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Tuskers are a great unit, in both ogres and hobgoblins! Their main weakness is discipline, but you can spend their banner slot to help that. They also don't like alchemy and every once in a while... you'll need to charge through some trees and they'll reward you with a bunch of 1s and a failed panic test... but when they hit something...

Why are we using feldraks as an example? I think they're among the weakest for damage point for point of all monstrous units... and they should be! Move 8, 4 wounds each and good basic discipline is incredibly valuable for a unit like that. If they were also the best for damage... how much would you want to pay, 1000pts plus?

That was quite a while ago wasn't it? I feel your data is being very selective. There's been other nerfs to the combat tools since other than the doomblade alone.

That's a really neat map. Where has it been hiding?

A single dread sphinx has done ok for me in a couple games now. It's mobile so you can use it carefully against specific threats, and it's not too expensive so if you just hide behind a building all game it's not too much of a sunk cost.

I was thinking a bit more on WS2 tegu and I think it's an interesting design idea but it's a problem due to warhammer baggage of skinks and tegu. Same for goblins and orcs, gnoblars and ogres. As long as there's a second core unit type that lends itself more towards an avoidance/shooty/cheap bodies it will feel wrong to have the same WS as the larger fighting focused unit. For the two units to have the same WS, they would need to similiar roles excepting their different biologies. For example, i…

150pts for a 4 wound mini-monster that ambushes is a steal of a deal. The only catch - undead can be a real curse for his role. You need to pick targets carefully or just sacrifice him as chaff (which he's cheap enough to do).

For accuracy sake, you don't have 35 tegu, you have 25 or fewer They go second whether they charge or are charged in both scenarios.

Shabti Archers and Colossus are decent melee fighters... which means they pay a premium to add some mediocre shooting on top. Units that can do it all are often not great at anything in particular. For scouts, they're often just disposable bodies to block an enemy for a turn. Undead is more helpful than not, as you don't panic or run from terror. Just a few of the items from your post.

I just don't like the WS/DS 2. Lodestone, points, background, guidelines... I don't really care, I just don't like the feel of it I think the problem is skinks. We have little puny guys who are about shooting/avoidance with ws2, and then our big guys who are about frontline fighting are the same? Feels wrong to me.

The example he's mentioning is how warhammer handled templates. Presumably they added the guess factor as the scatter dice alone are generally very accurate (1/3 is a direct hit and many of the misses are "close enough") especially when shooting at larger targets. However the guessing was extremely abusable and it's popularity was generally related to how short and bearded your units were.

I used to think I was good at the game. Then I realized... nope, I'm playing Bretonnians in 6th edition. I've brought a missile to a knife fight.

For those without access to adequate shooting, a stomping monster on the corner is your best tool to deal with swordmasters!

I'll add another note for the kingsguard. Ridiculous cheap for damage output in line formation wirh access to grudges. Nothing else required, just raw great stats. The VS praetorian unit is also pretty crazy but requires the prefect and Aquila banner. They can also be neutralized by a catapult shot in a way kingsguard can't be. Swordmasters and judicators are also really mean in line formation but also easy to shoot and once you've taken them down to 2 or 2.5 ranks, you can fight them. Basiciall…

Is this still the general feedback thread? Here's mine after a read through. Focusing on rules only, no points. I really don't know if I'll play any games with this version of the alpha... hard to get excited about it. We will see. If anything, it would be a non-aunarch list with some of the conclaves as that was a build that was not usable in previous version. That's probably my favourite part of the new revision. Discipline change - good, much simpler. Might take a bit of thinking to see if it…

Ah I forgot about that... I think that really helps us get a third spell in there for an adept. Magic buffs are pretty key to keep our skeletons going.

Quote from w1ndkiller: “don't really understand how people can be soo hang up on nerfs, its the best performing army, and it's been it for a while. we seen it with other LABs where they teak it ABIT by bit only to leave the op armies(DE, KoE, and most likely still SE) waay too O for waay to long. doesn't anyone find that annoying ? ” You make a good point. Arguably I'd find this is a more significant nerf than KOE and VS patches (I played those armies at the time too). Maybe the heavy hand is th…

Points may have increased on this revision. But on the next? Or the one after that? Looking at the severity of this nerf, I think it's unlikely SA will be a top dog. I much prefer ws/ds 3 and if points had to go up this revision, sure... because they won't stay there.

Yikes, I had 4 lists loaded and they went up 150 - 250pts, not including the extra 50ish pts in extra Guerrillas and hunters now needed. Plus the rules nerfs on everything.. tegu, swarms, aunarch, discipline!

One of many changes I think. I believe one of the earlier iterations had their gaze at agility 10 but was also flipped.