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  • Some UD silliness I've been playing with (Hidden Content) (Hidden Content) (Usual caveats... spitballing stage, don't trust my points/maths/legality etc etc )

  • (not commenting in staff role) Quote from RobertR: “... Powercreep, big differences between tiers, some entries being almost unplayable outside fluffgames and so on. ... ” Just a sidenote: the arguments of your post aside, your post only addresses some (balance related) aspects of a generalised concept of "fair play". Not saying you are right or wrong on anything you say, I just wanted to be clear that what I was talking about goes beyond just these balance issues. E.g. some (far from all) "peak…

  • Quote from Casp: “Actually i feel like the rules are often written to take care of dishonest player. ” You are assuming malice where none needs to exist. Ambiguity breeds problems, and doesn't require dishonesty for these problems to manifest. This is part of the fairness I addressed in the rest of my post. You may never have experienced these problems... but that just links back to the playerbase dichotomy I discuss above... people who have never encountered certain problems will always feel th…

  • (not commenting in staff role) General comment that is tangentially related to this thread: Having spent some time observing some of the RT level and higher discussions internally, I have reached the conclusion that the key unarticulated tenet of t9a is not tournament play, or balance for its own sake, or any of the other myriad things people claim it to be. The key tenet driving a lot of t9a directions/choices is actually "fair play", in a particular set of senses, covering things like: rules c…

  • (not commenting in staff role) Quote from Davian: “Yes. This is true. And this is why new LAB in T9A should avoid adding new special rules in the game instead of using those in the BrB. Because otherwise powercreep will enter the game. ” Point of clarity: What you are talking about is eliteness creep (individual game elements becoming more impactful in a manner measured independently of points) or complexity creep. Balance, both external (in the sense of 4500pt lists from different books having …

  • Heavy Infantry

    DanT - - Empire of Sonnstahl (EoS)

    Post

    (not commenting in staff role) Great to hear you are starting EoS! Depends what you mean by "better", what else you have in the list, what units you are trying to beat, how you expect your list to work together... etc etc. The best thing is to try both for yourself and see what you find. From my side, I favour big blocks (37-40) of halberds (usually, but not always, deployed in line formation (8 wide)), as they are pretty combat efficient for their price, able to do a fair bit of damage, and eas…

  • (not commenting in staff role) (Hidden Content) But I think we are truly off topic for this thread now Edit: Actually, since layered special rules have come up a few times, can people start compiling a list of them please? The project removed many layered rules during the 2.0 process, but maybe there are patterns in how they are coming back that we can examine.

  • Quote from jirga: “...Also their war of the ring mass battle lotr game looked like a good ruleset too. Apparently there were some glitches though which made playing without house rules almost impossible. ” By GW standards the WotR rulebook was really good, considering there was only 1 edition ever. Some wrong points costs, and some bent combinations because army selection was so free, but generally I think it is one of the best constructed "first edition"s of any game. *stares into the corner of…

  • (not commenting in staff role) I was thinking about simplifying movement on my lunchbreak yesterday. I reckon allow everything to move as light troops when not marching. Light troops still get to move like this when marching. Everything else when marching goes straight ahead and is allowed a single wheel. This allows to remove: e.g. (swift) reforms in the movement phase, moving backwards, moving sideways, complicated multi wheel marching... and all the single models without light troops lose a l…

  • (not commenting in staff role) Quote from Bloodgeyser: “@DanT : so you count on slightly lower than average? ” Yes... it is basically a trade-off between casting more reliably and not expending too many resources. The detailed version of the my casting "rules" comes from looking at the sweet spots in the probability distributions, typically these occur when the extra dice required takes the probability of success from below 80% to above 80%. And of course like all such "rules", there are times w…

