Wraith and reaper movement

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  • @fjugin So, if I wanted to reap a target with every wraith model, then every model would need to be less than or equal to 11" away from the target BEFORE ANY MOVEMENT BEGAN in order to reap, assuming I could have marched?

    If this is true, then how can @Zaanash interpretation be correct? If it's false, how isn't it like terredons again?

    I've been playing VC for years now and it's annoying that I can't get my head wrapped around this now.

    Perhaps a clear explanation could help us see what you are or aren't talking about?
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  • He is saying the same as me. See bold part.

    Zaanash wrote:

    Lagerlof wrote:

    Under light troops "If a model performed any action during the movement (such as Sweeping attacks), the distance moved is counted from its starting position to the point on the Battlefield where it performed that action and then to its final position"

    Same as Eggs posted, note that the distance is not from the starting position to end position, it's starting - where you did sweeping - end.

    So to be able to sweep, with M6, if you are exactly within 10", you would march almost 10.1", touch the unit with your front rank and 2nd rank, and then move backwards 1.9" to clear the spacing rule.

    (I think that's correct, please correct me if my numbers were off, this is pre-coffee)
    You only need to touch with one single model, then you do 10 reforms, each ending up with a new model at the touching point. Then you move away. Finally you make sure that each individual model have made a legal move from their starting position to the specific point and then to their final destination.


    So only models that start within 11" of target would be able to reap.


    I'm gonna create some figures to properly explain this I think. BRB

    Head of Rules Team

    Advisory Board

    Assistant Head of Rules Clarity Team

    VS_LAB team

  • so i dont understand... if the unit in my example cant reap, neither a unit in 11" cant becouse u need move to touch so 11+1 is less than final >1 " ... the only way is that all models in the unit are in 10".
    That seems to me an other nerf... if it is wraith become more useless!
    I add what is the benefit for them to be light troop?

    A clear explanation on reapers would be tnakfull ;)
  • Right, let me try with some images to help me.

    First case, how many people play this.
    You move the unit until all models overlap with enemy, than move out. This is not wrong, it's just not the most optimal way of doing this.


    Second case.
    Move the unit so that first model is touching enemy, Then do 3 reforms, where you don't change position of unit, only position of models within the unit. So after each reform, a different model in over the enemy. Then move out of unit. Distance is measured as indicated by dashed lines. Each model measure the distance from starting position, to point where he does an action (reaper attack), to end point.
    As described in light troops rules.


    Third case. The way all other sweeping attacks are done. Unit moves so that one model is over enemy, Then moves out.
    In this case, you would only get one reaper attack, since only one model has touched the enemy.

    Head of Rules Team

    Advisory Board

    Assistant Head of Rules Clarity Team

    VS_LAB team

  • When 2.0 comes out I would like an easier to understand and easier to use rule. Something like, Make it a 3" shooting attack that you can march and shoot that autohits. That would be so much better and yet everybody understands it. Or some other rule that's easier than measuring every single model. Measuring 10 wraiths in different configuration all moving exactly 12" doing a sweeping attack is a pain.
  • fjugin wrote:

    Lagerlof wrote:

    Zaanash wrote:

    Lagerlof wrote:

    Under light troops "If a model performed any action during the movement (such as Sweeping attacks), the distance moved is counted from its starting position to the point on the Battlefield where it performed that action and then to its final position"

    Same as Eggs posted, note that the distance is not from the starting position to end position, it's starting - where you did sweeping - end.

    So to be able to sweep, with M6, if you are exactly within 10", you would march almost 10.1", touch the unit with your front rank and 2nd rank, and then move backwards 1.9" to clear the spacing rule.

    (I think that's correct, please correct me if my numbers were off, this is pre-coffee)
    You only need to touch with one single model, then you do 10 reforms, each ending up with a new model at the touching point. Then you move away. Finally you make sure that each individual model have made a legal move from their starting position to the specific point and then to their final destination.
    Are you suggesting doing a reform that does not move the entire unit as a whole but only change the position of one R&F model at a time?I don't think that's allowed. Only models with the Front Rank rule can be moved about individually inside a unit when doing an Advance, March or Reform move, there is nothing stating you can move around your R&F models at will without changing formation.

    @fjugin Thoughts about this? Is it legal to do what Zaanash wrote?
    I'll have to side with @Zaanash here. I even asked balancing team how they priced the unit, and seems they did it with Zaanash's interpretation in mind.
    It's a stupid rule, I will try to get it changed for 2.0 :)
    Thank you!

    Everyone played it like your "Second Case" which is why I haven't been using Wraiths. I'd feel dirty to do it, but feel stupid not to (because honestly Reaping is very very difficult without doing this - 12' move and needing to be 1' clear of your target? Harsh)

    So do make sure this filth is removed :)

    It's a big nerf to Wraiths/Mounted Wraiths for sure, which is why we should look into solutions like allowing Wraiths to triple march in turns where they perform Sweeping Attacks. Would also make the unit way more interesting (if it gets too powerful, remove the AP6 or something)
  • MadBrainz wrote:

    Hi,

    As you all say, it's a weird wording for this rule.

    Would anyone care to explain if a Banshee can use Wail of Woe as a special close combat attack when reaping? Since it says "1 hit with special rules affecting Close Combat attacks".

    I think it may not apply the Wail...

    Best regards.
    Can make a normal attack with applicable special rules and not a special attack. So Banshee reap is a S3 hit.