Adam Battle reports

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    • Adam Battle reports

      VC games start at page 7 prior to that there are HBE reports.

      Some forum members here asked me to write a battle report (@'Calcathin', @Masamune88) so here it goes :)

      Last saturday I attended small local 3000 pts tournament. Finally I managed to remember to take pictures of my battles so here it goes:

      First my list:

      Prince LC, divine icon, demon hunter helm, spout of rebirth
      Queen Companion BSB crown of scorn, bow of elu
      5 reavers
      10 lancers fcg banner of speed
      10 queens guard musican, aether icon
      2 SGR
      Flame phoenix

      The concept behind the list was pretty simple, I wanted to have LC in lancer bus increasing his charge range by 1" (that continues to be a great idea as oftentimes his effective charge range is 2" bigger as the enemy so the zoning power is much bigger) forming a zoning threat to keep enemy at bay from my shooting. LC was kited in a way to be very effective against combat characters so I could zone out enemy strongest combat pieces.

      With as heavy shooting as I had there was very little need for my combat block to actually go in combat, while I was dealing heavy casualties with shooting and phoenix. In case I met a heavy infantry roster I had huge damaging potential from phoenix. I also invested in heavy antimagic since my shooting base was very fragile despite having huge damage output so I needed to protect it.

      The biggest threat to such list would be a heavy gunline but there are ways to deal with it. The perfect enemy would be heavy push infantry list.

      #1: For my first battle I faced WoTG:
      His list was:
      Sorcerer Master of Change, disk, hardened shield, ring of fire, 4++, Alchemy 4 spells
      Chaos Harbinger of Change with 4++, fireborn, 1+ and razor blade mounted on demonic steed
      21 wasteland warriors of change with halaberds
      2x5 warhounds
      chaos chariot
      chaos chariot of lust
      battle shrine of true chaos

      We rolled for classic deployment with breakthrough scenario

      Pre game thoughts:
      His list has no threats to mine apart from mage so he was number one priority to take. My enemy could take 2 approaches to the game - either recognize that he can't do anything in this game and castle in the corner minimizing his loses or try to yolo me. In yolo approach I would just shoot down the wizard and then chip down his infantry until I can ride over them. If he castles in the corner I would shoot as much as I can and win the objective.

      Deployment



      I chose side and my opponent chose to deploy a single unit then I dropped entire army. He deployed into corner behind forest, apart from some chaff and chariot which was supposed to threaten my flank. I deployed on the oposite corner (although it doesn't look this way SGRs were on the hill but kept sliding from it so they look as they are). QG were placed behind the hill so they are protected from magic. The only units close to the enemy were reavers and phoenix to slow down his advance if he chooses to go yolo.

      Turn 1



      In my turn I shot 2 single bolts at his mage dealing 2 wounds to him and destroyed a unit of hounds on the flank, while slowly advancing to the chariot keeping outside of its charge range. I have also moved away my phoenix and reavers from the impassable terrain on the right to create a spot for him to threaten my units. I considered it worth for a bait since if it succeded the game would be decided in turn 2. My opponent took the bait to hide a mage behind impassable terrain and dealt 3W to reavers with magic.

      Turn 2 and 3



      Sadly I forgot to take picture of turn 2 but I flew phoenix back behind the impassable terrain so that mage had no spot to hide from its charge and advanced QG to shoot him. He survived a round of shooting but then had to fly away from cover. At the same time SGRs put 3W on chariot. My opponent tried to advance his army to aid the mage but he left a spot for a phoenix to land so I used flame wake on the mage killing him.

      Turn 4 to 6



      I killed his chariot and second hounds and claimed objective with lancers, he hid the rest of his army in the corner minimizing casualties.

      The game ended 18:2 in my favor

      #2: for my second battle I faced HBE:
      LC prince on chariot: giant blade, divine icon, lucky shield, lucky charm
      Queen Companion BSB bow of elu
      14 archers
      10 lancers fcg
      10 queens guard
      2 SGR
      6KoR
      eagle

      We rolled for classic deployment with breakthrough scenario (that seemed to be recurring pattern for me in this tournament

      Pre game thoughts:
      Nearly mirror of my list but with stronger shooting that can easily damage my shooting base. Also his list (apart from sub-optimally kitted LC) has more CC punch in a form of 6KoR. My list on the other hand has upper hand in mobility having +1M on lancers and phoenix. My plan was to try to out-deploy him in a way that I could avoid most of his shooting (at least bow shooting) as the battlefield had a lot of obscuring terrain until I can utilize my movement advantage.

