Why is 9th age different to bloodbowl, warmaster etc..

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    • Qwerty wrote:

      This 2015 quote might help understanding those who dislike what this project has become:

      el_rey wrote:

      Team Denmark nominate for the vote:

      Name: 9th Age
      Description: A community-driven project, directed by members with experience on the most widely accepted comp systems: Swedish Comp and ETC Army Restrictions, with the collaboration of the whole community. It aims to make a new edition of Fantasy Battles, based on 8th but improved in design, cleaner in wording, and balanced internally and externally. It is starting by doing a full self-contained 9th Age Rulebook and continuing by updating all the Armies in the near future, with a possibility further down the road to include new units from either GW or other companies, as well as additional armies both new (Stormcast) and classic (Mercenaries)

      Indeed. It has changed wildly beyond the original design specs and will be changing even more soon, and usually said Changes have not Always been for the better
      I haz a blog! the-ninth-age.com/blog/index.p…-the-moment-aslo-batreps/.

      Mostly KoE and ID stuff. Now also some Void
    • Petterwass wrote:

      Hard to not be though.
      This is why the whole community can't be in charge of things. There is such a varied stance on how the project looks. I see things as moving in a very positive way with quite a few things that still need to be addressed. I have a lot of faith in the team to make things even better in the future.

      But some people always see the bad things. My army isn't fixed yet. These rules are still bad. My idea was never acknowledged.

      People need to let their concerns be known, but a constant berating of the team and toxic responses for not having their unique vision of the game used does get quite old after a time. It might be hard to be positive, but it's not hard to express yourself in a nice manner.
    • So, I once decided I was going to paint my whole house dark blue. Dark Blue is my favorite colour, so having fanclub blue Walls with a White ceiling and Black furnature was the big Dream.
      Told all my friends about it, they agreed that it was going to be cool.

      Then I got a new girl friend who had some actual experience with decorating and we went for light terra colours. Except for the toilet that I already painted blue.

      Now every time my friends come over and use the toilet, the first thing they say, he dude, when are you going to finish the rest of the house in blue?
      Frustrating as &#_@+ inside joke now for my friends.
      To bring it back to T9A. When it started it was a different project.
      We now have 300 staff instead of 8. We have actual lawyers helping out, and we have become more carefull since t9a has become for many a hobby strong hold. It has been explained a lot now why we keep moving away from 8th edition, and I dont feel the need to do so again (I can give links if needed though).
      Things and plans change. We have to, because the project is also changing from a small group to worldwide hobby for many.

      BTW I wonder how Coca Cola would react if I asked them why its no longer advertised as a medicine...since posts linking back to the very start of t9a reminds me of that a bit.
    • Blonde Beer wrote:



      BTW I wonder how Coca Cola would react if I asked them why its no longer advertised as a medicine...since posts linking back to the very start of t9a reminds me of that a bit.
      They'd say that the rules concerning medicines where tightener up because people died, so it would no longer be legal.
      I mean they could likely still market themselves as a "natural medicine" if they wanted but they're a well enough known brand that there would be no benefit in it for them.
      I haz a blog! the-ninth-age.com/blog/index.p…-the-moment-aslo-batreps/.

      Mostly KoE and ID stuff. Now also some Void
    • Honestly, the only time I ever see the "if you hate it so much, go back to 8th Ed." argument is when people state their disappointment that T9A isn't just 8.5th Ed. WHFB.

      And they are perfectly entitled to that opinion. The only problem is that it completely ignores the reality of the situation. It would be a lot easier if we could give you that, but unfortunately, it would be illegal and could get the entire project shut down. And while it is very easy for some people to say "I think it is worth the risk so long as I can get what I want", those people tend not to be the ones pouring countless hours into creating this game.

      Personally, I am very grateful that the project is moving how it is. I have had more fun playing v1.3 than I ever did playing WHFB 8th ed. Frankly, there are only a few things I don't like, and we know they are getting changed (magic phase, for instance).

      But that is just my opinion. I want people to be happy playing the game. But some matter of realism regarding what we can and cannot do would be appreciated. These changes are not being made to satisfy someone's ego. They are being made so that we can continue playing a great game for years to come.
    • Artegis wrote:

      Why is there so much fear to GW?... I do not think there are so bad as you describe....
      Facts, as simple as it is.

      GW has been enforcing its IP pretty harsh over the last couple of years, going even so far to sue a producer of books for children, just because of the term "Space Marine".

      They are a company and need to earn money as simple as it is. If they find somebody using their IP without paying money, they will get money from them cause of this. If they find somebody who is using their "IP" and gathered a huge market share, they will act again.

