and hate filled warrior, how about something that allows him to counter-attack an enemy that damages him in CC? More specifically, let's make an item with the following profile:

      Plate of Swift Vengeance
      Type: Plate armor. For each unsaved wound dealt to Rektish, the King of the Black Tower may make an attack against the model that wounded him at the current initiative step. In addition, while wearing this armor Rektish gains an additional wound (bringing him to a total of 4).

      Now then, looking at the chart to determine the costs of this item... Well we already know it is plate armor (30 points), it has an effect that is only usable in CC (10 points), the effect triggers automatically given Rektish takes a wound, and given the recent ultra nerf to VC where they really aren't able to heal their characters in their magic phase any more, the effect is probably worth around 40 points. However, it requires a specific trigger (being wounded) (-10 points), and requires two dice rolls to gain any benefit (-20 points over-all). Finally, increasing the wounds characteristic by 1 is 20 points, but since we are attaching that to an item instead of the original stat bonuses, and it brings him above the allotted 3 point maximum, we'll add a 10 point luxury tax on top of that. So the item cost over-all is 30+10+40+30-10-20= 80 points.

      Over-all, with these two magic items added in, our King of the Black Tower now costs 310 points. And finally, we are going to move onto the more interesting part... Adding and creating special abilities!

      The post was edited 6 times, last by Gnomes2169 ().

    • Step 4: Character Special Rules

      Now we come to the section that I believe everyone will enjoy just a little bit... adding special rules to make these characters more of your own!

      Now as a note, only 3 rules should be added, at most, to any character, regardless of if they are lords or heroes, and to make things simple try to keep it so that only one, count them a single one of these, will be a unique rule. This is simply to make it so that the character is easier to remember and keep in check. Too many special rules is confusing, and might simply be forgotten with how much the armies have been changed recently. If you want to, you may sacrifice this unique rule for a third magical item (since both of them are mechanically the same thing, just fluffed differently).

      If you are playing a narrative-style campaign where the characters progress, making new items and rules can (and probably will) happen over the course of the game, and since you will be changing the character as time goes on and giving them upgrades anyway, this is where multiple unique abilities would come in.

      Core book special abilities
      So then, this is... a really rather massive section. And instead of going through each and every one of these abilities and assigning them an individual point value or conditions for every rule in particular would be time consuming, boring, a long list of things no one cares about, and over-all just not a good idea. So instead, if a special rule isn't listed here, simply assume it's worth 30 points.

      However, while a lot (and I mean a LOT) of special rules can fall under this general guideline, there are also quite a few exceptions. So I'll go through them alphabetically, write down each rule in particular, and then make a small line of reasoning explaining why the rule is adjusted that way. Also note, there are certain "negative rules" that you can pay to get rid of, or take to make your hero less expensive. These rules tend to hamper a character's effectiveness in some way, and it does not count towards your extra special rules count to take or remove these abilities. They will be clearly labeled via bolding, for your convenience.

      So without further ado. *Inhales*

      Ambush: +60 points, a very, very, very, very useful rule for both solo characters and characters joining an ambush unit alike. Just imagine a SE shapeshifter that can enter the board riiiiight behind all of those juicy war machines and gun lines...

      Armor Piercing: +10 points/ level of armor piercing. Not as powerful as strength, and not useful against already low-armor units (*Cough, cough, demons and rats*).

      Bodyguard: +10 points (hero only), and you must specify which character (or character type) the bodyguard is for. Given the high LD value of heroes and lords in general, and how common the bodyguard rule is on high-impact units, this rule isn't the most vital or powerful rule, so it doesn't need to be as expensive as the others.

      Breath weapon: The Strength and special rules of the breath weapon determine its cost, in the following ratios:

      Strength/ A-P123456 (A-P only)
      Cost6 points10 points20 points30 points40 points50 points

      Adding Flaming attacks, Lightning attacks or Magical attacks: +10 points apiece
      Making the weapon toxic attacks: +600 points

      Cannot march: -40 points, cannot be taken or removed on characters who are mounted on a chariot. Hopefully the reasoning behind this rule is clear enough, but removing a hero's ability to march severely reduces their mobility... which reduces their offensive, defensive and maneuvering power by quite a lot.

      Demonic instability: -30 points, cannot be removed from any hero that naturally has it. A character given this trait can never join a unit. Needless to say, even if it's not likely to damage a lord or hero, DI is just a terrible thing to have. But the only real balance on DL power. So sorry DL, you are not allowed to remove this one.

      Ethereal: +60 points, simply because it makes heroes incredibly hard to kill without magic or magic weapons...

      Fight in Extra Rank: Does literally nothing for characters. Do not give it to characters, but if you do, it is 0 points.

      Fly: +50 points, this time because of the massive boost to mobility. Seriously, just wow.

      Frenzy: +10 points, because the chance to lose control of your hero, and losing the special rule if you lose combat makes adding this even more of a liability.

      Grinding attacks (x): Can only be taken by chariots. This special rule modifies the character's chariot mount only, and uses the chariot's strength for the attacks. Since the number of grinding attacks are variable, here is the cost for them:
      -1: +10 points
      -2/ d3: +20 points
      -d3+1: +40 points

      Hatred: +30 points. Rerolls to wound are relatively good,

      Impact hits: Variable cost based on troop type, which determines how many impact hits occur, as explained below. Chariots already have their own impact hits applied to their price tag.
      -Infantry/ Cavalry/ War beast: 1 impact hit at the character/ mount's strength, +5/ +10 points.
      -Monstrous Infantry/ Cavalry: 1d3 impact hits at the character/ mount's strength, +10/+15 points.
      -Monster/ Ridden monster: d6 impact hits at the character/ mount's strength, +15/ +20 points.
      -Adding +1 impact hit: +5 points.