      Deployment



      He won roll to choose side and choose side with big forest to hide his shooting there. Then I took around 15 minutes to carefully measure and plan my deployment. After making sure that regardless of his deployment I will be able to hide my shooting from him in the first turn and then attack it I chose to deploy second. My enemy dropped all his army to get first turn shooting damage on me. I very carefully placed all my units behind terrain so he had only a handful of bad targets to shoot. He could target reavers but they had hard cover from hill QG were hidden, he could shoot 1SGR at LC but he had cover from lancers so the only real target were lancers. I placed QG in a way that they could go on hill and shoot his bsb unit which coupled with SGR shooting should destroy it. Phoenix and reavers were there to slow his advance, and if LC chooses to press forward phoenix would fly over and start killing his shooting.

      Turn 1



      My opponent advanced his KoR without checking if I cannot charge him, advanced with LC and dealt 4W with SGRs to my lancers. On my turn I charged KoR from flank with lancers, breaking them and catching outside of his lancers view. At the same time I flew over his eagle with phoenix killing him. My QG went on the hill obscured from archers sight by reavers, who at the same time were redirecting LC (this part was written weirdly in the rules so we were not sure if reavers actually obscure view to QG but we agreed that it was logical, I'll follow up with rules team on that). My LC was in cover from impassable terrain because I didn't need to take any unnecessary risk. In my shooting phase I killed 8GQ from combined shooting of 2SGRs and QG

      Turn 2



      In his turn he charged reavers with LC he didn't want to overrun because that would place him in charge range of my LC so he just pivoted to attack my QG next turn then he moved lancers to try to threaten mine. In my turn I charged with phoenix his SGR which I killed and overran into archers. I moved QG back from the hill so his LC didn't see them. I also moved my lancers out of his front arc ready to charge his SGR.

      Turn 3



      In his turn he turned his LC to get ready to charge my phoenix, and moved his lancers to try to threaten my SGRs. In my turn I went on the hill with my QG and shot down his QG and BSB. Then I made two mistakes which costed me 740 VP in the end - first I didn't block his lancers with my LC, then I thought my SGR would kill his lancers (in this turn I had severe case of brain freeze). Then I forgot archers were not steadfast in the forest so they withstood phoenix charge.

      Turn 4 to 6



      I lost phoenix to his LC killed his archers, lost SGRs to his lancers and killed them in the end with LC. In the end I scored objective with my lancers and the game ended.

      The game ended 19:1 in my favor

      #3: In the last battle I faced SE:
      Druid apprentice general tree singing scroll
      BSB with hail
      2x10 archers
      8 pathfinders
      5 heath riders
      6 heath riders
      8 bladedancers
      8 dryads
      eagle

      We rolled diagonal deployment with breakthrough (once again breakthrough :P)

      Pre game thoughts:
      I did not understand the choice of 1 spell apprentice but apart from that he had a lot of quite good quality shooting and some mobile combat threats (albeit susceptible to shooting) My plan was to carefully deploy in a way to utilize my longer range from SGRs, while at the same time keeping his shooters away with lanceers, to reduce his shooting power to be able to advance safely to him.

      Deployment



      My opponent chose side with huuuge forest in the corner, so I dropped my entire army to have a free turn of shooting at him. He deployed very defensively (also close to the board edge which caused him a lot of problems).

      Turn 1



      In my first turn I advanced my cavalry to be 21,1" from his heath riders reavers advanced behind them. I also flew with phoenix to threaten his pathfinders and stepped down from hill with QG as they didn't have any good targets so there was no need to risk them. In my shooting phase I dealt 3W on the archer unit with BSB who failed panic with reroll on ld8 and fled through eagle. Eagle then panicked and fled of the board. It seemed that my opponent lost faith after that and played without much hope. In his turn he hid pathfinders moving them closer to dryads so they were out of sight of my 2 SGRs and phoenix. He also killed 3 lancers with combined shooting.

      Turn 2



      I kept my lancers in place zoning his shooting pieces away from QG. I also flew over pathfinders with phoenix killing 3. They failed panic on LD 8 and fled through dryads off the table. I moved QG on the hill since there were no longer any threats to them and killed one unit of heath riders with them. My opponent shoot a bit more at me.

      Turn 3 to 6



      I pressed onward with the lancer bus as soon as both his heath riders units were killed focusing combined shooting and phoenix flight on blade dancers with his general who also died. At the same time I blocked archers with phoenix from shooting lancers. He then dealt 5W to my phoenix with 10SE archers killing it :). In the end I charged through with LC killing his BSB while shooting killed dancers and general. In the following turns I marched with QG to claim objective while QC and SGRs shot down dryads.

