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  • You’re probably right. It’s not that spears are too difficult a weapon to use, more that they lack the discipline to get the most from them. Which you can represent through low Dis and frenzy.

  • I can just imagine the conversation before the battle: Boss: “So you boyz with bows go up to the hill and shoot em up a bit and if they get too close give them a good bashing” Bow boyz: “Yes boss” Boss: “You boyz with choppas wait until they’ve been all shot up and then charge in and give them a good crumpin” choppa boyz: “We ain’t waiting too long boss” Boss: “Fine. You boyz with the long pointy choppas get up close right, and then wait with your choppas pointing at the ones on horses until the…

  • Quote from WhammeWhamme: “Spears are literally the simplest weapon in existence: why are we down on them? ” in my mind at least it is because they are a defensive weapon that encourages a style of play that is at odds with the frenzied attack minded nature of feral orcs. I would be quite happy for the option to remain but if we are talking about reducing the number of options in the book this seems the most obvious feral option to go away. On a side note the spear models that I have (gw) still l…

  • Quote from Pellegrim: “So - I think the Frenzy+Battlefocus is Iconic on Feral Orcs and it should remain so. I’m not sure I would say these rules are iconic particularly. I think ferals should be the least controllable type of orcs, and they should have something in combat that ensures that their attack output is higher than that of other types of orc. In that respect frenzy and battle focus work well but if this was achieved in another way I would be equally happy. - I think they need to be able…

  • Quote from oreogolem: “I mean if feral orcs get a sub-focus of being hyper aggressive and "independent" of other dynamics they could have low LD, frenzy and fearless. Maybe even allow them to have 6'' vanguard? I'm not sure if fearless has such a prominent place in the OnG list going forward. As for combat prowess, youthful brute energy giving a short term boost of power, so hatred? I don't necessarily agree they should be charge dependent (except for Boars), but a first turn buff sounds good. I…

  • Rules for Common Orcs ?

    sgu97bjd - - Orcs and Goblins (O&G)

    Post

    Quote from Giladis: “This is how I would envision the three units FERAL ORCS 25 models, may add up to 35 models * Global * Adv * Mar * Dis * * * Model Rules * * 6" * 8" * 6 * * * Fearless, Frenzy * Defensive * HP * Def * Res * Arm * * * * 1 * 2 * 4 * 0 * * * Offensive * Att * Off * Str * AP * Agi * * * 2 * 3 * 3 * 0 * 4 * Born to Fight, Devastating Charge (Battle Focus, Fight in Extra Rank), Primitive Weapons Options: May take a Shield May replace Primite Weapons with Bow (5+) May upgrade one mo…

  • Quote from Giladis: “To match my thoughts from the Orc topic GOBLINS 30 models, may add up to 40 models * Global * Adv * Mar * Dis * * * Model Rules * * 4" * 8" * 5" * * * Insignificant * Defensive * HP * Def * Res * Arm * * * * 1 * 3 * 3 * 0 * * * Offensive * Att * Off * Str * AP * Agi * * * 1 * 2 * 3 * 0 * 3 * Nets Options: Must take one of the following: Gaggle of Mad Gits Gang of Shady Gits Group of Toady Gits May take a Shield May take one of the following: Bow (4+)* Spear May upgrade one m…

  • I know I am am banging my own drum somewhat here but I think the solution is to make the damage output of ferals shorter lived, whilst common orcs have lower damage output overall but sustained for a longer period (as well as the other differences of better armour and greater reliability). This would mean making ferals slightly worse by making at least some of their rules or stats first turn only, or having them lose the BTF bonus quicker, but I believe they would still be good enough to be take…

  • Quote from arwaker: “Keeping things like they are currently is not a reduction of complexity. I highly expect a major redesign to stats and rules to better fit the background. Think from the scratch not from the current book. How should things be. Just forget everything from the past books. Only 4 things count: - What is the general expectation about Orcs playstyle - Age progression concept should be considered in stats/rules - What models are currently in player's collections? - Rules should be…

  • It would depend on how the background is shaping up but could you have ‘tribal orcs’ as the new common orc name? Would only really work if feral orcs haven’t yet developed into social structures like tribes, and iron orcs have grown out of it.