      Insignificant: 0 points, because it really just does not matter on characters... but cannot be taken on a general.

      Lightning reflexes: +40 points, because daaaaaaaaamn that's a good rule (and also the reason people hate elves this edition).

      Magic resistance: +25 per point of magic resistance, to a maximum of MR (3). Simply because sharing MR with the entire unit is incredibly potent and useful, and is part of the default rule.

      Metalshifting: +40 points, because ignoring a character's AS (and in fact using their armor as your to-wound roll) on many enemies will be absolutely lethal... especially vs. combat lords with 1+ saves, or character bunkers with 2+ saves.

      Multiple wounds: Variable depending on how many wounds are caused, as shown below. And yes, this rule is potent enough for monster, character and otherwise murdering that it is insanely expensive.
      -2/d3 wounds: +60 points
      -d3+1 wounds: +80 points
      -d6 wounds: +100 points
      -For every two troop types that are not effected by the rule: - 10 points (to a minimum of 50)
      -If limited to characters: -20 points
      -If limited to general & BSB: -40 points

      Not a Leader: -10 points, this rule prevents many characters who would be awesome at the general duty (such as DE assassins, who have amazing LD) from actually being able to use it as the gods intended. A minor nerf, but a nerf non-the less.

      Otherworldly: +50 points, just for the ward save.

      Pathmaster (x): +60 points, must choose a path upon creation of the character. While technically as good as the arcane item, the path being limited to one specific path upon character creation limits it quite a bit and lowers costs over-all.

      Random attacks (x): Variable points cost (of course).
      -d3+(attack characteristic-2) attacks: +0 points, since this will average about as many attacks as the character will normally get.
      -d6+(attack characteristic-2) attacks: +40 points. While this generates 1.5 attacks over-all, it also is rather swingy.
      -d3+(attack characteristic) attacks: +60 points. Adding an average of 2 attacks to your character is rather nice, m'kay?
      -d6+(attack characteristic) attacks: +80 points. Because an average of 3.5 extra attacks is insane.

      Random movement (2d6): -20 points, infantry only. While it can technically be better than most normal character's movement value, it can also be far worse, and prevents all marching.

      Regeneration (x): Check the prices of magic items that provide an equivalent save.

      Stomp +1: +20 points, but this rule may only be modified, it cannot be added to models that do not innately possess a stomp attack.

      Stupidity: -20 points, because being stupid sucks, m'kay? Staying inside of a general/ BSB's bubble is helpful, but does not overcome every downside, and also restricts the mobility of the creature with this rule.

      Terror: +40 points. It's like fear, but just a little bit better.

      War platform: +60 points, chariots and ridden monsters only. Because being able to protect particular high-priority cannonball targets and giving chariots the ability to march is sort of huge.

      Ward save: Again, check the item pricing of the ward save you wish to apply.

      Unique abilities
      Now then, these are the abilities that, once again, are going to have to have a little bit of work. Most of these tips and guidelines will be very similar to creating magical items, to the point where I am going to import them from said guidelines into this section... albeit with a key difference or two on the restrictions section that will be in bold.

      While each special rule will be unique and bring its own costs for abilities (the effects of which will have to be ball-parked until they have been properly play-tested), certain limitations and the most over-arching special rules can be given a general base cost. Note that specific effects will still have to be paid for as seems balanced, but this should give you a (hopefully somewhat decent) starting point for the special rule's effect.
      -If the rule is limited to one stage of a turn, either magic, shooting or CC: 10 points base
      -If the rule benefits in any two phases: +30 points
      -If the rule has no limits on range or stage, i.e. a rule that affects a unit anywhere on the board for one game turn: +40 points
      -If the effect is triggered, but hits or grants benefits automatically (such as always deals d3 S3 hits to models in base contact at the start of CC, or always raises d3 wounds lost in its unit): +30 points for the reliability, the effect still has to be paid for as is balanced.
      -If the effect improves an existing character ractial trait (such as a vampiric roll or killer instinct): +10 points per step the trait is improved.
      -If the special rule affects a unit other than the one that the character is part of, and that unit does not have to be in base contact with the character (such as a VC Shrieking Horror's scream): +10 points.
      --If the rule only affects one unit, then based on its range increase the price further by: +10 points for every 6", to a maximum of +40 at 24".
      --If the rule is an Aura, then based on the range increase its price further by: +30 points for every 6", to a maximum of +90 at 18".
      --If the ability can be used in other player's turns (i.e. it is an ability that actively targets a unit and can be re-targeted every turn during one phase or another): +20 points
      -If the effect activates on a dice roll (not like modifying/ rerolling attack rolls or wound rolls, but getting benefit from the effect at all, such as rolling an attack or making an initiative test): -10 points (to a minimum of 10 points)
      -If the effects require a specific, somewhat rare or otherwise limited, trigger (like the bearer generating a miscast, being hit in CC or dealing wounds in CC): -10 points (to a minimum of 10 points)
      -If the ability is one-use only: -20 points (to a minimum of 10)

      Similarly, here are some things you should not do/ limitations on items designed here.
      -Any hits caused by things other than attacks made directly by the model (for instance retaliatory hits/ wounds) should never be higher than either the model's base strength or 5, whichever is lower.
      -Unique special rules, while they can be limited to a character or their unit, can also have a few different ranges. While these ranges can be variable, it should be noted that the ranges of these abilities, whether they are beneficial or harmful, should be limited in range and over-all power.
      -Damage and healing abilities should never be activated during an opposing player's turn, unless it affects models in base contact in the CC phase (think the WHFB 8th edition medusa stare).
      -((More to be added based on commentary))

      Alternately, you can make an ability that a specific unit pays for per model to upgrade to.