      This is natural, especially for companies like this.

      I mean, just imagine you would create a smart phone which looks exactly the same as the Apple iPhone (- the logo) and start to "sell" it. You will get a "nice" letter pretty fast...

      Greetings,
      Kathal
      "When four Kings abdicate their thrones, do you really have a Kingdom anymore?"

      I kind have a "blog" now: From Beer and Bretzle vol 2

      [ETC 2016 - ID] [ETC 2017 - WDG] [ETC 2018 - ID] [ETC 2019 - ID]
    • Kathal wrote:

      Facts, as simple as it is.
      GW has been enforcing its IP pretty harsh over the last couple of years, going even so far to sue a producer of books for children, just because of the term "Space Marine".
      In fact, in this ratehr small business, GW in infamous for being "IP-nazis", protecting their IP with uncommon and in fact sometimes incorrect zeal (they lost the aforementioned Space Marine case)
      I haz a blog! the-ninth-age.com/blog/index.p…-the-moment-aslo-batreps/.

      Mostly KoE and ID stuff. Now also some Void
    • I know, that they lost that case, but it is rather hard to go to court (even if you know you will win), when you have no money for it ;)

      Greetings,
      Kathal
      "When four Kings abdicate their thrones, do you really have a Kingdom anymore?"

      I kind have a "blog" now: From Beer and Bretzle vol 2

      [ETC 2016 - ID] [ETC 2017 - WDG] [ETC 2018 - ID] [ETC 2019 - ID]
    • Artegis wrote:

      This is the question in many of us....

      My opinion is that there is people interested in an alternative in order to fulfill their pride and lack of selfconfidence... They are not able to admit that "new version was a mistake" or to ask for forgiveness to all participant in this great forum. New rules (without asking), new magic (without asking), new format (without asking) and so on...

      The point where most of the community is disapointed and splitted has reached.

      Sooner or later there will be a new alternative for ETC and 9th age will be nothing.... But this is my pein my rsonal opinion ;).

      New edition of 40k is comming, and they announced that it will be the best edition ever... If it is true, probably most of the community would change to other game as it occurred in 5th edition. In that edition, fantasy was not good at all and 80% of people changed to 40k in order to have a balanced game... Obviously is not a fantasy battle game, but it fills your willings for playing with dices and miniatures.

      Proof: in my region with 9th age 1.0 tournaments were overbooking (32 places capacity). Now, hardly reachs half of the capacity...
      this is not the same in every country. In spain 40k has a huge fanbase but fantasy had even more. AoS has failed miserably, when they released more rules for AoS more people got interested in, but they were not core fantasy players.

      All active 8th edition people went to 9th age or stoped playing and sold their miniatures in frustration. 9th age is still raging in tournaments and players, atleast as i see.

      But to be fair we are all playing "warhammer" in our minds, spells might change or rules, but the names and lore are stuck and even more now that the PC warhammer total war was a big success.
      There are several fanmade rulesets like 8.5 edition and another one but they are alot less profesional than 9th age or are based on older editions that are not popular for many people.

      PD: About Warhammer:total war, I think GW is dumb as hell, that videogame is giving alot of exposure to an IP thats essentially commercially doomed. There had been other WHF games in the past but no one that succesful as this one and an expansion is going to come soon wich is hyping people i know havent played a single tabletop game in his life.
      They could had skipped the end of times and released AoS style game inside WHF lore, they might have retained more oldschool players and the news, in a richer, more stablished world.
      "If you kill one man, you're a murderer,
      if you kill 10, youre a monster...
      if its 100 youre a hero,
      if you kill 10.000 you're a conqueror!"
    • Kathal wrote:

      I know, that they lost that case, but it is rather hard to go to court (even if you know you will win), when you have no money for it ;)

      Greetings,
      Kathal
      Indeed. IIRC the woman in question got very lucky that a bunch of IP lawyers took a interest and took on the case pro bono.

      I mean, it was a case that GW never had a chance of winning, at all. But as said, you can't fight even spurious cases if you are broke
      I haz a blog! the-ninth-age.com/blog/index.p…-the-moment-aslo-batreps/.

      Mostly KoE and ID stuff. Now also some Void

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Petterwass ().

    • - Dad: Get in the car, boys! We are going to Disneyland!
      - Boys: Yay!
      a few mimutes later...
      - Boy A: What is this place? (reads the sign) Den-tist-la...
      - Dad: That's Disneyland in french. No time to waste gogogo!
      screams of pain coming from a distant hallway...
      - Boy B: why dad? WHY? You said Disneyland!
      - Dad: Shhhhhhhhh!
      - Boy A: Noooooo! What is the dentist doing in Disneyland??!! YOU WON'T TAKE MY...
      - Dad: OMG shut up you trolls!

