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  • Archeron wrote:

    espn wrote:

    I really dont see how a 30-50p point decrease could take a bottom tier army up to mid tier. I appreciate some of the point decreases in this patch, but that's mostly internal balance anyway.
    Edit: and 30-50p point decrease I ofc talk about lista that were used previosuly. Not about new lists utilizing all the units that received the biggest discounts.
    Other Armys went up in cost , means you army are cheaper now and others more expansive. You onlöy see the 40 points of your army but others arm have now 200 points "less".
    This is very mis leading. Yes top tier armies had some points increase. This is true.
    UD took a hit with casting values true but instead of double snake units they now simply have 1 snake unit and a unit of 2 reapers with 4-5 bow shabti. That army still plays almost as strong as previous builds. I’m comparing top army with lowest army here. With most HBE top list we earned 30-50 points. 2-3 lionguard. The adjustment to UD was a hit but not against us. Even VS lists that had adjustments. Most lists end up a wash on points. Some things went up and other went down to compensate. Sure double mill is more expensive but other utility units recieved a price decrease...
    the top and mid armies stayed relatively the same as did we. Some models shifted and units went slightly higher or lower. We are still the lowest tiered army. Our internal balance went in the right direction but external we are exactly the same as a whole project.
  • Cealyne wrote:

    Archeron wrote:

    espn wrote:

    I really dont see how a 30-50p point decrease could take a bottom tier army up to mid tier. I appreciate some of the point decreases in this patch, but that's mostly internal balance anyway.
    Edit: and 30-50p point decrease I ofc talk about lista that were used previosuly. Not about new lists utilizing all the units that received the biggest discounts.
    Other Armys went up in cost , means you army are cheaper now and others more expansive. You onlöy see the 40 points of your army but others arm have now 200 points "less".
    This is very mis leading. Yes top tier armies had some points increase. This is true. UD took a hit with casting values true but instead of double snake units they now simply have 1 snake unit and a unit of 2 reapers with 4-5 bow shabti. That army still plays almost as strong as previous builds. I’m comparing top army with lowest army here. With most HBE top list we earned 30-50 points. 2-3 lionguard. The adjustment to UD was a hit but not against us. Even VS lists that had adjustments. Most lists end up a wash on points. Some things went up and other went down to compensate. Sure double mill is more expensive but other utility units recieved a price decrease...
    the top and mid armies stayed relatively the same as did we. Some models shifted and units went slightly higher or lower. We are still the lowest tiered army. Our internal balance went in the right direction but external we are exactly the same as a whole project.
    i´m on your side but still it is a differtent if i get 200 euros more per month or i get 200 Euro more per month and prices a going down around 10 %.

    You can´t see only HBE are 40 points cheaper you have also to see others got more expansive.

    There is not even 1 game played and still everybody is crying about apacalypse without even doing one game. They only see i only got 2 bodys more , they don´t see you got 6 cause your opponent also lost 4.

    There is a big difference between 1 snake unit or two , There is a big differenc between two units of 5 reapers or one of 7.

    Foer example: KOE lost there Duke , but many there are now searching for other builds on equal or little less power. Why they do this , not cause KoE is this good , no cause they try play games before they cry that the Sky is falling on there head.

    Is this Update enough , i personal think not , but some HBE problems can´t be solved by only points.

    All i want is to look from more sides on the update then only flat on HBE.

    Lord of Chaos , Duke of Equitaine , Cuatl of the Golden City , Herold of the Empire , Summoner of Pestilence , Lord of the Sea WotdG,KoE,SA,EoS, and DL and new HE but with Dragon Empire Ordo Sanctae Mariae Teutonicorum
  • Cealyne wrote:

    UD took a hit with casting values true but instead of double snake units they now simply have 1 snake unit and a unit of 2 reapers with 4-5 bow shabti. That army still plays almost as strong as previous builds.
    I would suggest you take this sentence to the UD forum and ask their opinion.
    Top UD lists increased by 180-300 points. How can the army still play "almost as strong"? How much is "almost"?

    Trains_Get_Robbed wrote:

    Instead of taking Ryma Knights, one could take a Frost Phoenix in this role, which has advantages and disadvantages, but is slightly cheaper for those differences, as well as significantly cheaper than most cowboys, but retaining similar survivability of most HBE cowboys.
    Could you explain this further please? I do not see how a Frost Phoenix is zoning the same things as a unit of 5-6 Ryma Knights (dmg output is definitely on the side of the Rymas). Isn't it more like a roadblock with Supernal and Rebirth?