      This method is less of a character upgrading extravaganza, and more of a means to denote that character's special, elite guards and unique pets. There are a few methods to pay for this type of upgrade:

      1) You can pay for the upgrade up-front on the hero. To do so, determine the cost that you would pay if upgrading each individual model in the unit, and then lower that price by 25% (rounding up). This is the price you will add to your character, and what you pay if you deploy (for example) 50 goblins, or if you deploy 30. Note, the character must be deployed within the unit they are upgrading for the unit to benefit from this. Language for this option:
      -"At the start of the game, choose a unit of (insert modified unit's name here) for this character to join. As long as this character is alive, the unit gains (insert benefits here). The character may not leave this unit until every other model in the unit is destroyed."

      2) You can pay for models upgraded individually, though the upgrade must then be limited in some manner (typically being a 0-2 choice). This method, while a bit more expensive, is more adjustable, saves you points in the character department, and can allow you to upgrade separate units. Language for this option:
      -"If this character is taken, (insert unit name here) can be upgraded with (insert benefits here) for X points. 0-2* choice"
      *Can be 0-1 as well

      3) You can pay for the upgrade a bit more cost-effectively for your character or the unit, but limit how many models can be part of the unit to balance it. To use this method, either pay to upgrade half of a full unit on your character, or pay the same cost as a one-time flat upgrade on the unit. Either way you decide to do this, the upgraded unit is limited to 3/4 of its normal maximum size (rounded down to the nearest 5, or nearest 3 for monstrous infantry/ beasts/ cavalry). The unit must be restricted to one kind of weapon and armor option that is chosen as part of the upgrade (if multiple options are available to the unit), and the character must be deployed with the unit. This method is the cheapest (by far), and you can assign points to either the character or the unit, but it is also the most limiting over-all. Language for this option:
      -"When this character is taken a unit of (insert unit's name here) may gain (insert benefits here) for X points applied to the (character or unit). The unit must be equipped with (insert weapon and armor option here), and may only contain X models."

      Regardless of which method is used, prices for each upgrade per model should be relatively uniform. When it comes to abilities, remember, you are looking to create something that both fits the fluff and actually gives your unit a benefit. If an ability does not fit both of these requirements, then it should be re-examined and re-tooled. Also remember, these are abilities that you want to actually use, so while fluff is good and all, make sure the upgrade is reasonably affordable.

      Now then, on to pricing itself. Upgrades in this category can either directly improve a model's attributes, or they can grant additional extra special rule. Since I introduced them in that order, I'll just start off on pricing with:

      Attribute improvements
      Each of the following prices assumes that you are increasing a given attribute by no more than 1, which is the recommended (arbitrary) limit for boosting.
      Movement: 4 ppm (the character's movement must be the same, and should be adjusted to match the unit's)
      Weapon skill: 2 ppm
      Ballistics skill: 2 ppm
      Strength: 6 ppm (to a maximum of 7)
      Toughness: 6 ppm (to a maximum of 7)
      Wounds: 4 ppm (on solo war beasts, monsters and on monstrous infantry/ cav only)
      Attacks: 4 ppm
      Leadership: 1 ppm (Monsters and solo war beasts only)

      Do note, attribute improvements must be purchased separately on multi-part models such as cavalry and chariots. So if the rider has their weapon skill increased, their mount has to pay to pay for their own weapon skill increase individually. You may choose to only upgrade one part of a multi-part model.

      Special rules
      To save time and effort (again) I'll just do my best to make this as quick and simple as I can. Do note that there are glaring exceptions to these general rules, which I will be going through after the sweeping generalizations are complete.

      Now then, to determine the ppm each special rule is roughly worth you can use the base price of the ability for a hero (arbitrarily chosen instead of the lord just for simplicity's sake) to assign a cost to the unit. Basically:

      -20 points on a hero= -4 ppm
      -10 points on a hero= -2 ppm
      0-10 points on a hero= 0 ppm
      20 points on a hero= +2 ppm
      40 points on a hero= +4 ppm
      60 points on a hero= +6 ppm
      70+ points on a hero= Cannot be used in an upgrade.

      Now then, the rules that are weird and exceptions are as follows:

      Breath weapon: May be purchased only by war beasts with Large Target, monsters, ridden monsters or for the champion model in a monstrous infantry or cavalry command group. Unlike other upgrades, the price of this one is not adjusted based on the type of creature being upgraded. Instead treat this special rule like you were upgrading a character, and just find the costs based on the strength/ AP and added special rules.

      Fight in Extra ranks: This rule is 2 ppm.

      Innate defense: 6+ is 2 ppm, 5+ is 4 ppm, 4+ is 6 ppm and 3+ is 8 ppm. 3+ and 4+ may only be purchased on chariots, monsters, ridden monsters or war beasts with Large Target. If you are improving innate defense on a model that already has it, then calculate the difference in costs between the level you are purchasing and the one already present on the model.