      The game ended 20:0 in my favor and I ended up winning the whole event with total 57 VPs

      I hope that this was interesting, and if that is so I'll try to capture a bit more later on :)
      My gallery: Adam painting stuff (HE, VC, OK and lots of terrain)
      My battle reports: Adam Battle reports

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Adam ().

    • Interesting! Thanks for the report!

      I have a small question, why is a 10 Lancers unit so popular?
      In which way is it better than 2 units of 5 Lancers?
      You are going to use LC Prince to combo charge people anyway (or to join the unit with the +1M Banner), but having more units allows you more flexibility in deployment and in target selection. I believe you are also less vulnerable to artillery with 2 units than with 1.

      My own guess is that a single bit unit poses a larger threat to zone people off your shooting base, but I think this can be achieved with 2 units also (if you deploy them in the same zone).

      Cheers!
      'He opened the battered book. Bits of paper and string indicated his many bookmarks.
      "In fact, men, the general has this to say about ensuring against defeat when outnumbered, out–weaponed and outpositioned. It is..." he turned the page, "Don't Have a Battle."
      "Sounds like a clever man," said Jenkins.'
      Terry Pratchett, Jingo!

      My humble Highborn Elves army blog:
      Elendor's HE army
    • 10 lancers are in my list best for two reasons - banner of +1M is really survivable with them and second they grant ranks for breaking steadfast (so charging 30 man horde I just need to kill 6 models and loose 4 or less to break steadfast which is usually easily doable)
      My gallery: Adam painting stuff (HE, VC, OK and lots of terrain)
      My battle reports: Adam Battle reports
    • Adam wrote:

      10 lancers are in my list best for two reasons - banner of +1M is really survivable with them and second they grant ranks for breaking steadfast (so charging 30 man horde I just need to kill 6 models and loose 4 or less to break steadfast which is usually easily doable)
      I feel really dumb cause I must be missing something. You would have to kill 6 models and not loose any to remove Steadfast. They would still have 2 ranks and if you lose even one lancer then you would only have 1. What am I missing here?
    • PunkMonk wrote:

      Adam wrote:

      10 lancers are in my list best for two reasons - banner of +1M is really survivable with them and second they grant ranks for breaking steadfast (so charging 30 man horde I just need to kill 6 models and loose 4 or less to break steadfast which is usually easily doable)
      I feel really dumb cause I must be missing something. You would have to kill 6 models and not loose any to remove Steadfast. They would still have 2 ranks and if you lose even one lancer then you would only have 1. What am I missing here?
      What you are missing is lion chariot in the unit that counts for 4 cavalry bases :) So it is equivalent to 14 man cavalry unit

      That is why my main use for the unit is to deliver prince to combat (especially that it makes my prince M9 due to banner of speed, which is a huge difference)
      My gallery: Adam painting stuff (HE, VC, OK and lots of terrain)
      My battle reports: Adam Battle reports
    • Those are excellent reports @Adam, thanks! Very good to see the use of lancers + lion chariot. Also, master use of that phoenix. I really like how you play cat&mouse with QG on and off the hill to deliver pain and then keep them safe; this is key for them to survive.

      Also, many may not have noticed, but your deployment vs SE is very good. Phoenix and bus at the front to prevent them coming close to your QG and helping you win the shooting war due to SGR extra range. Fire phoenix is golden vs pathfinders here, as he'll burn them if they stand anywhere close.

      Vs the HbE player it seems like this KoR unit was not within sight.. maybe a matter of a missing picture? You made much better une of your movement & shooting than your opponent. KoR is a hard match-up as it zones your phoenix ( and even LC ), but he played them so wrong..

      Well deserved victory! Keep more quality reports coming!
      Always a Highborn Elf, here or somewhere else
    • Jim wrote:

      nice job.

      Good call on a breaker list. Won the games in the "list building phase" ;)

      How wide where the tables? Would have thought 48x48 but they look more narrow on the pictures.
      They were 48"/48"

      Also my friend (second HBE game) had very similar list but came close to bottom, so I would argue about winning just with list :)
      My gallery: Adam painting stuff (HE, VC, OK and lots of terrain)
      My battle reports: Adam Battle reports
    • Jim wrote:

      Good call on a breaker list. Won the games in the "list building phase" ;)
      No. The list is really nice, tbh. But since he clearly won the "almost mirror", it shows that he didn't only make a good list, but even knew how to play it well. And the use of the phoenix sounds quite amazing. Just ordered the bits to make a flame phoenix from the remaining parts from my frosty because of this.

