Wraith and reaper movement

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  • Wraith and reaper movement

    Hi, i would show and ask u if the pictures below can explain correctly the reaper movement:

    1° Starting positions: the wraith are more 12" from Knights


    2°Free reform: Now wraiths are in 12" from knights:


    3° Wraith move 11" and touch the knights, than they make reapers with free reform, so all wraith touched the knights:


    4° Wraith move last 1"


    Wraiths arrive to final position:


    6° Free reform


    7° The wraith arrive to final position without move more than 12" from start to end.


    Is that all correct?
    I would like an ufficial answer, tnks.
  • If this was ETC 2012 in Poland and you were Team Italy 3x10 hexwraiths, then yes.


    But in 2017, this is and has been illegal for a while.

    p.97 Sweeping Attack

    "When a model performs a Sweeping attack, the distance moved is counted from its
    starting position to the point on the Battlefield where it performed the attack, and then to its final position."

    No model can move from starting position to the unit, so you couldn't reap this unit at all.

    Each model would need to be 11" away to reap (11" to the unit, 1" back for spacing rule).
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    The post was edited 1 time, last by eggsPR ().

  • Yes, but you don't measure after the first reform. You measure before the first reform.


    Reforms aren't free when you reap.

    Also, no model can ever EVER exceed double it's movement value, by reforms or otherwise.

    In your example, all models are > double their movement value away, so it's simply impossible.
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  • xciccox wrote:

    So... may u make a picture like me to explain how reaper work?
    Last question is... are u an ufficial 9°th age rules team?
    1. Make sure no model end up further than 12' (if able to march) away from it's starting point

    2. Make sure every model end up in legal position at the end of the move

    3. Resist the urge to reap by moving one model to touch the enemy and then reform = number of Wraiths and them moving on
  • Under light troops "If a model performed any action during the movement (such as Sweeping attacks), the distance moved is counted from its starting position to the point on the Battlefield where it performed that action and then to its final position"

    Same as Eggs posted, note that the distance is not from the starting position to end position, it's starting - where you did sweeping - end.

    So to be able to sweep, with M6, if you are exactly within 10", you would march almost 10.1", touch the unit with your front rank and 2nd rank, and then move backwards 1.9" to clear the spacing rule.

    (I think that's correct, please correct me if my numbers were off, this is pre-coffee)
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  • Lagerlof wrote:

    Under light troops "If a model performed any action during the movement (such as Sweeping attacks), the distance moved is counted from its starting position to the point on the Battlefield where it performed that action and then to its final position"

    Same as Eggs posted, note that the distance is not from the starting position to end position, it's starting - where you did sweeping - end.

    So to be able to sweep, with M6, if you are exactly within 10", you would march almost 10.1", touch the unit with your front rank and 2nd rank, and then move backwards 1.9" to clear the spacing rule.

    (I think that's correct, please correct me if my numbers were off, this is pre-coffee)
    You only need to touch with one single model, then you do 10 reforms, each ending up with a new model at the touching point. Then you move away. Finally you make sure that each individual model have made a legal move from their starting position to the specific point and then to their final destination.
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  • Zaanash wrote:

    Lagerlof wrote:

    Under light troops "If a model performed any action during the movement (such as Sweeping attacks), the distance moved is counted from its starting position to the point on the Battlefield where it performed that action and then to its final position"

    Same as Eggs posted, note that the distance is not from the starting position to end position, it's starting - where you did sweeping - end.

    So to be able to sweep, with M6, if you are exactly within 10", you would march almost 10.1", touch the unit with your front rank and 2nd rank, and then move backwards 1.9" to clear the spacing rule.

    (I think that's correct, please correct me if my numbers were off, this is pre-coffee)
    You only need to touch with one single model, then you do 10 reforms, each ending up with a new model at the touching point. Then you move away. Finally you make sure that each individual model have made a legal move from their starting position to the specific point and then to their final destination.
    Are you suggesting doing a reform that does not move the entire unit as a whole but only change the position of one R&F model at a time?

    I don't think that's allowed. Only models with the Front Rank rule can be moved about individually inside a unit when doing an Advance, March or Reform move, there is nothing stating you can move around your R&F models at will without changing formation.

    @fjugin Thoughts about this? Is it legal to do what Zaanash wrote?
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  • And I don't see anything that allows it.

