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The latest issue of the 9th Scroll is available! You can read all about it in the news.

  • If nothing substantial happens this 'patch', I predict 3 or fewer UD at ETC2021. We don't ask to be the strongest, but fun would be a nice starting point.

  • Quote from Slayer Zabojcow: “DL got 5++ for free?? Wow great! If this protection is free then I think their units are a little bit overpriced ” Equally overpriced as UD troops are due to the healing. EDIT: with that exception DL is considered a tier 1 army and UD somewhere between the very bottom and mid-bottom?

  • ^Zwei is correct. I predict a good solution in about 4 years when we get our LAB?

  • UD tournaments 2.2

    IHDarklord - - Undying Dynasties (UD)


    It seems like a highly stable list you brought. How did the team use you during the pairing process?

  • I wholeheartedly agree! The Fall-update should only be point changes. No exceptions to that. Except maybe the changes during the previous Fall-updates, 'cause they already made an exception for that rule ofcours.

  • I agree somewhat, problem is we won't get any of those changes now :). Maybe if they get cheap enough, it doesn't matter too much they're glass cannon? For NG specifically, I'd like to see: - Min unit to 20 - Ress value to 4 - Shields base (or point decrease, but I think having base shields is probably less good, so easier to justify)

  • If only going by point costs: Things that could go down, in ranking of 'importance' - Necroguard additional models (~2ppm/~1ppm and cheaper weapon options) - Pharaoh (~20 points) - Core additional models (~1ppm, chariots ~10ppm) - Battle Sphinx (~30 points) - Sacred Hourglass (~20 points) - Dread Sphinx (~10 points) - Charnel Catapult (~10 points) - Book of the Dead (~10 points) - Tomb Reapers additional models (~20 ppm) - Tomb Harbinger (~15 points) Things that could go up, same ranking of 'imp…

  • By this time next year, there will be no UD players left in major tournaments. Which is good! Averages will show a clean 10-10 score for the non-played army!

  • Quote from Just_Flo: “So once again, where on the powerscale would UD need to stand for you to accept only minor changes and do you accept only the result of a poll of UD/ETC/random players or a data analyse involving all places or a combination of all of it for assigning a place to UD? ” Minor changes would require slightly below half on army level. I don't have a choice but to accept what is decided, whether I'll be happy with it is something else entirely. Quote from Just_Flo: “So would 30 pl…

  • I honestly just wondered if you were trolling, or honestly wanted to achieve something. Hypothesis are tested and tried, usually by talking with highly competitive people. I am not angry (I don't easely get angry), disappointed maybe a bit? Not in you personally, I don't know you personally so that would be weird. More disappointed that the same discussion has to go on for pages on pages when we basically had the same last year. If I took a poll among the top 200 players of the world right now a…

  • You've been asking a lot of questions. Allow me to ask one back: are you trolling?

  • Quote from Just_Flo: “ I could look it up, if the % of UD was higher or lower than now before the 2 seasons of UD being seen as very powerfull, but again participation is not a balancing criteria. A balancing patch patches as the word says the balance. ” Strange, I recall the presence of the UD armies in last year's tournaments was one of the reasons for the triple nerf. Then again, the project might have evolved since then. Or devolved, depends how you want to look at it.

  • An increase in powerlevel would be cool, but that's not what this community is asking for really. And I'm not only talking about UD when I say that. If every book is fun to play and near balanced (which we are close to now), nobody has any reason to complain :). I believe for UD, making the book more fun to play with, means cutting needless rules. The H reversion is the prime example. But something else would be the Hierophant rule. Needless and needlesly complicated things that make the army le…

  • I don't have a conclusive answer to that as I don't check the entire spectrum of armies. I assume you guys have a better view of that? My gut would tell me UD would belong to bottom 3 right now. Somewhere near DH, EoS, SE? With WDG, VS, DL being the top and KOE, OK, OnG, HbE being in the top half. Again, I don't have any proof of this, pure gut feeling.

  • That's a lot of technical questions :O, I'm in no way a mathematician. My gut tells me an ample number of games to determine results with would be: (total number of results)/(amount of armies) Every army below that score should probably get a % bonus equally big to the difference? Let's say results show a decrease of 10 points on a model is perfect, but said model's army is taken 10% less than average. The decrease could change to 11 points to make up for that. Now, as much as I believe in facts…

  • Another way to go about it, would be to increase certain unit's ressurection values. But I think that's even more difficult to achieve than to change the H back to its original state. I do fear, if there would be point drops for units with less than optimal ress values already (like NG), we may see armies with a very low amount of magic. Which is fine in essence, but not the army I would like to play .

  • I agree! And I applaud that idea! But that was also the same last update, when they did opt to change the H. Which was clearly a bad idea, points alone would have been enough. So reverting this change seems like it could be ok to me :). (certainly because I would advocate not changing anything else, save maybe extra NG models)

  • And that will continue, seems relatively logical that an underrepresented army would score higher or lower than expectations due to exactly being underrepresented. The average score per army is only valuable if there's enough battles to make averages. Otherwise, it's a small collection of any number of outliers. EDIT: Not saying the average score shouldn't be taken into account, just that armies that are not so prevelant should probably get a small extra?

  • Surely, not only the average score is taken into account, but also the presence on the battlefield? You can't tell me that VS/WDG/DL will be buffed/nerfed the same way UD would be purely based on averages through played games?

  • Option 1: keep the H as it is, apply a ~10% discount to all extra models of all units (and pharaoh) Option2: revert H to previous state, apply no discounts I prefer option 2, but that's just because it would make the game smoother.