      Magic resistance: MR (1) is 2 ppm, MR (2) is 6 ppm, and MR (3) is 10 ppm. MR (3) may only be purchased by chariots, monsters, ridden monsters, and war beasts with Large Target. If you are improving an already existing MR special rule, then calculate the difference in costs between the level you are purchasing and the one already present on the model.

      Regeneration/ Ward saves: 6+ is 2 ppm, 5+ is 8 ppm and 4+ is 14 ppm. Regeneration/ ward 4+ may only be purchased on chariots, monsters, ridden monsters and war beasts with Large Target. If you are improving a save that the creature already has, then calculate the costs between the level you are purchasing and the one already present on the model.

      Riding a monster that is normally not a mount option: Simply because the idea tickles me so very much. Who hasn't wanted to ride a hydra into battle, after all? For this one, basically either add the monster's base cost (for a hero) or 3/4 of the base cost (for a Lord) and add it to the cost of your character. You may add any upgrade options normally present to the monster to the mount at the same price the monster would normally pay. In all other ways, just treat this like a normal ridden monster mount.

      Unit type multiplier
      With those covered, the final factor to consider is what kind of models you are upgrading. The more powerful the creature, the more expensive it is to give extra new toys, and the more handsomely you are going to pay for it. To make things simpler on everyone involved, upgrade costs are simply multiplied for certain troop types. As a general rule:

      -Cavalry, Infantry, War Beasts: No adjustment necessary.
      -Monstrous Infantry, Swarms, War Beasts with Large Target: Multiply the upgrade cost by 3.
      -Chariots, Monstrous Cavalry, War Machines: Multiply the upgrade cost by 5.
      -Monsters, Ridden Monsters: Multiply the upgrade cost by 10.

      Prices will be adjusted in the future based on feedback, but this is the 1.0 general guideline.


      To give an example of how this might work, let's make an ability that upgrades a group of Sylvan Elf Kestrel Knights.

      First, pick out the manner you wish to pay for the upgrade. Since it's the most complex method, we'll be making the upgrade using the third method, simultaneously limiting us to 4 models in the unit (maximum), and forcing us to choose their load-out before going any farther (and also forcing us to put our lord on a great eagle so that he can join the unit, but that would be covered elsewhere).

      For the purpose of this example, let's say that we are trying to make these eagles more survival-focused than they are now, as if they were the armored guard of their commanding lord. So these Kestrel Knights must have the Shield upgrade (an extra 4 ppm) to qualify for this upgrade.

      Next, let's choose what we want to add to these kestrels. Since there are two model parts, attribute improvements must be purchased for both the rider and the mount separately. So let's say we are going for a more heavy shock-trooper feeling attributes wise. We'll use this point to upgrade the Eagle's wound characteristic by 1 for 4 points, bringing them to a total of 3 wounds over-all. After that, we'll also improve this group's mount's protection to 5+ for 2 more points, bringing us to a total of 6 points per model (before multiplication from creature type is brought in).

      Finally, we figure out what the actual cost points-wise of this upgrade is. Since we are upgrading monstrous cavalry, we will multiply the 6 points we had before by 5, bringing us to 30 ppm. Next, since we chose upgrade option #3, we have to figure out how expensive this would be for half of a regular maximum-sized group. Note that the restriction on the maximum size of the group is ignored for this step, since otherwise this would just be incredibly cheep and the go-to option for this style of upgrade. Since 6 models is the regular maximum, this gives us the following equation: (6 x 30)/2, or 90 points. This point value can be added to the character's costs or just paid as a one-time cost to upgrade the Kestrel Knights unit. Either way, we have determined the final cost.

      Slap a name like "Ironwood Raptors" on the upgrade to give a squad or platoon name to these guys, and you've got yourself a finished upgrade!

      Continuing on with Rektish, we have 3 upgrades that we can give him. Given his theme (spite and hate-filled barrow king) we can pretty easily give him Hatred, so that's 30 points by itself. Next, since this guy was supposed to be an elf, we will add Lightning Reflexes, which is 40 points. Additionally, since this guy is supposed to be a king and all, we will pay an additional 10 points to remove the Not a Leader special rule from him, allowing this barrow king to be the general if so desired (especially since VC generals no longer need to be wizards, so hah).

      Finally, we will give him a command group. This unit that serves under Rektish will be a group of barrow guard that represent the dread elven tower guard who fell in the last days of the Black Tower, and we'll give them the following upgrade (using option #3):

      Scions of the Black Tower
      When this character is taken a unit of Barrow Guard may become Scions of the Black Tower and gain Lightning Reflexes, +1 Weapon Skill and +1 Initiative for 160 points. This cost is applied to the unit. The unit must be equipped with halberds, and may only contain 30 models at most.

      The reason why this upgrade is 160 ppm is that the method #3 for creating abilities takes the cost of upgrading a unit of barrow guard with every possibly model (40 x 8 = 320) and divides it by 2. It also allows you to choose which part will pay for the upgrade, and I chose the barrow guard unit just to save points on my character section.

      With all of these upgrades tallied in, Rektish himself costs a grand total of 380 points, and can optionally make a unit of barrow guard cost 160 more points for a bit more killing power. And, seeing as we didn't give him a mount, our example Barrow King is finished! Hurrah. So now we move on to the last few notes and the wrap up, along with Rektish's final stat block...

      The post was edited 12 times, last by Gnomes2169 ().

