Too much investment in Magic for sure. Legion Standard in KoR does nothing. 5 GW are not enough to reliably get the debuff. Not sure about BSB...
Don't forget to bring a towel!
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I think you have overinvested in magic. I would probably go without the Adept and see if you can make it work. That removes the sweet Alchemy attribute. I would consider removing the Master ang going for Book of Arcane Mastery on the Adept. That way you have five spells. Consider Magical Heirloom on High Prince in that case. With the new heal from Druidism, I like the MoCT
Kronos wrote:
Welp, now that our initiates got nerfed (and we lost the young dragon mount for some reason) I can’t take my double dragon list to my upcoming tourney.
So let’s give this a shot.
Highborn Elves
620 - High Prince, General, Light Armour (Destiny's Call), Spear (Sliver of the Blazing Dawn), Master of Canreig Tower (High Prince must gain 3 additional Learned Spells)
460 - Commander, Lion Chariot, Battle Standard Bearer, Heavy Armour (Death Cheater), Great Weapon, Royal Huntsman
400 - Mage, Wizard Master, Cosmology
280 - Mage, Wizard Adept, Pyromancy, Alchemy, Essence of a Free Mind, Order of the Fiery Heart
465 - 30 Citizen Spears, Standard Bearer (War Banner of Ryma), Musician, Champion
300 - 20 Citizen Archers, Musician
185 - 5 Elein Reavers, Bow
185 - 5 Elein Reavers, Bow
575 - 24 Sword Masters, Standard Bearer (Flaming Standard), Musician, Champion
360 - 5 Knights of Ryma, Standard Bearer (Legion Standard), Musician, Champion
340 - Phoenix, Frost Phoenix
195 - Lion Chariot
135 - 5 Grey Watchers
4500
Thoughts? Too much magic/not enough bodies?
Also, Legion Standard doesn't do anything for Ryma Knights. It only increases your ability to add ranks for rank bonus, but since you have no extra ranks it does nothing. -
BSB without Banner enchantments is a waste of a buff or two for this character in my personal opinion.
Your Lion Chariot could benefit from either or both of the Banner of Speed/Stalkers Standard.
Citizen Archers can use the Flaming Standard(35).
Consider an Aether Icon(10) standard on your small unit of Ryma Knights.
IMHO Phoenix is best taken with the Wardens' Bond (40).Failure is not an option. -
Too much magic, Master cosmo and Prince MotCT should be enough. It could be also adept with BoAM+Talisman of the void.
Kronos wrote:
Welp, now that our initiates got nerfed (and we lost the young dragon mount for some reason) I can’t take my double dragon list to my upcoming tourney.
So let’s give this a shot.
Highborn Elves
620 - High Prince, General, Light Armour (Destiny's Call), Spear (Sliver of the Blazing Dawn), Master of Canreig Tower (High Prince must gain 3 additional Learned Spells)
460 - Commander, Lion Chariot, Battle Standard Bearer, Heavy Armour (Death Cheater), Great Weapon, Royal Huntsman
400 - Mage, Wizard Master, Cosmology
280 - Mage, Wizard Adept, Pyromancy, Alchemy, Essence of a Free Mind, Order of the Fiery Heart
465 - 30 Citizen Spears, Standard Bearer (War Banner of Ryma), Musician, Champion
300 - 20 Citizen Archers, Musician
185 - 5 Elein Reavers, Bow
185 - 5 Elein Reavers, Bow
575 - 24 Sword Masters, Standard Bearer (Flaming Standard), Musician, Champion
360 - 5 Knights of Ryma, Standard Bearer (Legion Standard), Musician, Champion
340 - Phoenix, Frost Phoenix
195 - Lion Chariot
135 - 5 Grey Watchers
4500
Thoughts? Too much magic/not enough bodies?
I prefare to use commander on griffon as a BSB since its more mobile, and if you cut some points from magic you can put in place of chariot.
Yeah, 5 GW is not enough 6 minimum, I like to have 8 if I have points for them. 8 cost 189 so you can switch them directly for RBT then. But in many situations GW are much better then single RBT.