    Trains_Get_Robbed wrote:

    What the book needed competitively is a whole another free unit of Ryma Knights/Frost Phoenix, MSU unit of special infantry/x2 more Reaver Chariot chaff pieces etc. Which is 200-350 points ballpark.
    You mean that the top HE lists needed a 200-350 discount? Or an average HE list? Or any list?
    'He opened the battered book. Bits of paper and string indicated his many bookmarks.
    "In fact, men, the general has this to say about ensuring against defeat when outnumbered, out–weaponed and outpositioned. It is..." he turned the page, "Don't Have a Battle."
    "Sounds like a clever man," said Jenkins.'
    Terry Pratchett, Jingo!

    My humble Highborn Elves army blog:
    Elendor's HE army
  • Archeron wrote:

    Foer example: KOE lost there Duke , but many there are now searching for other builds on equal or little less power. Why they do this , not cause KoE is this good , no cause they try play games before they cry that the Sky is falling on there head.
    Oh dont get me wrong. We have also some doomsday people in KoE forum...it is just that the other keep them at bay and the stop being so depressive..... that is the problem with HBE...you have way too many doomsday people or the other people dont write enough...in the end the normal people will leave and only doom and chaos will rein.

                    

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  • N3okorrales wrote:

    Klexe wrote:

    Furion opinions are funny :)
    care to elaborate? or just trolling as usual?
    Read my text above this post. It should answer everything :P

    in short:
    Furion has the biggest ego on the world and it matters NOTHING if he is right ....he is not able to work with other people.

                    

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    KoE Community Support

    Lord of the Hobby

    Follow my games here: the-ninth-age.com/community/in…%C3%BCnchen-und-umgebung/
  • Klexe wrote:

    Furion has the biggest ego on the world and it matters NOTHING if he is right ....he is not able to work with other people.
    I don't know Furion personally. Maybe he thinks too highly of himself. Maybe not.
    But in T9A, and in real life for that matter, sometimes people you dislike raise good suggestions, or make correct points. Sometimes people you like raise bad points or make incorrect statements. We are all human.

    If you refuse to ever take into account correct statements made by people you dislike, it says far more about you than about the person making the statements.

    So can we go back to treat Furion's arguments (or any other poster) for their content rather than their author? Treating Furion (or anyone else) as gospel is a bad approach, and dismissing him (or anyone else) because of your opinion about him is also a bad approach.
    If you disagree with him, explain which of the points he made are incorrect in your opinion. Perhaps we will all be wiser after a discussion about content instead of fingerpointing.
    'He opened the battered book. Bits of paper and string indicated his many bookmarks.
    "In fact, men, the general has this to say about ensuring against defeat when outnumbered, out–weaponed and outpositioned. It is..." he turned the page, "Don't Have a Battle."
    "Sounds like a clever man," said Jenkins.'
    Terry Pratchett, Jingo!

    My humble Highborn Elves army blog:
    Elendor's HE army
  • Klexe wrote:

    Archeron wrote:

    Foer example: KOE lost there Duke , but many there are now searching for other builds on equal or little less power. Why they do this , not cause KoE is this good , no cause they try play games before they cry that the Sky is falling on there head.
    Oh dont get me wrong. We have also some doomsday people in KoE forum...it is just that the other keep them at bay and the stop being so depressive..... that is the problem with HBE...you have way too many doomsday people or the other people dont write enough...in the end the normal people will leave and only doom and chaos will rein.
    Don´t get me wrong , booth armys have problems which can´t be solved by points. And i don´t say the let´s call them "cryes" are wrong , i only say they are not fully right. You always have to look at more then on side and not only flat. There is not only Black and white. There are many different colors between this.


    Klexe wrote:

    Read my text above this post. It should answer everything :P
    in short:
    Furion has the biggest ego on the world and it matters NOTHING if he is right ....he is not able to work with other people.
    It doesn´t help to attack peoples in the open forum directly. The input of everybody is always welcome and posts like @Furions are post which help cause they have many infos and truth in them.

    Lord of Chaos , Duke of Equitaine , Cuatl of the Golden City , Herold of the Empire , Summoner of Pestilence , Lord of the Sea WotdG,KoE,SA,EoS, and DL and new HE but with Dragon Empire Ordo Sanctae Mariae Teutonicorum
  • @Klexe
    Are you really going to bring up that its HBE player's fault right now? A lot of the doomsayers play other armies. Orcs are fine for me. I play my brother's KoE too sometimes and i would say its fine.
    Hbe not so much... but maybe I am behind the curve on this one, and i just let the army gather dust.

