It's time for Africa !

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    • Actually I am only waiting for the tutorial to dig into Latex for the Taphrian AB.
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      Well, to be really honest :saint: , I might find another excuse when the tutorial comes, such as could not find the time :bag: , but so far I am happy with this one :D .

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      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • I would be happy to have some PM conversions on the subject along with some of the lessons learned and some basic things I self-thought. However as @Eru eluded too, all the basic tools are already there. Its just understanding how they work and then copy/paste/rename to suit your needs.
      EdSteiner

      Tool Support - AB 3.x


      Si vis pacem, para bellum - if you want peace, prepare for war

      Download the current Army Builder 3.x 2.0 Dataset EN
    • Dread Traffickers got their first AB.
      Dread Traffickers of Maphria Island

      Tried to adapt DE to a fluff reflecting:
      - living overseas, not mainland anymore (and far rom mainland's politics)
      - even less bound by ordinary morals, even the DE morals,
      - more corsairish and maritime,
      and these corsairs have their own cult, and behave like the Mafia,
      - more beastmasterish and hunting/taming odd Taphrian beasts,
      with wider variety than DE AB, which allows to use GW's Idoneth Deepkin models and many more
      - more Medusish, with a character and a monstrous infantry.

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • EDIT: oops, posted in the wrong thread. I moved it to the Kegiz Gavem thread to keep this clean.

      I love the work for this continent, there is a lot to explore.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Little Joe ().

    • Conceptual notes :

      BEAST HERDS CHRONOLOGY :
      From the World Hymn, we are told that Beast Herds appeared from a very early age. We are not sure of their origins yet, but they were already a problem for civilization as far as the 3-4th Ages.
      I have designed the background story for the Veld Beasts as a nation of hunter-gatherers gone « wild » in reaction to the Vanhu « conquest ». This event is inspired by the real-world Bantu conquest of all Eastern and Southern Africa in the first centuries AD.
      However, if we stick to a timeline similar to the real universe, this would mean that our Veld Herds appeared not in the 3d Age, but in the beginning of the 9th Age or possibly towards the end of the 8th. So their race would be much more recent than the Vetian herds.
      Of cours, this might not be a problem at all if we suppose that the Vetian herds are also transformed humans, representative of primitive tribes who fought against the encroaching Elf/Dwarf/Avrasi civilization. It is a historical fact that Prehistory ended only a few centuries ago in some parts of Africa, whereas civilization happened much longer ago in Europe (especially if, by « civilization », we are not referring to an established urban civilization, but to farmer society, ie. the Celts and Germans are already « civilization » compared to Stone Age hunters-gatherers).

      HOLY LAKE FROM THE RIFT
      The holy lake is our own version of lake Victoria, a crack in the Rift, full of water. It is said that it doesn't have a bottom : going deeper and deeper, you don't find a bottom, but enter instead the Immortal Realm.
      In our world, lake Victoria is a source of the Nile river. Which would make that river magical.
      I wouldn't make river Napaat magical, as it seems to get its source from the Moon Mountains near Kegiz Gavem.
      But I'd gladly make the waters from lake Victoria run Westwards, to merge with the Jeliba river (the one that flows in Dogoko) at the point where both disappear in the desert, forming an Okavongo-style delta full of animals and wonderful beasts (for the Koghi army ;) )

      ORIGINS OF THE VANHU
      In the real world, the Bantu who came to colonize all of Central, East and Southern Africa came from somewhere in the Cameroon/Nigeria border. They were mostly adapted to the forest, then at some point, some tribes who lived on the edge of the forest, in the savannah-forest interface regions, gradually learnt to combine cattle-herding to their farming activities and from that area, spread out to all the other dry savannah regions, becoming more and more cattle-oriented as they reached dryer and dryer areas, as they pushed back the previous hunter-gatherer people who had always been there. Where do our Vanhu come from ?

      RANDOM STUFF
      – Reading that many cultures of Eastern Africa, especially cattle herders, have a fish taboo. They just don't eat fish, as it's considered unpure.
      Thinking of introducing such taboo for Vanhu, but also ––> what about Gavemites ? I feel they should have some interesting eating taboo as well, such as « No eat eggs » or whatever.
      – A General History of Africa stresses the importance of the « rain-maker » figure for farmer/herder societies of East Africa. Good that we got it covered in Vanhu book. Though this concept could be used to flesh up the figure of the « Holy Bard » we've been talking about for so long ?
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • Pursuing here the conversation.

      setrius wrote:

      Ghiznuk wrote:

      By the way, shouldn't we « officialize » @setrius's Naga army as part of the Taphrian project ? I quite like it the way it is. Since Naga exist on the Eastern Taphria coast (where the Copper Mountains meet the sea), no reason not to have some on the Northern coast, as well as on the Middle Sea islands. A threat to ships in the sea… Mentioned in T9A's own version of the Odyssey ;)
      I will be happy if this is happens.
      In the introduction made by @setrius, there is indeed a mention about Taphria:
      " The chief god of Naga is Seth, the Serpent God, whose influence has stretched from the Mountains of Gold and the jungles Taphria of into nearly all other lands."
      The pictures and naming in the Homebrew are not linked to Africa, rather to Middle East, but never mind.