Since you have 2x S buff, I would suggest switching SM on FW, you get 24 of them with Flaming banner 10 points cheaper, just be sure to take druidism no. 1.
I also prefere MotCT Prince with HA+Dorac, Shield+WillowWard, Sliver, Lucky Charm, It's bit more expensive, but I think it makes him much better duelist DS9 does the job, if you have spare points you can also swith HA on Dragon Armor.Homebrew elfs:
drive.google.com/file/d/0ByGRp…1JxVHpz/view?usp=drivesdk -
personally, I'd only consider giving a banner to my BSB if I use the HWotF with his in-built Agegis save. In any other case, I usually go for survivability on combat BSB in regards to their equipment.
Borjnfer Wraith wrote:
BSB without Banner enchantments is a waste of a buff or two for this character in my personal opinion.
Your Lion Chariot could benefit from either or both of the Banner of Speed/Stalkers Standard.
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I see your point, I normally give my Fleet Officer 2 Aether Icons and the Obsidian Rock.
Dazza wrote:
personally, I'd only consider giving a banner to my BSB if I use the HWotF with his in-built Agegis save. In any other case, I usually go for survivability on combat BSB in regards to their equipment.Borjnfer Wraith wrote:
BSB without Banner enchantments is a waste of a buff or two for this character in my personal opinion.
Your Lion Chariot could benefit from either or both of the Banner of Speed/Stalkers Standard.
Failure is not an option. -
Much appreciated feedback. For my upcoming tourney I’m really wanting to finish all my games in the 2.5 hour time allotment. This means no time to sit back and react. Let’s just bring aggressive units that are fun to roll dice with and put the pressure on the opponent for once.
Highborn Elves
825 - Mage, Dragon, Wizard Master, Divination
730 - High Prince, General, Dragon, Light Armour, Great Weapon, Queen's Cavalier
330 - Commander, Giant Eagle, Battle Standard Bearer, Heavy Armour (Daemon's Bane), Paired Weapons (Shield Breaker), Glittering Lacquer
600 - 30 Sea Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion
525 - 35 Citizen Spears, Standard Bearer (War Banner of Ryma), Musician, Champion
575 - 24 Sword Masters, Standard Bearer (Flaming Standard), Musician, Champion
440 - 6 Knights of Ryma, Standard Bearer (War Banner of Ryma), Musician, Champion
340 - Phoenix, Frost Phoenix
135 - 5 Grey Watchers
4500
This is the way lads.Friends don’t let friends play soberhammer. -
I like the idea, @Kronos - there's just two things that I'd be missing: MR on your Dragons and a little bit of chaff.
What is everybody else bringing, and how do you lovely folks set up your magic these days? What are the boxes that y'all feel like checking and how do you do that? Please post current rosters and hard earned points of learning here
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Highborn Elves
620 - High Prince, General, Light Armour (Destiny's Call), Spear (Sliver of the Blazing Dawn), Master of Canreig Tower (High Prince must gain 3 additional Learned Spells)
305 - Commander, Longbow, Battle Standard Bearer (Aether Icon, Aether Icon), Light Armour, Spear, Queen's Companion (Moonlight Arrows)
220 - Commander, Longbow (Elu's Heartwood), Light Armour, Great Weapon
230 - Mage, Wizard Adept, Divination
585 - 40 Citizen Spears, Standard Bearer (War Banner of Ryma), Musician, Champion
390 - 10 Highborn Lancers, Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion
160 - 10 Citizen Archers, Musician
655 - 25 Lion Guard, Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion
340 - Phoenix, Frost Phoenix
330 - Initiate of the Fiery Heart
665 - 20 Queen's Guard, Spear, Standard Bearer (Banner of Becalming), Musician, Champion
4500
This is my current list, not played with this exact list yet, and I haven't got a tourney for a while.
Had one game and I had a pyro adept instead of a divination wizard.