    • Ahhh, and finally we come to the end of this long, rambling and entirely unnecessary system... And we just have one thing left to touch upon! And I'm certain you've guessed it by now, but it is character mounts!

      Unique Mount/ companion Guidelines
      Sometimes a character just isn't complete by themselves, but it doesn't make sense to give them an entire brick of elite guards. When this happens,we fortunately have a way to model a faithful companion in the form of mounts and war beasts. Whether your ridden raptor has a cool, cunning intellect, or your elder tree father is always accompanied by a swarm of crystalline butterflies, the following steps can be taken to model this.

      Character mounts you can treat as a secondary character that takes up the same space and wounds/ toughness characteristic. So if you wished to increase their attributes, you should pay for them as if they were characters in and of themselves. Though do remember, these mounts will share their Leadership, Toughness and Wounds characteristics with their rider and use the better of the two, so if the rider would not benefit from the mount being improved in these attributes, do not bother spending points increasing them. Now, while mounts might be relatively analagous to characters in this regard, there are a few key differences between them and their riders.

      1) A mount's maximum attribute modifications are determined by its creature type, not by the level of lord that is riding it. As a general guideline:
      -Chariots do not get any attribute improvements.
      -Cavalry can have up to 2 attribute improvements.
      -Monstrous cavalry can have up to 3 attribute improvements.
      -Ridden Monsters can have up to 4 attribute improvements.
      Remember that certain attributes have limits on how much they can be improved, and certain ability levels are limited to specific creature types.

      2) If you wish to give your mount a new special rule, then you must count the special rule granted to the mount against the 3 special rules you can grant your character. While they are technically separate characters, they are still part of the same model and adding too many special rules is still confusing.

      3) While a character might have multiple mount options (see below), a special mount may only ever belong to one character. As part of this rule, while a character might be deployed without their mount, that mount may never be deployed without their character.

      4) A character may possess multiple mount options (take Karl Franz from 8th edition WHFB for instance), but they may only ever be deployed with one mount in any particular game. Treat all mounts as upgrades, and either make the upgrade optional (giving the character the option to be infantry) or mandatory (forcing the character to be mounted on one of their options). A character may only have 1 unique mount option, regardless of how many mounts they can purchase.

      This section is for a different kind of ally. While mounts and bodyguards are good, sometimes your Demon Lord is instead surrounded by a swarm of imps, or your goblin king leads around a gnasher they've cultivated and raised since birth. While they might not ride these allies, they are a presence on the battlefield just like any other, and these "companion" creatures never leave their master's side.

      Companions are similar to mounts in many ways, including sharing the same wound pool and using the better toughness between the models, but there are a few key differences. First, these companions use the character's movement characteristic instead of their own. Next, these creatures don't start with a wound characteristic. Instead, any wounds purchased for these companions count as upgrading the wound attribute of the character and will be priced as such. Finally, these companions share the same footprint as their character, though sometimes they must increase the character's base size to fit it (to a maximum base size of 100x150). This can change the model's base size by quite a lot, and also changes their creature type to that of their companion if the base is swapped out! All attacks directed at the companions are treated as if they were directed at the character.

      Companions can come in all different numbers, shapes and sizes, and each of them has a different stat line to go with them. While imitating a creature that already exists is the easiest way to go about modeling these creatures (both physically and statistically) you should not feel like you are forced to use pre-existing creatures as your base. After all, I don't believe there are imps or butterflies made of glass in this game (or at least, not yet), so those would have been silly examples to make if they couldn't be chosen, now wouldn't they? :P You also should not feel like you are forced to make beasts or magical beings for this section; a pair of retainers or squire works just as well as companions as a swarm of bats, after all.

      Companion types and numbers
      Companions can come in a variety of types, from beasts to vermin swarms to a pair of of bodyguards that follow their charge about. Depending on what you choose, your companion(or companions) will have different attribute bases. Any attacks, strength or wounds listed in these entries is included in the base cost. Characters on a Ridden Monster cannot have companions.
      -Infantry: 1 attack per model, comes with 2 models that share the same statistics. Weapon skill and strength 2 base. Maximum of 2 models per character. Can only be attached to a infantry, monstrous infantry, or monster character. If added to an infantry character, increase the character's frontage by 20 or 25 (matches character's base if possible) for each companion (to a maximum frontage of 60x20 or 75x25). +10 points.
      -Cavalry: 1 attack on rider, and 1 attack on mount, both mount and rider start with 2 weapon skill and strength. Can only be attached to a cavalry, monstrous beast, monstrous cavalry or monster character. If attached to a cavalry character, increase the frontage by 25 (to a maximum frontage of 50x50. +10 points.
      -War beast: 2 attacks, weapon skill 2 and strength 3 base. If added to an infantry character or model, the full character's base becomes 40x40. If added to a cavalry model, the full character's base becomes 50x50. Creature type is not changed if the base is increased. +10 points.
      -Swarm: 4 attacks, maximum 4 WS and 3 Strength. Weapon skill and strength 1 base. If put on an infantry or cavalry character, that character gains a 40x40 base and their creature type is changed to swarm. +20 points.

      -Monstrous infantry: 3 attacks, weapon skill 2 and strength 4 base. Can only be attached to an infantry or monstrous infantry character. If attached to an infantry character, that character gains a 40x40 base and becomes monstrous infantry. If attached to a monstrous infantry character, increase that character's frontage by 40mm (to a maximum of 80x40). +70 points.
      -Monstrous beast: 4 attacks, weapon skill 2 and strength 4 base, increases character's wounds characteristic by 1 automatically (to a maximum of 6). If attached to an infantry or cavalry character, increase that character's base size to one of the following: 50x75 or 50x100, and change their creature type to monstrous beast. If attached to a monstrous beast, monstrous cavalry, monstrous infantry or monster character, increase that character's base to 100x100.

