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  • ETC lists

    Lagerlof - - The Vermin Swarm (VS)

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    Quote from Warpfodder: “Let’s not forget 50 mngrels with Spears and the beast banner. Built in hatred and 32 S4 ap3 i5 attack’s when charged (1 use) and 32 s3 ap2 i5 the rest of the time. And soooo many wounds to chew through. I’d love that unit in VS! Let alone the fact that they only need 20% core. 490 with FC ” That's a beastly unit indeed.

  • ETC lists

    Lagerlof - - The Vermin Swarm (VS)

    Post

    Quote from The Unmarked: “WDG, OK and OnG (and possibly one or two others depending on matchup) can all take Core units that can carry a battle. ” Are we talking core units alone, or with characters and/or other buffs? I think all armies have core units that with some buffs can hit very hard (except maybe VC, the skeletons are more of a bunker with static res ) Saurus are also very strong core fighters. UD chariots are broken All core troops with GW (ID DH?) A big unit of Realm Knights are prett…

  • Quote from bargo: “Quote from Lagerlof: “We should base everything we do from now on on the "Grandpa test". ” what about the 4 year old test. my daughter thinks ogres are great and nice - she only knows them from my army and Shrek :)rats are cool too, my other army. anything with dragons is good - WDG, HBE, DE, Empire. pretty sure beastmen and lizards are icky ” Are rats evil? Depends on if you are a chef in a disney movie or the europeean population in the 14th century. My rats personally prefe…

  • Quote from Eisenhans: “Quote from Lagerlof: “We should base everything we do from now on on the "Grandpa test". ” In that case you're grandpa at our tournaments, "I don't know let's ask Lagerlof" Congrats to your new nick "Farfar" ” Is granddad OK with us derailing the thread? 18ps27.jpg

  • We should base everything we do from now on on the "Grandpa test".

  • How many Divination Masters were at ETC? What is the worst magic to face with VS lead by a Deamon? I think I played 3 Divination Masters on 6 games, can't say the Deamon felt particulary OP in those games

  • ETC lists

    Lagerlof - - The Vermin Swarm (VS)

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    Quote from AlexCat: “Quote from Lagerlof: “@AlexCat No further arguments needed. ” I dunno what you're on about. Did they find the amount of Disciples in the ETC top10 VS lists healthy? ” Are you serious? Did you read the numbers? Af f*ck this. I'm out. Let me know when the whine has died down and it might be worth to read this thread again

  • ETC lists

    Lagerlof - - The Vermin Swarm (VS)

    Post

    Quote from epoepo: “Btw, i forgot Ukrainian player, this would be the complete table: 1º Germany: 0 disciples, 69 points 2º Spain, 2x8 disciples, 87 points 3º Switzerland: 0 disciples, 64 points 5º Italy: 1x 12 disciples, 45 points 6º Ukraine: 0 disciples, 52 points 8º Australia: 2x14 disciples, 81 points 9º Belgium: 3x12 disciples 51 points 10º Czech Republic, 2x14 disciples and 1x13, 48 points Not very impresive for our new Tier 1 status XD ” How did you find the Disciples during ETC? Would yo…

  • Balance patch

    Lagerlof - - Dread Elves (DE)

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    I think DE is the stronger of the Elves, it's pretty underestimated TBH. Many units just feel slightly too expensive, but it's not much.

  • ETC lists

    Lagerlof - - The Vermin Swarm (VS)

    Post

    Quote from AlexCat: “From my experience, playing for the army makes you anything but objective when it comes to nerfing it.Being biased to one's own army is normal, as long as you realize this. You and oher people here seem to not managing There is an objective (at least in a sense that there will be desicions based on it) data presented by RT and VS are on Tier1. How many price nerfs do you realistically expect if the goal is to get the army into Tier3? You cant say you disagree with RT stateme…

  • ETC lists

    Lagerlof - - The Vermin Swarm (VS)

    Post

    Quote from epoepo: “So, looking at the top 10 of ETC, we will see how overpowered disciples are 1º Germany: 0 disciples, 69 points 2º Spain, 2x8 disciples, 87 points 3º Switzerland: 0 disciples, 64 points 5º Italy: 1x 12 disciples, 45 points 8º Australia: 2x14 disciples, 81 points 9º Belgium: 3x12 disciples 51 points 10º Czech Republic, 2x14 disciples and 1x13, 48 points Now you can continue with the witch hunt guys ” Thanks for closing the case @AlexCat No further arguments needed.