      Noting that the Vanhu do not have snakes among ancestor spirits (ignoring the Giant Snake associated with Honey Badgers), it could make sense that those families associated with the Serpent God would become Nagas.

      The History of the Vanhu would be slightly altered, as follows:
      "The local bards, the Imbongi, relate old legends telling how some Ancestor Spirits have migrated away with the associated clans: Buffalo, Gazelle, Wildebeest, Baboon, Hyenas, Snakes… all gone; they are assumed to have settled elsewhere, and may come back some day. "
      The Vanhu living legend "Giant Snake" would have to be replaced by something else, as I see not a Giant Snake living legend take care of Honey Badgers if it has somewhere else a whole population of Nagas to be worshipped by and to take care of.

      Using @setrius introduction as basis, I would imagine
      - some of the Snake-ancestor Vanhu to have migrated across the Southern Ocean, where they would have been adopted by Sagarikans (these are the ones who inspire the pictures found in the AB). They would have been forgotten by the Vanhu until trade was established, millenia later;
      - and the rest would have settled around the upper River Mfumu (~Lake Malawi), being blocked donwstream by the SA of Nsisiboko.

      Interaction of Nagas:
      - Sagarikan Nagas not recognized as member of the Vanhu "ancestor" family.
      - DE Yema followers associated with the Sagarikan Nagas, and brought them back to Maphria Island.
      - DE Beastmasters exploring inland have found Taphrian Nagas; they were surprised but respect them as if they were feral relations of Yema.
      - The Vanhu have maintained for ages uneasy sporadic relations with Nagas in the Mountain of Gold, where large no-man's-lands separate them.
      - :thinking: Nagas could have become the traditional foes of the Beasts roaming the same territories along the upper Mfumu river; in wet seasons, Naga territory expands; in dry seasons, it shrinks; during draughts, Nagas retreat to the mountains and the rainforest, but BH suffer too.
      - Nagas regularly swim downstream and fight bitterly against the SA in the forest. This is where most of their war effort goes.
      - Vosenlanders colonizing the Mountains of Gold settled mostly in the above-mentioned no-man's-lands. They are a threat to the Vanhu - which have been fought in several battles -, Nagas - merely suspected so far - and BH - fought relentlessly.
      This new irruption forces the Vanhu, Nagas and BH to consider whether to reunite their separated tribes against a common foe. Of course, plenty of reasons prevent this to have a chance to succeed, but the Great Unification Myth is there.

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      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • You know, you don't have to explain everything on the basis of the Vanhu belief system.

      As I stated above, the Vanhu culture is fairly recent, dating from the end of the 8th Age / beginning of the 9th Age.
      It is just one culture among dozens of original cultures we are designing. It doesn't have to be at the centre of everything.
      I believe Taphria had a history before the Vanhu came to colonize the Eastern savannah.

      Also,
      – Veld Beast Herds are not « forgotten » Vanhu clans, but on contrary, their traditional enemies
      – Mukumbusu Apes, in my understanding, are not humans who became apes, but just that – apes. Apes who never became human.

      – Gnolls… don't know. So far as I'm concerned, they might as well be the result of some ritual such as the one who created the Vermin.

      – and so on.
      So actually, Vanhu is Vanhu, and all the rest have their own origin, not connected to Vanhu.
      The only thing that is connected, is the fact, in our design, that we specifically avoided giving those animals to Vanhu :D
      How well ordered are things, it might be worth having some in-world author ponder on it, such as « All this cannot be a coincidence, what a beautiful order, Mother Cosmos did things right, indeed ». :largegrin:

      In my understanding, the Naga could as well be a derivative of the Saurian Ancients, who took to the sea and got independance from the Coatl Lords. Or, without getting « political », just Saurians who got magically transformed into half fish after Sky-Hammer fell on their heads and got dropped into the Shattered Sea. They could have a magical ancient Saurian city deep in the Shattered Sea, and infest the neighbouring islands.
      (oh, my the Shattered Sea is a crowded place indeed ;) )
      In that regard, Nagas could have been inhabiting the seas of the world for since the 2nd Age, and many different races could have legends on them.

