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  • Someone should be playing Sylvan Elves and Beast Herds. All that scouting, vanguard, ambushing, forests, fear, would be very fun. I'd max out on things like Chariot Lords, Centaurs, Eagle/Shapeshifter Princes, Kestrals, Forest Rangers and Sentinels, then absolutely control the board.

  • Quote from DanT: “@LoeC My comments above are just intended to clarify that even if[/i] SE are mid-tier according to the data then skill curve problems can still exist, but such problems can't be fixed by points changes). ” *Opinion hat on* Might be worth clarifying, cannot be fixed -perfectly- . Because triple tree and sentinels has done exactly that, introduced a low variable low skill floor high result option. It is, quite simply, easier to play this sort of list to a good result, than other …

  • Quote from Desmoze: “agreed that the reduction on omen isn't enough, with master magic you would still rocket to 725 points without any manifestations, 865 with throne... He was less than 400 points in the first version and will never come back to this, but 500 points is still too high for me, you said that the reduction will allow a free manifestation but the one i would take for him is Iron husk Beast of prophecy deserve love too, maybe even some for dark pulpit If loosing vanguard is allowed,…

  • The Omen isn't the 'instant pick' he once was, but he still sees a fair amount of tournament play, at least as much as the Deceiver, who's not been mentioned in this thread at all. I mentioned 500, because I'm pretty sure at one point before he was 490, and still saw too much play, and got upped to 510, so 500 would split the difference between that nerf and where he currently is. Certainly can ask for 490, -20pts, but it's important to remember we're an externally over-performing army, so my gu…

  • Just to keep everyone in the loop, I'm drafting up what I'll send today, to submit tomorrow. Taking into account the poll, all of the conversations here, and some knowledge about how the algorithm works, the things that I'm considering putting forward are: ------- Omen: The Omen was once an incredibly popular Greater Daemon, but has fallen off sharply due to price increases and stat changes. He is inherently an RPS model, and we think that his price tag should reflect that with a base price decr…

  • DE General Discussion

    Alexwellace - - Dread Elves (DE)

    Post

    Following on from the math, and the given chance to allow BoAP, is it intended that a Dread Elf Warlock adept with BoAP can 5 dice something with a 40% chance of -2 to dispel, with +2 to cast? So a +3 dispel disparity is considered too much to be allowed to keep, but it's replaced with a RNG based chance of something even more extreme? I'd take a Cosmo adept Warlock with book, Perception of Strength, and 5 dice it into Militants or Obsidian Guard. This design seems to punish low dice casting to …

  • I've used Serpents, in the same way everyone else does! To supplement a Scourge or Deceiver character set up. And it works. Of course, it does. The best magic setup I've ever used was Omen + Sentinel masters + Veil Serpents for the twisted effigy + an additional lance. Also I'm pretty sure at one point Veil Serpents had Mirrored Scales? Maybe we're talking around each other in the explict details, I could easily see the addition of Mirrored Scales instead of Mesmerizing Plumage accomplishing the…

  • Quote from AlexCat: “Quote from Alexwellace: “then next patch we swap out one of their support manifestations (yawn or plumage) for a melee manifestation (unhinging jaw/venom sacs). Boom, you can take a cheap blob of flying unstompable movement 9 wounds who can gum up monsters and chariots and cav. I'd take that for a decent price. ” Please, dont do this.Whatever weird fantasies you have about how this unit should work, please stop. Its working as intended. Scrapping one of the debuffing manifes…

  • I pushed to have Veil Serpents reduced in additional model cost last year in this very scenario, but because they where buffed last patch they didn't want to double patch. And now that we know manifestation changes are on the table in the future, I do see a future for Veil Serpents. Let's say they get additional model decreases again this patch, simply through the algorithm, and then next patch we swap out one of their support manifestations (yawn or plumage) for a melee manifestation (unhinging…

  • DE General Discussion

    Alexwellace - - Dread Elves (DE)