      The Ninth Age in a nutshell.

      All jokes aside, 2.0 is around the corner, and things are getting hairy.
    • Petterwass wrote:

      1. in the last couple of months has this been improved with the various brainstorming threads
      2. though the normal response to any critique still seems to be some variation of "Go back to 8th if you don't like what we're doing, peasant!"
      3. Things have improved somewhat
      4. but there's still a long way to go when it comes to attitude.
      1, 3. Thank you for noticing! :largegrin: It was not obvious to convince everyone in there, glad to see that the efforts succeeded.
      2, 4. "Normal" may be harsh, but if so is your assessment, we need to work harder to make your assessment become "occasional". Long way indeed. ||

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    • Calisson wrote:

      Petterwass wrote:

      1. in the last couple of months has this been improved with the various brainstorming threads
      2. though the normal response to any critique still seems to be some variation of "Go back to 8th if you don't like what we're doing, peasant!"
      3. Things have improved somewhat
      4. but there's still a long way to go when it comes to attitude.
      1, 3. Thank you for noticing! :largegrin: It was not obvious to convince everyone in there, gled to see that the efforts succeeded.2, 4. "Normal" may be harsh, but if so is your assessment, we need to work harder to make the assessment become "occasional". Long way indeed. ||
      Granted the threads I've seen have been some that were already pretty heated so it might just be a artifact of tempers burning high but still, it feels pretty common.
      I haz a blog! the-ninth-age.com/blog/index.p…-the-moment-aslo-batreps/.

      Mostly KoE and ID stuff. Now also some Void
    • I can't get mad at people that want to play WHFB. It was a very fun game. I loved it. But we cant give that because we don't own it or have a license to distribute it. So, we have to go our own way. We don't have a choice. As far as saying that we are based on WHFB, we acknowledge that we are a game that has the same feel in that we are a R&F fantasy game. We have the same army factions for the reason that we want everyone that used to play WHFB with their miniatures to be able to field them in T9A. That's what the title is all about, you can use your same miniatures and play a game the has the same type of feel. Our coined phrase for that is "spiritual successor".

      As far as the comments that if we don't copy WHFB we will fail, I don't know what to say about that beyond, we will put out the best game we can. Honestly, if people came to T9A because they wanted us to be distributing the WH fluff, we just can't do that. Alternatively, if you love the fluff, you can play that in your games and ignore T9A fluff. If you came here for WHFB rules, I think you will find that we retain the same sort of feel.

      Will T9A survive? I don't know. I really like the game. But I see it finally catching on in the US Northeast. When the game started a couple of years ago, almost everyone in my area said, "fan made, not company supported, will never last" and because of that, they refused to even try it. Two years on the community is getting bigger and bigger and more active than any time in 8Ed. Now those same people are trying it and are getting hooked. Tournaments are popping up all over around here. So it is a slow start, but I see the community where I am seriously growing. So, time will tell I guess. In the meantime, I'm having a lot of fun playing this game.

      As far as negative responses to community input, I've have seen staff members treat community members poorly, and I've seen staff members treat community members very well. So, I would suggest that a blanket condemnation of the staff is not really justified. However, as @Calisson said, we certainly need to do better as there are always ways we can improve. Heated threads can happen too. The staff are simply community members that are volunteering their time to do stuff on the project and we all can have strong opinions, or get frustrated over things. But being understanding can go a long way.

      As far as taking people to the dentist, that was funny! However, back in 2015 the guys that originally thought up the idea in the summer and intended to do just what they said. But the darn lawyers came in and advised them otherwise. That resulted in a shift in where the project could go. Granted, if this was just a couple of guys doing some revamping of 8Ed., they could probably do that and no one would care. But a large multination project like this, can't fly under the radar. We need to be on solid legal ground and is defensible based on our circumstances.

      Beyond that, yes, I'm an advocate for community input and listening to them. For me, it's important that everyone has the ability to feel that this is their project. This is why there is an open door policy for staff members. We are happy to have anyone join. For those that simply don't have the time, and believe me, I get it when you say you don't, then I advocate for more community input. Even if your suggestions don't get straight adopted, I think people would be amaze at how much the community input is read, considered, debated and then decisions are made in view of all the input. Seriously, so much input is considered in the decisions taken. So input is not wasted even if it is not adopted, it is often instructive on the decisions that are taken. So to the community, I personally thank you for all the time and effort that you put into your observations and posts. To @Petterwass - keep the faith, we will try to improve.