      -Monstrous cavalry/ monster/ ridden monster/ war machine: Cannot be purchased for these purposes.

      Companion attribute costs
      Companions, while they offer a character more power and options, are not characters in and of themselves. Therefor, they will have their own charts denoting their costs and abilities. Remember, all upgrade costs are cumulative, and the only really relevant attributes to look at (not already covered by companion creature type) are Weapon skill, Strength and Initiative, as they are the only attributes that the companion does not share with the character. All companions must share the same characteristics, and each pay for their own stat blocks (except for infantry, both of their possible companion models are paid for together, and their costs are never multiplied). If a companion is mounted, then rider and mount must be built and paid for separately.

      Weapon Skill:
      -1: free
      -2: +4 points
      -3: +6 points
      -4: +10 points
      -5: +20 points

      -1: Free
      -2: +5 points
      -3: +15 points
      -4: +20 points
      -5: +30 points (monstrous beasts and monstrous infantry only)
      -6: +40 points (monstrous beasts only)

      -1-2: Free
      -3: +6 points
      -4: +10 points
      -5: +20 points

      Companion equipment and special rules
      Companions always wield mundane equipment, and always share special rules that their associated character grants to "all model parts." However, certain special rules can be purchased for companions, and which mundane weapons they wield may be different from what their masters posses!

      Equipment (infantry, monstrous infantry and riders for cavalry and monstrous cavalry only)
      Once more, we have a section where monsters and general infantry get different benefits from the upgrades. However... This is already covered by the base cost of adding monstrous creatures as companions! So hey, gotcha, nothing to worry about here.
      -Hand weapon: Free
      -Spear: +5 points
      -Halberd: +10 points (unlike normal, this weapon increases strength with absolutely no downsides since attacks against companions are directed at the character).
      -Paired weapons: +15 points (extra attacks and initiative to make them in helps the companion do exactly what it is supposed to do... Add more attacks to help out the hero).
      -Great weapon: +20 points
      -Flail: +20 points (again, this weapon is potent when you don't suffer any downsides)
      -Light lance: +5 points, cavalry riders only.
      -Lance: +10 points, cavalry riders only.

      Companions are not meant to provide ranged support, so they cannot purchase ranged options.

      Special rules
      Companions are limited in what special rules they can take. To be exact about it, here is the list;
      -AP (1): +5 points
      -Divine attacks: +5 points
      -Flaming attacks: +5 points
      -Lightning attacks: +5 points
      -Magical attacks: +3 points
      -Poisoned attacks: +10 points, or +20 points if a model has 3 or more attacks.

      Now, since Rektish just doesn't HAVE a mount, and he doesn't have a small group of hyper-specialized guards that accompany him, we can skip this section for him and close up with one or two parting thoughts and the final, completed stat block for this barrow king.

      Parting thoughts

      Your characters might seem to be very, very expensive if you try to deck them out in literally every way possible. In fact, it might feel like you are trying to make a new Malekith or Nagash if you go a little overboard. Remember though, this is not supposed to be a character with infinite resources, and 8th edition is behind us now. So if your characters seem to be on the expensive side, here are a few tips on how to save costs:

      1) Tone your brain child down. The most expensive special rules tend to have multiple stages, and giving a warlord multiple wounds (2; monstrous infantry, monstrous cavalry, monsters, ridden monsters, swarms) instead of multiple wounds (d6; everything) is not only perfectly alright, but recommended!

      2) Give your character small point breaks on the "generic" options that are core to the character. Use this option only if you are converting a pre-existing character from a different game (say, you are converting some rather hefty price-tag characters from 8th edition), run out of things to cut down on option #1, and only after talking to (and getting other players to agree with) the idea of lowering the base price. For example, Malus Darkblade back in 8th edition whfb comes with his mount Spite. It is so intrinsic to the character that to field either of them alone is unthinkable, and Spite is therefore what should be looked at getting a small price reduction (10 points at most). While this will only whittle away small parts of the problem, if a character is that expensive in the first place they probably deserve to stay about that pricey.
      2a) As a quick aside, you can discount general options quite a bit more if one of your unique rules reduces the relevence of that rule. To continue our example from before, if you wanted to say Malus Darkblade is a Beastmaster in this system (Dread elf Prince and Captain upgrade option), but also port the special rule that Spite negates the penalties of stupidity on any Dread Knight unit that Malus joins, then a good half of the Beast Master upgrade is made obsolete, meaning that it should probably get a substantial price reduction on this character (15-30 points or so).

      3) If the character is mounted, change it so that the mount is an optional upgrade instead of intrinsically part of the character itself. Depending on the mount, this could be a way to massively improve the likelyhood of deploying the character you took time to create.

      Rektish's final stat block
      Having reached the end of this long, entirely too in-depth analysis of this creation proccess, here is what a finished "product" should look like:

      Rektish, King of the Black Tower
      Point cost: 380
      Base model: Barrow king
      Character "level": Hero


      *From plate of Swift Vengeance

      Grief sower: Magical weapon, halberd. The bearer of this weapon has +2 strength, instead of the +1 of a normal halberd.