      lol. I had the thread open in a tab for a few hours now and the last 2 comments just appeared to me after my reply... :D
    • matrim wrote:

      @Adam if you were to play 4500pts games would you build on this list or go for a differnt approach?
      That is a good question, imho at 4500 your options are far more open. I think that similar build but with more of everything (+1 phoenix +10 QG, some extra CC unit) would definitely work. I was also considering AD + MOCT with lancer darts 2 20-25 man spears, skirmish lions and 2 sloops + eagle or two or a block of archers (I have not tested it but it looks really good with ton of scoring and AD + druidism). Also full gunline (LC, Asfad, QC, 30 archers, 3SGR, 2 phoenixes, lancer darts and skirmish lions for Asfad) looks viable. The last list I was considering was double LC + QC, with sloops, 30 archers, phoenixes and some cavalry blocks forming a nice, very mobile MSU with good combat punch. Also for some time I used a list without bsb running Divination Asfad in lancers + LC and usual combination of 2 fire phoenixes SGRS and 2 units of QC.

      I still have a hard time fitting elite infantry apart from skirmish lions to my rosters even though SM and LG seem to be viable - I just prefer my lists to be very mobile or shooty in my current local meta.

      Hope that helps, even though the ideas are not really structured :)
      My gallery: Adam painting stuff (HE, VC, OK and lots of terrain)
      My battle reports: Adam Battle reports
    • Here comes MoCT Fleet Commander battle report. Sorry for taking pictures with potato quality but my phone is old and lighting was poor.

      Yesterday I played a friendly game with KoE. In his list my opponent had:
      Duke 2+ 4++ hippogriff GW and virtue of MW2 against S/T5+
      Damsel on unicorn with fly forbiding talisman, sceptre of power, something that forbids stand and shoot and wizard master 4 spells divination
      BSB palladin MW2 gw 1+ war banner + D3" charge range

      11 Knights of the realm (palladin went there)
      8 grail knights banner of speed (damsel went there)
      5 and 6 mounted yeomen
      2 trebs
      4x10 pesant bowmen

      My list was:
      Prince, Moct, 4xAlchemy, Spear of blazing dawn, dragon mantle, HA, shield, spout of rebirth, potion of speed.
      Fleet officer BSB, HA, shield

      30SM flaming banner FCG
      3x10 archers mus
      2x5 lancers mus
      2x eagle
      2x flame phoenix
      3x SGR

      Battlefield looked like that, we rolled for counter thrust deployment and breakthrough objective.
      My opponent rolled scrying, 2 nukes, and rerolls to hit. I had molten copper, silver spike, +asv and transmutation to lead.


      I won the roll for side so I chose the one with ruins and forest to cover my troops better and to have more places to hide from trebs. His shooting was the main threat for SM, but I had more drops so I could out deploy him. He also had multiple threats against phoenixes, and could block my fly for turn so I had not many reliable redirectors if things go sour.

      That is how the game looked after deployment
      SM were deployed 2x16 (only front and back are placed the rest stands aside as it would be really tedious to move them from tray) outside of middle treb view. Far to the right there are 5 lancers and second eagle. Far to the left there is one more SGR in the woods. I won the roll for the first turn.

      Turn 1
      I declared a 19" charge against his vanguarding yeomen with phoenix (if I made it I would run through to archers and generally wreck havoc, if I failed I didn't loose anything as phoenix would move more or less where I wanted anyway. There was also a possibility of causing terror. My opponent failed his terror check and fled through two archer units removing yeomen from the game for around 2 turns. I also declared 18" charge with right lancers against archers but I failed. I advanced fast with SM shielding them from treb sight with lancers. I also hid second phoenix behind the hill. I rolled 1-2 for magic and failed to cast molten copper on 3 dice. There was also some shooting but it was ineffective (I killed some yeomen and a peasant).


      Koe turn 1
      In his turn he charged lancers from the side with grails, advanced his knights of the realm to the hill and chaffed SM with yeomen. He also moved duke to the right to protect archers and treb from lancers and eagle. In shooting he didn't do much as there weren't that many good targets for him. After killing lancers with grails he pivoted to face SM with two units of knights. He casted rerolls to hit on knights of the realm.