  • ETC lists

    Lagerlof - - The Vermin Swarm (VS)

    Post

    Quote from AlexCat: “ASAW Funny, how lowly vermins receive his Dis9 and then add ranks to get Dis10 without any troubles. You think its fine, I dont. ” Pretty sure the old ASAW are not actually a thing anymore, not 100 % sure though. Also 100 % sure that is you wanna go that way, VS had "LD strenght bubble" which I would argue the Deamon is. Well alot of things don't actually have ranks, so they only get Dis9, which is not at all high. Without a Deamon any Hulks are way too risky, just a bit of …

  • ETC lists

    Lagerlof - - The Vermin Swarm (VS)

    Post

    Quote from AlexCat: “Quote from Lagerlof: “VD is not underpriced, the alternatives are just worse. ” And you say it based on what? I say, he is hugely underpriced. Firstly, compared to other armies similiar units. Secondly - looking at what it brings to the army, how it helps it blatantly ignore the weakness it supposedly should have. ” Supposed to have according to who? It gives a Dis9 general with 18" IP that can't hide in units. How is that so different to many other armies? Some units can't …

  • ETC lists

    Lagerlof - - The Vermin Swarm (VS)

    Post

    Quote from Fnarrr: “Quote from Lagerlof: “Pendulum sure, up it in points. Wheels and catapult should go up without a doubt. I personally feel Giant Rats are slightly too cheap as well. Starting cost for brotherhood should go up, max size should stay unchanged. Jezzails could have a slight bump as well. ” You're looking at a T1 army, so (and this is conservative) you should be looking at those nerfs adding up to about 130 points on average across all competitive lists. ” Is that a real fact or so…

  • ETC lists

    Lagerlof - - The Vermin Swarm (VS)

    Post

    Quote from Fnarrr: “20% has more than 30, which is some arbitrary number for "spam" that a high-end staff member picked. Do you wanna go through and sort the lists into categories? Not taken: 0 Present: 1-10 Used: 11-20 (two units, basically) Spammed: 30+ A healthy spread for a special unit would be something like 45%-30%-20%-5%. Lets see what PD come out at ” As with everything, it's more worth to spam a unit than just taking one of it. Same with almost all entries across all books.

  • ETC lists

    Lagerlof - - The Vermin Swarm (VS)

    Post

    Quote from Fnarrr: “To summarize your comments: - VD, pendulum can't be nerfed because they won't fit in 40% chars - disciples shouldn't be point nerfed because all they do when the opponent has perfect counters to them is soak up damage massively disproportionately to their cost (??) So, what's your personal plan for bringing VS from T1 to T3? +10 points on dreadmills and call it a day? ” VD is not underpriced, the alternatives are just worse. Pendulum sure, up it in points. Wheels and catapult…

  • ETC lists

    Lagerlof - - The Vermin Swarm (VS)

    Post

    Quote from Fnarrr: “ The shooting you are overestimating a lot as well, since crossbows hit on 6s by default. You can ofc give them orders, but then we're not just talking about crossbows on their own. ” TBF no one plays crossbows without Accurate order

  • Quote from The Unmarked: “We have to be careful with grenadier shooting into combat designs since they might end up overlapping with Disciples. ” Grenadiers should be made strong against Infantry blobs instead of few hits high AP. We already have high AP units, Wheels, Deamon, spells, jezzails. Area 2 attacks from shooting would be neat, or causing DT to big units in combat. They would overlap with the Catapult in that case sure, but it would be a mobile and short range.

  • ETC lists

    Lagerlof - - The Vermin Swarm (VS)

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    I'll try them out a couple of games and come back, since you seem so determined to think they are too strong, I've only played against them without much hassle. I have alot more issues with other entries in the book. Let's see if they perform.

  • ETC lists

    Lagerlof - - The Vermin Swarm (VS)

    Post

    Quote from AlexCat: “No, its you - you're hyperboling full throttle. One spell doesnt do much to the 10+ disciples, much less reduces them to a couple of models (even Pyroclastic Flow with Blaze). Most single spells would kill 2-4 models. If there are 2-3 units of 10+ Disciples like in the majority of the VS lists I see from ETC, I dont think 1 spell will be enough. Same can be said about shooting - even 40 accurate shots from xbows would only kill about 6-7 models. Not counting Cover, priority …