    Post

    I got a little caught up in the Math for this, but the point is I don't think the situational -1 to dispel compensates for the +1 to casting value. I.E, if Irresistible Will was a completely free upgrade, I wouldn't choose it. It's horrendous for 2 dicing things, comes up less than 50% of the time when 3 dicing things, and increases the risk of 4 dicing something big and failing. I think that has to be re-thought, because as is I'd consider the Outcast to be statistically the worst caster in the…

  • Just wanting to manage expectations in terms of Clawed Fiends, data wise, I don't feel like they are particularly underused. Given that this is just from me looking at 8 tournies from the army list collection thread and searching 'Clawed Fiends', so it's in no way conclusive, but I think they do see some play as small movement 18 scoring darts, and also as reliable move 9 combat blocks. Point being, If they're on the list, I'm sure *something* will be done to them. But my gut feeling is expectin…

  • I would take Whipcrack tail for 3pts. If Hellhounds get a base and additional model decrease, to 170/18, as I'd suggest, then had the option to buy Whipcrack tail for 3pt, then a unit with Whipcrack tail would be pennies more than a unit currently without it would cost. But I have positive experiences with Hellhounds anyway, so it's probably a matter of perspective.

  • Quote from Desmoze: “will the manifestation swap be treated as one of the three allowed buff, or treated as another subject later ? If one of the three buff, could it be possible to see some point reduction AND a manifestation swap or it's only one of the two ? ” I've just checked, and came back with we can address all the relevant options, available to a single unit. So, if we choose clawed fiends/Hellhounds, then we can ask for changes to base price, additional model price, manifestation price…

  • With the above in mind, my personal opinion is that Hellhounds have more room for improvement than Clawed Fiends, but honestly both will likely be addressed in some way by the internal balance patch, since both are underused entries.

  • Big news Manifestation swaps are within scope, buuuuut they're likely to be scrutinized more heavily than other suggestions. So, that means that if we are suggesting any rank and file unit, now is our chance to look at that units manifestations and consider whether any of those are deeply under utilitised (not over priced, but the design simply doesn't fit the unit or that manifestation will always be considered worse than an alternative) and we can put forward suggestions for another choice. Th…

  • On Clawed Fiends, we haven't really talked about them in depth here. Do note that I don't think there are any other DL ACS's, heck I'm not even sure If I'm still an DL ACS, so I'm 100% using the forum as the sounding board for how to structure this proposal. I understand that stat wise they're relatively underwhelming, doing ok against their intended target and understated against everything else. What sort of price decreases would we be looking for, base price? Additional models? Manifestations…

  • *pushes hat down over ears and swirls my cosmopolitan cocktail in outrage* What slander! Say that again and you'll taste the edge of my finely crafted swor...Axe. I mean Axe. I used to call it the Sylvan Dwarves, back when you have multiple layers of effective gunners and melee capable throwing weapons, units of flying firepower, effective cheap war machines, skirmishing rangers and Thor throwing his explosive hand grenades. But with the current prices it's just not something I want to play anym…

  • Quote from Dragus: “The poll shows more than 3 things that clearly should be addressed in some way. I cannot understand why only (and exactly) 3 of them are going to be considered to fix. Why don't fixing all of them? It doesn't seem too difficult, IMO I get the book as a whole is going to suffer the nerf bat, because it seems to be over the average. But I'm talking about internal balance. By the way, as always, I really LOVE the army as it is, and I want to thank the designers for their excelle…

  • Got a poll up pulling out the more commonly brought up ideas in this thread. There where some options I chose not to include, for example moving manifestations around, because I am still waiting to find out if this is within scope. I also didn't include changes to the Avies cap because I do not think it will go through at all, we have an army specific cap which is more than adequate if you don't take a flying GD, and I think in this instance we're all talking about the Scourge rather than the St…

  • YOU CAN VOTE 4 TIMES, AND CHANGE YOUR VOTES AT ANY POINT. As the discussion continues I will add more options to the poll. Remember this is an exercise in qualitative data gathering, the RT has all the tournament usage data and win/pick rates, what they don't have is a forum full of people who play the army inside and out and the opinions that that cultivates. Here we have opportunities to address things that the Algorithm would miss, i.e manifestation choices or units taken because they fill a …