  • Quote from Giladis: “Speaking more seriously pejorative terms might be easier to link together into a thematic whole. For example Feral Orcs > Screamers Common Orcs > Brawlers Iron Orcs > Crushers ” I think there is a danger that naming conventions get too abstract for people to really be able to get an idea of what the unit is without also being emerged in the surrounding fluff for that army. If someone is looking for models for ‘Screamers’ they are going to have to search for either feral orcs…

  • We’ve already got iron orcs so you could link it to the different ages. Stone orcs kind of fits for ferals, but bronze orcs doesn’t quite sound right for common orcs.

  • Quote from Gingersmali: “Quote from sgu97bjd: “Quote from Gingersmali: “People, like my self, have specifically converted/bought models with different appearance/weapons options for different roles, these different roles should be kept IMO. Yes you could still use all your models, but if you Currently have say 40 feral with spear and 40 with pw, after this change unless you now want to run 40+ feral orcs you may as will bin half your models. If you play ID I’m sure you wouldn’t have like the new…

  • Quote from Gingersmali: “People, like my self, have specifically converted/bought models with different appearance/weapons options for different roles, these different roles should be kept IMO. Yes you could still use all your models, but if you Currently have say 40 feral with spear and 40 with pw, after this change unless you now want to run 40+ feral orcs you may as will bin half your models. If you play ID I’m sure you wouldn’t have like the new book if blunderbuses and Flintlock Axes now co…

  • Quote from SlaveToThePyre: “Quote from Pellegrim: “I really hope they keep spears somehow ... just build 30 that I am now painting... :-/ ” That wouldn't be invalidation. Primitive weapons are just any kind of weapons but they are not used properly. Using a spear to gain its in-game benefits requires training and discipline: something Feral/Young Orcs surely lack. I would simply add a designer's note: Primitive weapons: [effect]. Note that this weapon can be represented by any kind of actual wea…

  • Quote from Gingersmali: “Quote from sgu97bjd: “Quote from Gingersmali: “what about: feral- get bonus first round of combat common - first round or steadfast iron - steadfast or stubborn at start of combat ” Something like this yes. Although I think the common and iron orc bonuses should not just be first round. Ferals burn themselves out quickly but common and iron orcs should (IMO) be able to sustain their bonus for longer, maybe with some conditions like being on the winning side. ” Slightly c…

  • Quote from Gingersmali: “what about: feral- get bonus first round of combat common - first round or steadfast iron - steadfast or stubborn at start of combat ” Something like this yes. Although I think the common and iron orc bonuses should not just be first round. Ferals burn themselves out quickly but common and iron orcs should (IMO) be able to sustain their bonus for longer, maybe with some conditions like being on the winning side.

  • I think BTF probably would need to change if orcs and eadbashers get merged. I also think as @arwaker said that there is potential to link this to the lifecycle idea. So young orcs are more frenzied with their attacks but they lack stamina so they cannot maintain their strength for as long. Middle aged orcs are less ferocious but are able to maintain combats for longer. Older ‘iron orcs’ stick around protecting the boss until the end and don’t get tired. Obviously this is just my interpretation …

  • Quote from Chronocide: “Me remembering the rules that apply to other people's armies is just as reasonable as them remembering the rules that apply to my army. If I can remember panic tests, mundane weapons, or unique magic weapons, why can't you remember daemonic manifestations? ” That is definitely not the same thing. Knowing the core rules (including mundane weapons, and special rules) is a reasonable expectation of all players and should not really be part of the complexity tax. Anything in …

  • I think we should be using our complexity budget on having a larger number of units than other books without those units necessarily having lots of special rules. Goblins need more complexity than orcs due to their sneaky nature and the fact that this means that they bypass some core rules. This includes the various kinds of ‘gits’ and GWT which whilst in need of some simplification are perfect examples of goblin complexity which is needed. it would also be nice if our characters had a bit more …