      HBE turn 2
      My opponent declared that use of fly banning item this turn. I had to do a lot of careful measurements to make sure that my plan would work. Then I charged left yeomen with Archers and SM (if archers made a charge on 9" I would be able to place sm better so they would overrun into grails and archers would overrun past knights and would be able to proceed to claim breakthrough objective, sadly archers failed a charge so I had to use phoenix ground movement to block knights of the realm charge. After CC i reformed SM into 5x6 formation ready to take on grails charge. I also moved second phoenix closer to the main action. On the right flank I moved both lancers and an eagle (who for some weird reason looks a lot like Varkolak - but I won't judge that :P) 20.1" from hippogryph to keep his duke busy. In my shooting knights of the realm ate 3 single bolts and 20 arrows which killed 6 of them. In my magic I again rolled 1-2 and this time failed 9+ transmutation to lead on 3 dice :).


      KOE turn 2
      That was the moment in which my opponent made a terrible mistake that costed him a game as he charged with grails at archers in the forest past SM (he wanted to move past me) but I fled, so he redirected at SGR which was 19" from him and failed a charge exposing a flank to sm and phoenix. He also charged an eagle in front of ruins with knights of the realm. In this turn he also moved duke towards middle of the board which freed my flanking units. In magic he rolled 6-5 and managed to destroy my left SGR with boosted fate edict and killed 6 SM with unnering strike. I dispelled 2 augments after. In shooting he hit with one treb my SM killing 9.

      HBE turn 3
      I charged grails with SM and phoenix, I moved the other phoenix to his archers (closer than 12" from treb and past his duke sight. I also advanced my remaining 3 archers past his duke sight. On the flank I charged one unit of archers with lancers in such a way that I would pursue into second which I charged with an eagle (that way I got rid of 2 units in one CC turn). Knights of the realm killed eagle but failed to break archers as they lost another 2 men on ruins. In magic I rolled 1-2 (who would have thought) so I 3 diced small +1 to asv to make sure I roll enough. My opponent failed to dispell, and his grails became flammable. In shooting I scored 2 wounds on duke with SGR. SM munched grails (I scored 3W got 1 back, had charge, big flank, extra banner and 2 ranks so he auto broke). I made one mistake though as phoenix dropped out of CC due to weak positioning on my side, but it didn't matter in the end.

      KOE turn 3
      My opponent charged my middle phoenix with yeomen and archers, fled with duke. Shooting didn't do much. He lost CC with phoenix who caught archers and pursued into treb. Knights of the realm still were stuck in archers as he fluffed most of his rolls (again).


      HBE turn 4
      I charged remaining treb, scored another wound on duke with SGR and killed his last archer unit. At this point the only KOE units on the table were 1 knight of the realm, palladin, 1 wound hippogryph. I only lost an eagle, one unit of lancers and 50% of one archers unit. My opponent conceded game at this point.

      Final thoughts
      I am quite happy with the roster although I might kit MoCT a bit differently. Im considering to swap spout and potion for one or couple of: divine icon, ring of fire, scepter of power or one of the books. Charm of cursed iron also looks interesting, and banner of speed on BSB.

      All in all it was a nice game.
      My gallery: Adam painting stuff (HE, VC, OK and lots of terrain)
      My battle reports: Adam Battle reports

      The post was edited 2 times, last by Adam ().

    • Adam wrote:

      I charged grails with SM and phoenix, I moved the other phoenix to his archers (closer than 12" from treb and past his duke sight. I also advanced my remaining 3 archers past his duke sight. On the flank I charged one unit of archers with lancers in such a way that I would pursue into second which I charged with an eagle (that way I got rid of 2 units in one CC turn). Knights of the realm killed eagle but failed to break archers as they lost another 2 men on ruins. In magic I rolled 1-2 (who would have thought) so I 3 diced small +1 to asv to make sure I roll enough. My opponent failed to dispell, and his grails became flammable. In shooting I scored 2 wounds on duke with SGR.
      It seems you forgot one "detail" about this turn... What happened in the Grails/SM/Phoenix fight? :D
      We all know the end result, but you don't even mention it. ;)

      Out of curiosity - how do you think that fight would have ended without the phoenix support? I.e. only remaining SMs (15, right?) + characters. Was the flammable on Grail Knights decisive?
      Professionally printed Magic cards

      I’m no lord. I’ve more respect for myself than that. - Mat Cauthon
    • @Iluvatar I fixed the description. We both rolled badly in the fight (I dealt 1 extra wound due to flammable) but positioning was far better for my units so I had a lot of static going my way.
      • I had +1 for charge
      • +1 for hill charge
      • 1 more rank than him
      • +2 for flank
      • +1 for BSB
      I failed to place phoenix correctly so he dropped out of CC and didn't influence it at all. Still in the end MoCT is quite killy and SM too + I had extra save from spell so SM were actually reasonably tanky.
      My gallery: Adam painting stuff (HE, VC, OK and lots of terrain)
      My battle reports: Adam Battle reports