      Well noted the contradiction between Setrius's text and the pictures. I like the Middle-Eastern style in the pictures, and that is the image that stuck to my mind most. I believe we could relocate the text to fit the pictures. Make the Naga a neighbour of al-Qassar, as said, a city of coral, on the rocky shore between the Copper Mountains and the Middle Sea. Crazy huge waves. Crazy dangerous reefs.
      They make a living wrecking ships on the rocks and smaller islands of the Middle Sea, and are also able to attack inland.
      Plus, their race also exists on the shores of the Southern Ocean (Eastern Taphria, Sagarika), though it is not clear whether their culture is the same, given that there's no easy water route between the Middle Sea and that Ocean. Unless, of course, something exists, such as ancient forbidden underwater tunnels (dug by who ?) or a (half) dried-up Suez canal near Hanaphuk.
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • I try to keep T9A world as consistent as possible.
      Having links between the history of the Vanhu and some other Taphrian factions is useful, all the more that it explains why the Vanhu lack cattle or snake ancestors. Overall, consistency strengthen all the books we're creating.
      This said, it can be understood as a mythical explanation, and not necessarily as a historical one.
      For example, the Vanhu may have a myth that those who had ape ancestors became Mukumbusu, while historically Mukumbusu would have not the slightest link with Humans.
      It could become a mythic story added to the Background of the Taphrian campaigns.
      Note also that the Vanhu are not merely one faction among many likewise in Taphria. They are one of the few major factions, when other factions are modest in comparison.

      To have Vanhu and Beasts to be main foes is not incompatible with having a common founding legend. Think Charlemagne being consider a nation founder both in France and in Germany, which did not prevent bitter wars.

      Nagas as derivative of SA? No way. SA have no half-humans, only humanoids.

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      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • Calisson wrote:

      Naga as derivative of SA ?
      Again, in the Shattered Sea, everything is possible. :)
      I'm not saying they should be a « derivative » in the way that they should be considered as an auxiliary list for Saurians.
      I'm just saying, they could have some shared ascendency.
      If we accept that some humans can turn into half humans/half reptiles, why not consider that some reptiles could turn into half reptile/half human (they could be half elf or half ogre as well, so far as i'm concerned).
      Sky Hammer, and boom !
      GHAÂAÂAÂARN ! — The Black Goat of the Woods with a Thousand Young
      First T9A player in West Africa
    • While I like consistency, I think that should only apply to a guide book only known by the master of tales.

      Then have many cultures interpret what they see and find, add their own beliefs and cultural interpretation. Some races will have longer and more accurate memory but it is highly unlikely all were around all the time. It also adds a bit of suspense to not know everything.

      There seem to be electronic world building tools to keep track, that might help to keep a tight and clean ship
    • We could do Naga as elf-derivatives. They could be Sagarikan elves. Mostly because it tends to fight the fighting style I imagine them having, plus it means they could have dragon allies. Sea dragons?
      A summary of all proposed ideas from the VS LAB brainstorm thread

      Do you hear the Ratmen sing, singing the songs of angry rats?
      It's the music of Avrasi, who will not be slaves again!
      When the beating of your heart, matches the ringing of the bell,
      There is a life about to start when tomorrow comes!
      Will you roll all of your dice so that our banner may advance?
      Some will burn and some will run, will you stand up and take your chance?
    • How so? Naga mythology is old and well established and they aren't even the only ones who use them in pop culture.
      A summary of all proposed ideas from the VS LAB brainstorm thread

      Do you hear the Ratmen sing, singing the songs of angry rats?
      It's the music of Avrasi, who will not be slaves again!
      When the beating of your heart, matches the ringing of the bell,
      There is a life about to start when tomorrow comes!
      Will you roll all of your dice so that our banner may advance?
      Some will burn and some will run, will you stand up and take your chance?
    • Ghiznuk wrote:

      Naga could be everywhere in Sagarika, Tanzania, on the Qassari coast, around the Middle Sea islands and in the Shattered Sea. Especially if we decide that it's an old race created at the end of the First Age.
      Not consistent.
      Nagas are mentioned in official fluff to live in Sagarikadesha. See 9th Scroll #6. That's all.
      Everywhere else, they cannot be more than a remote faction hidden in few locations. The closer to Vetia, the less likely.
      Qassari and Middle Sea islands are too close to Vetia, Nagas would have been spotted.
      Nagas in the ill-known Shattered Sea are unlikely due to Daemonic prevalence there, and irrelevant for Taphrian fluff anyway.

      I would stick to the idea that Taphrian Nagas are linked with those in Sagarika, and those fewer living in Taphria are 1) located in places hardly known by the Vetians who write most of T9A fluff and 2) even in those places, they are not a dominant power.

      What remains open is whether
      - the Taphrian Nagas come from the Sagarika ones (which approach I adopted for the DE Yema variant),
      - or if Sagarika Nagas come from Taphrian ones (which I suggested in post #490),
      - or if they are totally independent (which would contradict the very Naga Homebrew AB we're talking to incorporate).

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • The Indian Ocean trade network was quite possibly the largest for many centuries, quite likely bigger than the Mediterranean trade. And that went down the African coast at least as far as Sansibar.

      And who better to be oceangoing than an aquatic species? Let the elves be slavers and colonists, and make the Nagas our traders.
      A summary of all proposed ideas from the VS LAB brainstorm thread

      Do you hear the Ratmen sing, singing the songs of angry rats?
      It's the music of Avrasi, who will not be slaves again!
      When the beating of your heart, matches the ringing of the bell,
      There is a life about to start when tomorrow comes!
      Will you roll all of your dice so that our banner may advance?
      Some will burn and some will run, will you stand up and take your chance?