      Plate of Swift Vengeance: Magical armor, Plate armor. When the wearer of this armor is dealt an unsaved wound in close combat, they may immediately make a single attack against the model that injured them for every wound that model deals. These attacks are resolved at the current initiative step. In addition, while wearing this armor Rektish gains an additional wound (bringing him to a total of 4).

      Special rules
      Base: Lethal strike, magic attacks, multiple wounds (2, infantry, cavalry, war beasts)
      New "basic" rules: Hatred, Lightning Reflexes
      Unique rule: Scions of the Black Tower
      When this character is taken a unit of Barrow Guard may become Scions of the Black Tower and gain Lightning Reflexes, +1 Weapon Skill and +1 Initiative for 160 points. This cost is applied to the unit. The unit must be equipped with halberds, and may only contain 30 models at most.

      The post was edited 7 times, last by Gnomes2169 ().

    • Let try out the system for everybody favour brewer bugman

      Starting with Dwarf Thane

      M WS BS S T W I A Ld
      3 6 4 4 5 2 3 3 9

      Armour:Plate ArmourDwarf Special Rules:Sturdy, Relentless, Shield Wall
      Cost 70pts

      Step 1

      Looking at 8th rulebook he has a shield and crossbow as his basic equipment.

      Buying shield and crossbow for 8 points each

      Step 2

      Bugman gains +1 BS and +1int over the standard thane. +10 points
      96 points

      Step 3: Magical Items

      Bugman has two magic item.

      Ol'Trustworthy and Bugman's Tankard

      Ol'Trustworthy cost 35 per dwarf runes, Rune of Might and Rune of Fury. +1 Strength, +1 Attack

      Bugman's Tankard I says is 15 points
      Enchanted Item. Bugman or a single model in the same unit can drink from Bugman's Tankard at the same of any friendly turn. The imbiber immediately recovers D3 Wounds, but cannot surpass his Wounds characteristic.

      Add Rune of Kinship for Scout. 10 points

      156 points

      Special Rules

      Not charge points for Bugman's Rangers as the cost is born by the unit.
      Replace Liquid Fortification and Stout Courage with Stubborn.

      +40 points

      196 points ( It think that he may too many points)


      M WS BS S T W I A Ld
      3 6 5 5 5 2 4 4 9

      Armour: Plate Armour
      Special Rules: Scout, Ambush, Bugman Rangers, Stubborn.
      Dwarf Special Rules: Sturdy, Relentless, Shield Wall

      Ol'Trustworthy: Rune of Might and Rune of Fury. +1 Strength, +1 Attack (Including in stats above)

      Bugman's Tankard.
      Enchanted Item. Bugman or a single model in the same unit can drink from Bugman's Tankard at the same of any friendly turn. The imbiber immediately recovers D3 Wounds, but cannot surpass his Wounds characteristic.

      Bugman;s Rangers: Any amry that includes Bugman can upgrade a single unit of Rangers to be Bugman Rangers. If this is done must jion the unit and cannot leave it. Bugman's Rangers have WS5, BS4 amd S4 and cost as additional +3 points per model.
      Balance is not easy, but it's vital.
    • simonbromley wrote:

      Bugman's Tankard I says is 15 points
      Enchanted Item. Bugman or a single model in the same unit can drink from Bugman's Tankard at the same of any friendly turn. The imbiber immediately recovers D3 Wounds, but cannot surpass his Wounds characteristic.
      Such an item OuO is 25 pts just for the character having it. Being able to use it every turn and on other characters increases the cost to at least 100. We are talking of restoring between 1 and 3 wounds that each costs at 35 pts minimum.

      In the 9th age costing such an item would probably only be available to Dwarf Kings due to the cost and even then it is questionalbe.

      Background Team

      Conceptual Design

      Rules Advisors

      The Saucy Quill Inn - First Batch of info from the Survey - 1886/95
    • ... Oh dear, people are starting to post before I'm even finished! ... But oh well, I'm mostly finished I suppose, seeing as all that's left to cover are unique abilities and mounts, and also wrap up what Rektish will look like in the end. Feel free to start making some people in the meantime! :D
    • At long last, the mounts, companions, final suggestions and final version of Rektish are done! Praise me, PRAISE ME!!!!

      Also go ahead and tear me apart, because I know there must be something I missed/ priced improperly, and feedback is the fastest way to fix all of that.
    • AWESOME!

      Let's see my incarnation of

      Frederick the Great

      Frederick was a very pious and religious man during his lifetime. Some say he was blessed by Ullor him(her?)self during his lifetime.
      Rumours say he could also wrestle a bear and emerge victorious...


      Preacher 65 points


      Heavy armour, Blessings, Channel, Divine Attacks



      [+1LD, +1S, +1A]
      So 10 + 15 + 5 = 30 extra
      65 + 25 = 95 points so far.

      Blessed Armour:
      Type: Plate Armour.
      Grant's Frederick a 1+ armour save. [35 points]
      Frederick also benefits from ward save 5+ when in close combat.
      If fighting enemies with magical attacks this ward is improved to 4+.
      [50 points for 4+ ward, only works in CC so lets say -10, 4+ only against magical attacks so -5 points for that.]


      Frederick fights with Sacred Hammers.
      Sacred Hammers:
      Type: Paired weapons. [No need for shield here, so lets say 10 points for these]
      If Frederick is fighting an enemy with any of the following:
      - Otherworldly
      - Any mark of Chaos [ogres can take these without being otherworldly/daemonic]
      - Ethereal
      - Undead
      - Vampiric
      He gains Eternal Hatred [Hatred that allows rerolls every round, this is for Frederick and ONLY for him] and may reroll rolls of 1 to wound.