    Front Rank rule
    "When moving a unit that includes models with the Front Rank rule, these models can be reorganized into a newposition (still as far forward as possible) as part of the move. This can be done as a part of an Advance move, March,or Reform move, and counts towards the Movement allowance of the unit (measure from a Character's startingposition to its ending position to determine how far it has moved). "

    If we could move around all models in the unit the same way it needs to be specified, but I think the reason it doesn't exist is because it have never mattered.

    We even had to change the rules for Characters that lost the Front Rank rule, like KoE Damsels, because when they lost the rule they couldn't move around in the unit anymore.

    This will need some investigating :P

    I'll be back.
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  • Maybe we are reading different rules but "...place it back on the Battlefield in any legal formation and facing any direction..." seems pretty crystal clear to me, unless "any legal formation" is defined elsewhere with specific restrictions
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  • zaanash wrote:

    You only need to touch with one single model, then you do 10 reforms, each ending up with a new model at the touching point.
    Sure, but these 10 reforms cost movement... 20mm per model in fact?

    I'll repeat (and correct me if I'm wrong) that reforms are NOT free when performing sweeping attack.
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  • Lagerlof wrote:

    Zaanash wrote:

    Lagerlof wrote:

    Under light troops "If a model performed any action during the movement (such as Sweeping attacks), the distance moved is counted from its starting position to the point on the Battlefield where it performed that action and then to its final position"

    Same as Eggs posted, note that the distance is not from the starting position to end position, it's starting - where you did sweeping - end.

    So to be able to sweep, with M6, if you are exactly within 10", you would march almost 10.1", touch the unit with your front rank and 2nd rank, and then move backwards 1.9" to clear the spacing rule.

    (I think that's correct, please correct me if my numbers were off, this is pre-coffee)
    You only need to touch with one single model, then you do 10 reforms, each ending up with a new model at the touching point. Then you move away. Finally you make sure that each individual model have made a legal move from their starting position to the specific point and then to their final destination.
    Are you suggesting doing a reform that does not move the entire unit as a whole but only change the position of one R&F model at a time?
    I don't think that's allowed. Only models with the Front Rank rule can be moved about individually inside a unit when doing an Advance, March or Reform move, there is nothing stating you can move around your R&F models at will without changing formation.

    @fjugin Thoughts about this? Is it legal to do what Zaanash wrote?
    I'll have to side with @Zaanash here. I even asked balancing team how they priced the unit, and seems they did it with Zaanash's interpretation in mind.

    It's a stupid rule, I will try to get it changed for 2.0 :)

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  • Well that's a boost I wasn't aware of despite reading and re-reading the rules.


    @fjugin when explaining to people who are unfamiliar with this, is it safe to say that it's now exactly like Terradons "drop rocks?", where only a single model needs to touch in order for the entire unit to attack?

    If so, it would be nice to be able to point somewhere (in the rules) for this, instead of not pointing at something which wasn't written.
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  • eggsPR wrote:

    Well that's a boost I wasn't aware of despite reading and re-reading the rules.


    @fjugin when explaining to people who are unfamiliar with this, is it safe to say that it's now exactly like Terradons "drop rocks?", where only a single model needs to touch in order for the entire unit to attack?

    If so, it would be nice to be able to point somewhere (in the rules) for this, instead of not pointing at something which wasn't written.
    Not exactly like terradons. Slightly worse than that.

    Basically, you measure each model individually. From starting point, to enemy, and then to end position. This total distance cannot be more than their move.

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  • fjugin wrote:

    eggsPR wrote:

    Well that's a boost I wasn't aware of despite reading and re-reading the rules.


    @fjugin when explaining to people who are unfamiliar with this, is it safe to say that it's now exactly like Terradons "drop rocks?", where only a single model needs to touch in order for the entire unit to attack?

    If so, it would be nice to be able to point somewhere (in the rules) for this, instead of not pointing at something which wasn't written.
    Not exactly like terradons. Slightly worse than that.
    Basically, you measure each model individually. From starting point, to enemy, and then to end position. This total distance cannot be more than their move.
    So you still can't congaline the unit, and with only enough march move to get one model on and then back do this right? Because then the models further back would have moved too far since you have to measure their movement on 3 points?
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