Although I do feel there is somewhat of a need for the flaming swords in this list, I think something had to give, as without divination, the lion guard just don't reliably hit well enough.
My initial thoughts were to drop the initiate in lieu of another frost phoenix, however I'm going to persevere with it. -
After some play testing it appears as if cosmo synergies better with this list.
Dazza wrote:
I like the idea, @Kronos - there's just two things that I'd be missing: MR on your Dragons and a little bit of chaff.
What is everybody else bringing, and how do you lovely folks set up your magic these days? What are the boxes that y'all feel like checking and how do you do that? Please post current rosters and hard earned points of learning here
The thought is to shoot some light chaff off the table with the seaguard but yeah the Ryma Knights (that can potentially be S8 AP4) as well as Swordmaster block (potential S6 AP3) will shred anything in their paths while my 4 flyers dance around LoS arcs and create chaos.
I’ve had 3 red matchups so far in my meta for an upcoming tourney.
Vs WDG (wretched fam) 14-6 L
Vs ID 18-2W
Vs EoS (1+AS Knight bus list) 18-2W
Not enough access to flaming = VERY poor matchup vs wretched fam (2 x 6 wretched ones, 2 forsaken ones + damnnation rerolls..) and I was 1 spearman shy of being steadfast on bottom of 6 that woulda tied the secondary (for a 9-11 L)
This list slaps w cosmo.Friends don’t let friends play soberhammer. -
Thanks for your input, @Kronos!
@Derfnik87, could tell us a bit more about your character setup, please? I, for one, don't get the double Commander choice and I'm also not sure about their builds and gear. The Queen's Companion dude has a clear role but I'd probably drop the Elu guy and do something else with those 220 pts.
Lions with Divination support and the Quick to Fire QG block is definitely on my bucket list, so I can't wait to hear your thoughts on their respective performances! Cheers, d -
Playing this list on a GT this weekend
Highborn Elves
650 - High Prince, General, Griffon, Shield, Dragonforged Armour (Daemon's Bane), Lance (Nova Flare), Fleet Officer
560 - Mage, Wizard Master, Pyromancy, Light Armour (Gleaming Robe), Asfad Scholar
355 - Commander, Shield, Longbow, Battle Standard Bearer (Aether Icon, Aether Icon), Heavy Armour, Ring of the Pearl Throne, Queen's Companion (Moonlight Arrows)
610 - 30 Sea Guard, Standard Bearer (Aether Icon), Musician, Champion
390 - 10 Highborn Lancers, Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion
220 - 15 Citizen Archers
365 - Phoenix, Fire Phoenix
350 - 10 Lion Guard, Baleig Highlander, Standard Bearer (Banner of Becalming), Musician, Champion
330 - Initiate of the Fiery Heart
190 - Sea Guard Reaper
190 - Sea Guard Reaper
190 - Sea Guard Reaper
100 - Giant Eagles -
Basically the extra guy quite honestly finishes stuff off by doing 1 or 2 wounds, in my last game without him, two single models for my opponent would have been alive on 1 wound, so I don't think id want to replace those 220pts, plus he can be a last minute chaff piece for if people are breaking through your lines, then you arent losing the BSB etc.
Dazza wrote:
Thanks for your input, @Kronos!
@Derfnik87, could tell us a bit more about your character setup, please? I, for one, don't get the double Commander choice and I'm also not sure about their builds and gear. The Queen's Companion dude has a clear role but I'd probably drop the Elu guy and do something else with those 220 pts.
Lions with Divination support and the Quick to Fire QG block is definitely on my bucket list, so I can't wait to hear your thoughts on their respective performances! Cheers, d
The idea though is for neither of these commanders to be in combat, and typically that's been a success, for me at least. This is why they are relatively un geared (no armor or ward saves to speak of).
There is definitely an element of flavour with this though, and im certain that you could use that 220pts for something, (defensive gear on the BSB/banner on lion guard/wardens bond on phoenix etc), i would say you gain some stuff but lose some stuff, so its not necessarily objectively better or worse, but more a subjective swing thats good/bad against different things.