    I would also encourage you to criticize Furion's points rather than his character. It's a rather poor look for you.
    The change in font size of this post is purely accidental: my phone is stupid, and I am too stupid to fix it.
  • Klexe wrote:

    N3okorrales wrote:

    Klexe wrote:

    Furion opinions are funny :)
    care to elaborate? or just trolling as usual?
    Read my text above this post. It should answer everything :P
    in short:
    Furion has the biggest ego on the world and it matters NOTHING if he is right ....he is not able to work with other people.
    d6b5ff21fb5d9454c4107cc766b90a7f.jpg

    This is the trophy for most awful subforum of T9A. Us HBE players have long cherished it as our prize, our precious. But it's time to let it go I'm afraid. We rarely to never do personal insults here. So I think we're no longer worthy of it.
    ETC Team Belgium 2014 Dark Elves
    ETC Team Belgium 2015 Skaven
    ETC Team Belgium 2016 Lizardmen
    ETC Team Belgium 2017 Highborn Elves
    ETC Team Belgium 2019 Highborn Elves
  • Klexe wrote:

    Archeron wrote:

    Foer example: KOE lost there Duke , but many there are now searching for other builds on equal or little less power. Why they do this , not cause KoE is this good , no cause they try play games before they cry that the Sky is falling on there head.
    Oh dont get me wrong. We have also some doomsday people in KoE forum...it is just that the other keep them at bay and the stop being so depressive..... that is the problem with HBE...you have way too many doomsday people or the other people dont write enough...in the end the normal people will leave and only doom and chaos will rein.
    I agree with this completely!

    In the KoE forum its not the users that whine and make problems, its the staff.
  • It's understandable that fandom is only 98% in love with me.

    The 2% are the hate element in the love-hate relationship.

    @Klexe, I want you to know that I will hug you when we (ever) meet. You will be able to cry out to my shoulder, and I will not judge, I will not repremend, I will just blissfuly accept you as a whole, along with any of your shortcomings.
    my ETC 2019 roster
    750 - High Prince on Dragon, Dragon, Great Weapon, Obsidian Rock
    565 - Mage: Asfad Scholar, Master, Divination, Book of Meladys,
    485 - High Prince: Queen's Companion, General, Spear, Sliver of the Blazing Dawn, Destiny's Call, Longbow, Moonlight Arrows
    280 - 20x Citizen Spears, MC
    190 - 5x Elein Reavers, Bows
    662 - 27x Sea Guard, MSC, Banner of Speed
    360 - 5x Knights of Ryma, M
    180 - 3x1 Sea Guard Reaper
    663 - 21x Lion Guard, MSC, Banner of Becalming
    4500
  • Alexwellace wrote:

    With the points drop on both Amethyst crystal and crystal ball, it's less than 100pts to get +2 to dispel against every spell cast by the enemies main wizard. Throw in banner of becalming to really shut down the opponents magic phase. This seems really strong to me, not OP strong, but strong as in I'd have this set up in most of my lists.

    Add that to how cheap Obsidian rock is now, and the healing/damage mitigation of the Tower guy it seems like HbE could make some very strong lists based around protecting a single unit/model to be completely immune to magic (+4 to dispel). I'd consider an Order of the Fiery Heart dragon mage.
    I’ve tried that build before the discounts. It’s not good enough. Our “magic defense” theme is basically a bad meme nowadays. Makes me sad.

    lamronchak wrote:

    8 more page i'm sure you can do it !

    Come on elves can you post more about our beautiful army !

    No talk about ryma deathstar ?
    Full cav army with monster ?

    :laola:

    :clapping:
    I’m working on the “Nobody Walks” list (creatively titled, Knightmare). Just need someone to test it against once it’s complete. It probably won’t be competitive, but might be fun? It was very capable of pantsing opponents who didn’t know how to deal with M10 cavalry bricks.
  • Furion wrote:

    @Klexe, I want you to know that I will hug you when we (ever) meet. You will be able to cry out to my shoulder, and I will not judge, I will not repremend, I will just blissfuly accept you as a whole, along with any of your shortcomings.
    @Klexe: It's not your fault.

    Display Spoiler

    Here is the actual scene between Furion and Klexe:


    Furion about our SeaGuard (V.0.202.0): "I don't expect much of them, and indeed not much have they delivered"
  • Furion wrote:

    I wonder when will you all realise, that this patch is a 1 or 2 elite elves difference in competetive rosters, and the non-competetive rosters even with +150 pts are still bad.

    Like all this Highborn Lancers hype.

    I give it a week tops.
    Then the late to the party will admire the grandeour of point-inefficiency of Lancers and Griffons and Swordmasters.
    I realise you spend a lot of time playing this game and that you care about the state of your book, but since you’ve already agreed that this patch was a good showing of intent from RT, how about a more positive attitude?

    You seem to be quite confident in these matters, but could it be that no one, not even you, can figure out the exact costs at which each unit is viable? Could it also be that a restrictive approach is preferred, given the complexity of the balancing problem?

    I’m not going to pretend like I know the HE book better than you. Maybe a 20% point decrease for Highborn Lancers would have been better. Maybe the same is true for some units in other books. Maybe making a lot of drastic changes simultaneously could have negative impact on external balance.

    And most importantly, maybe you having a more positive attitude would make it easier for you to co-operate with the project, and maybe we could all benefit from the project working with players of your caliber to create a better game.