  • (not commenting in staff role) Quote from Adam: “that is why you should use right amount of dice to cast and have a book of meladys as a safety mechanism. I think @DanT had a magic dice usage guide somewhere ” @Bloodgeyser Simplest version: Imagine you will roll a 3 on the first dice, a 2 on the second, a 3 on the third, and a 2 on the fourth. So e.g. if you need a total of 6-8 on the dice, use 3 dice, use at least 4 dice for 9+ and 2 dice for scores of 5 or less. More details available in my be…

  • (not commenting in staff role) I think it is a non-trivial success for t9a that people are enjoying 3000pt games so much This was not inevitable or obvious given the focus on larger games, so this is definitely something to celebrate, and I think points to an inherent "soundness" of some of the choices and processes chosen by the project. I wish all of you all the best with your ongoing 3k games (My own preferences go the other way; I'm a big fan of ~8000pts, and I think t9a scales nicely to thi…

  • FWIW I played a game at home last night. It took 3 hours from when my opponent arrived to the game ending. That included unpacking models, setting terrain up, some chit-chat because we hadn't seen each other for a while, certainly not breaking our backs to play faster... I guess to some extent my list was reasonably conducive to a sensibly paced game, so here it is for reference if anyone else wants to use it. (Hidden Content) It wasn't a tournament game, so in that sense maybe it is irrelevantn…

  • Quote from Overmind: “I made a thread to at least discuss Scent of Blood in specific (Scent of Blood hurts my head) as I've noted issues with it in my latest games and it seems like it might be worth talking about if others have as well ” Make sure you tag DE ACSs, and get as many of the community to comment as possible, whatever their views. Those things increase the chance that such threads get discussed internally.

  • Can I suggest that people start a new thread in general discussion entitled something like "things in new LABs that are not worth their complexity". Use this to discuss things in LABs that are too complicated and can be removed, and find out for which things there is broad support amongst disparate members of the community. E.g. DE is not gold, so if it can be shown that there is a community consensus against such rules then it is possible to change them

  • (just my views, not "project" views or me commenting in staff role) @Razon If I understand correctly, your key point is that the time taken to play the game is the metric by which the game will stand or fall. This does not match my experience/the wider feedback I have gotten. It is a priority for a subset of the community, but no more than that. Particularly once one considers the cost. I think there are also strong elements of gaming culture/context to your experiences, that are not globally mi…

  • (not commenting in staff role) *shrug* It seems there is a school of thought saying that presentation of the rules is the problem. If this is the case, there is an easy solution: present them differently and post a PDF on the forum. The rules have been gold for years. Making a differently presented rulebook requires no permission from the project. I'm sure if a good job is done, the project will consider linking it on the download page. And/or suggesting changes that if made would result in it b…

  • (not commenting in staff role) One curious thing for me is that every thread like this moans about the complexity that is apparently due to tournament players... and whenever the project streamlines something, tourney players say "fine" and casual players object (because depth, immersion, flavour etc). (Note: I sit somewhere between the two camps personally in this case). Anyway... I actually think t9a is less complex than legacy... but the complexity is explicit rather than implicit, because t9…

  • VS LAB Fetthis Brutes Survey

    DanT - - The Vermin Swarm (VS)

    Post

    (not commenting in staff role) No swift reform or light troops also includes: Trolls, ghasts, kadims... The outcry when a unit doesn't have swift reform confuses me. Units without swift reform or light troops are used, casually and competitively so I see no reason to believe that having neither light troops nor a musician is fundamentally problematic. And yet, any new design that has neither of these attracts a lot of flak... Is this just an "ease of play" thing for players? Is it just too much …

  • Quote from Davian: “Naah, this is where you are wrong :p 7th is a serios downgrade from 6th ed. From the core mechanics perspective. The AB are a different story but I don't think AB has something to do with core mechanics. Also, I think us grognards who talk about 6th ed are more of the type of people who wants to implement the good things from 6th in T9A. Not leaving T9A because adding the good things from 6th ed would be "almost a straight up upgrade/improvement" for the game ” If you think 7…