The divination/lion guard, I haven't ran since like 2020, and personally its the only time I think that lion guard are good.
I will hopefully get a game in the next week or two, and ill let you know how I get on, my opponent will likely be either VC,OK, or WoTDG, so there is a mix of stuff I need to be prepared for. -
I will play this next weekend:
Highborn Elves
705 - High Prince, General, Griffon, Shield, Longbow, Dragonforged Armour, Lance (Nova Flare), Diadem of Protection, Lucky Charm
285 - Commander, Shield, Longbow (Elu's Heartwood), Battle Standard Bearer, Dragonforged Armour
230 - Mage, Wizard Adept, Pyromancy
320 - 20 Citizen Archers, Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion
295 - 15 Sea Guard, Standard Bearer (Banner of Discipline), Musician, Champion
270 - 10 Elein Reavers, Bow, Champion
265 - 5 Highborn Lancers, Standard Bearer (Banner of Discipline), Musician, Champion
545 - 20 Sword Masters, Standard Bearer (Banner of Becalming), Musician, Champion
380 - Phoenix, Frost Phoenix, Warden's Bond
350 - 5 Knights of Ryma, Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion
330 - Initiate of the Fiery Heart
190 - Sea Guard Reaper
190 - Sea Guard Reaper
145 - 5 Grey Watchers, Champion
4500
Feel free to tell me what is good and/or bad
It is mostly based on what models I actually have painted. But I'm not really sure what I will build/paint next for this army. Flame Wardens and Lion Guard are high on the list 
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Cool list, I running a simular roster these days
I'd probably try to find points to make your caster a master, and maybe take another look at his lore choice: which of these lovely magic paths best supports your army (looking at you, Res3 Swordies).
In core, I always need a big-ish infantry, doesn't really matter what kind - they all are capable of doing something in the game. 2x5 Reavers are so much better than one big unit in most cases, and I'm also not sure about FC on a smal HBL unit.
I don't know how you feel about proxies but maybe the Swordmasters need more bodies, whereas the benefits of Warden's Bond, Banner of Becalming and a Champ on your GW are debatable
Hope that helps, d -
After evolving my last years ETC "Swordmaster Swarm" list for the Scottish Championship and having a decent go with it the list evolved even further to the following:
Highborn Elves
635 - High Prince, General, Longbow, Light Armour (Essence of Mithril), Spear (Sliver of the Blazing Dawn), Obsidian Rock, Master of Canreig Tower (High Prince must gain 3 additional Learned Spells)
315 - Commander, Longbow, Battle Standard Bearer (Aether Icon, Aether Icon), Heavy Armour (Protection of Dorac), Great Weapon (Supernatural Dexterity), Royal Huntsman
350 - 25 Citizen Spears, Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion
350 - 25 Citizen Spears, Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion
216 - 14 Citizen Archers, Musician
216 - 14 Citizen Archers, Musician
471 - 21 Flame Wardens, Standard Bearer (Banner of Discipline), Musician, Champion
455 - 20 Sword Masters, Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion
455 - 20 Sword Masters, Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion
455 - 20 Sword Masters, Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion
190 - Sea Guard Reaper
190 - Sea Guard Reaper
100 - Giant Eagles
100 - Giant Eagles
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After a rather rough tournament where I went almost last with it mostly being my fault, I will try out a modified Furion list for a online league and see how it goes. I am really frustrated by the new initiate, its fine, but double phoenix is so much better imho.
Here's the list, I dont have the chariots yet, but probably getting them in April.