      10 for paired weapons
      Works against about 6 armies (Daemon Legions, Warriors of the Dark Gods, Ogre Khans [rarely], Sylvan Elves [some otherworldly], Undying Dynasties and Vampire Covenant) so let's say +30 points. [Reroll to wound about 10 from Blessed Sword, reroll to hit is better so 20 for that, 10 to reroll 1s].

      40 points for his hammers

      Frederick also has the special rule
      Not a Leader (-10 points)
      He was a man many men looked up to and he was seen as a champion of the gods. But he was no general or captain, he had no experience truly leading a regiment, let alone an entire army.

      So we end up with:

      Frederick The Great


      Blessings, Channel, Divine Attacks, Not a Leader

      Blessed Armour:
      1+ armour save. 5+ ward save in close combat.
      Ward save improved to 4+ against magical attacks.

      Sacred Hammers:
      Paired Weapons.
      Frederick gains Eternal Hatred and rerolls rolls of 1 to wound against enemies with any of the following:
      - Otherworldly
      - Any mark of Chaos
      - Ethereal
      - Undead
      - Vampiric

      Totaling 205 points.
      Seems pretty good to me. Might be too cheap :D
      Frederick's armour might be blessed by the same thing that gives KoE their blessing ward saves? Or maybe by Frederick's own gods? Who knows...
      Frederick's armour comes with a ward save compared to Blessed Armour of Frederick the Great which is only a 1+ save because Frederick's armour has lost some it's magic over the many years but it still provides the wearer with excellent physical defense.
      Frederick could also be a brave captain with a great weapon but I'll leave that to someone else :light:
      ALL PROBLEMS can be solved with more Knights of the Sun Griffon. :saint:

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Jomppexx ().

    • Looks about right for Fred... however, not sure where you are getting 1+ armor to be 35 points. Mithril Mail is 35 and gives a 2+ save that cannot be improved by any means, so that would be the closest thing there. And he's a Lord choice? I could have sworn that all "preachers" were just Heroes, which would make his "Not a leader" go to only -5 (on a LORD it's -10).
    • Gnomes2169 wrote:

      Looks about right for Fred... however, not sure where you are getting 1+ armor to be 35 points. Mithril Mail is 35 and gives a 2+ save that cannot be improved by any means, so that would be the closest thing there. And he's a Lord choice? I could have sworn that all "preachers" were just Heroes, which would make his "Not a leader" go to only -5 (on a LORD it's -10).
      Empire of Sonnstahl has 'Blessed Armour of Frederick the Great'.
      For 35 points it gives a 1+ armour save.
      And yes, he is a hero. But I thought Not a leader should go by LD. If below 8 or less it's -5 if 9 or more it's -10. Changes the outcome by 5 points so not such a huge deal.
      ALL PROBLEMS can be solved with more Knights of the Sun Griffon. :saint:
    • Jomppexx wrote:

      Gnomes2169 wrote:

      Looks about right for Fred... however, not sure where you are getting 1+ armor to be 35 points. Mithril Mail is 35 and gives a 2+ save that cannot be improved by any means, so that would be the closest thing there. And he's a Lord choice? I could have sworn that all "preachers" were just Heroes, which would make his "Not a leader" go to only -5 (on a LORD it's -10).
      Empire of Sonnstahl has 'Blessed Armour of Frederick the Great'.For 35 points it gives a 1+ armour save.
      And yes, he is a hero. But I thought Not a leader should go by LD. If below 8 or less it's -5 if 9 or more it's -10. Changes the outcome by 5 points so not such a huge deal.
      True, 5 points isn't all too much, but it's still 5 points and, like other abilities, based on character slot. This thing is long and complex enough in a long and complex rules system... so while it might make sense to base it off of leadership, it would also be unnecessarily complex to do so.

      And huh... I guess I haven't looked at the Empire book recently. Alright then, that does seem legit.

      Lparigi34 wrote:

      Your system looks great, tried to make a PDF for it

      And also made a Character, though I mostly based it on available stuff, nut have also some special rules

      Morg Bellipot of the Foggy Steppes…0Foggy%20Steppes.pdf?dl=0
      Morg looks alright... though question, what do you mean by "wolf chariot unit"? Is that paying for the upgrade to a unit he is joining, or...?
    • Creating named characters (mechanically, at the very least)

      Thanks for the question, will rewrite it to explain better what it is.

      The points is the price of a mount, a special type of chariot that can form units as described below and additionally he becomes Charioteer Leader

      Edit: noticed I made a huge mistake with the Chariot section, have to rethink the whole thing and will repost!!!

      Fixed... I think!

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Lparigi34 ().

    • Ahhhh... so basically, the hero can make and become the unit champion of a chariot unit. Interesting. Maybe that should be a further cost for the chariot upgrade itself, instead of a separate upgrade from his particular wolf chariot?
    • Woops, see I forgot to add Ambush and Armor Piercing to the lust of special rules... Fixed that right up is what I just did!

      Also, still looking for feed-back on anything that seems wrong/ anything confusing that could work a bit better.
    • Thank you very much! And if anyone from the advisory board/ balance board/ executive board watches this and would be interested, I think I would be willing to organize a forum-wide contest using the things from this thread...