Highborn Elves
710 - High Prince, General, Griffon, Shield, Dragonforged Armour (Daemon's Bane), Lance (Nova Flare), Diadem of Protection
590 - High Prince, Lion Chariot, Shield, Heavy Armour (Death Cheater), Great Weapon, Ring of the Pearl Throne, Obsidian Rock, Royal Huntsman
490 - High Prince, Light Armour, Great Weapon, Crystal Ball, Lightning Vambraces, Master of Canreig Tower (High Prince must gain 3 additional Learned Spells)
390 - 10 Highborn Lancers, Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion
260 - 15 Sea Guard, Musician, Champion
260 - 15 Sea Guard, Musician, Champion
220 - 15 Citizen Archers
365 - Phoenix, Fire Phoenix
340 - Phoenix, Frost Phoenix
300 - 3 Reaver Chariots, Champion
190 - Sea Guard Reaper
190 - Sea Guard Reaper
190 - Sea Guard Reaper -
Dazza wrote:
Cool list, I running a simular roster these days I'd probably try to find points to make your caster a master, and maybe take another look at his lore choice: which of these lovely magic paths best supports your army (looking at you, Res3 Swordies).
In core, I always need a big-ish infantry, doesn't really matter what kind - they all are capable of doing something in the game. 2x5 Reavers are so much better than one big unit in most cases, and I'm also not sure about FC on a smal HBL unit.
I don't know how you feel about proxies but maybe the Swordmasters need more bodies, whereas the benefits of Warden's Bond, Banner of Becalming and a Champ on your GW are debatable
Hope that helps, d
Thank you! Some follow up questions/comments
The mage:
I was thinking that the initiate made for some extra magic, but maybe with the nerf that is not true any more. I just picked Pyro because I like fire. My thinking is that I will mostly be casting Meladys and have fire as a extra damage dealer if needed.
Reavers:
2x5 costs so much more than the 1x10 though 270 vs 390
Any thoughts on that? Should I go for 2x5 anyway?
Swordmasters:
I have lots of unpainted swordmasters, so I could easily do more
Removing the stuff you suggest and add more SW gives me 27, (Or 21 if I also split the Reavers into two), is either of those a fair trade?
Lancers:
10 lancers + 5 Revers is not that much more than 5 lancers + 5x2 Reavers, could that be a better option?
With some tweaking:
Highborn Elves
695 - High Prince, General, Griffon, Shield, Longbow, Dragonforged Armour, Lance (Nova Flare), Diadem of Protection
285 - Commander, Shield, Longbow (Elu's Heartwood), Battle Standard Bearer, Dragonforged Armour
230 - Mage, Wizard Adept, Pyromancy
390 - 10 Highborn Lancers, Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion
320 - 20 Citizen Archers, Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion
295 - 15 Sea Guard, Standard Bearer (Banner of Discipline), Musician, Champion
195 - 5 Elein Reavers, Bow, Champion
555 - 25 Sword Masters, Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion
350 - 5 Knights of Ryma, Standard Bearer, Musician, Champion
340 - Phoenix, Frost Phoenix
330 - Initiate of the Fiery Heart
190 - Sea Guard Reaper
190 - Sea Guard Reaper
135 - 5 Grey Watchers
4500 -
General:
Prince(235) Ar(4+) Agis(4++). Attks 4xS5, AP(3).
Royal Huntsman (15).
Longbow. Dragonforged Armor+Destiny’s Call. Great Weapon+Cleansing Light. Dragon Staff.
BSB:
High Warden of the Flame (60) Commander(130).
Dragonforged Armor. Longbow. Great Weapon. Two Aether Icons. Crown of the Wizard King. Obsidian Rock.
Wizard Master(400) Aegis (3+). Channel (1).
Order of the Fiery Heart(15).
Light Armor with Gleaming Robe. Crystal Ball. Amethyst Crystal. Paired Weapons+Heroes' Heart.
CORE:
20 Sea Guard
Full Command+Flaming Standard.
20 Spear Elves
Full Command.
10 Highborn Lancers
Full Command+Flaming Standard.
SPECIAL:
15 Lion Guard
Balieg Highlanders. Full Command with War Banner of Ryma.
19 Flame Wardens
Full Command+Flaming Standard.
1 Sea Guard Reaper
Queens' Bows:
19 Queens Guard
Musician.
10 Grey Watchers
Paired Weapons. Shields.Failure is not an option. -
New
Had a 2-18 vs a DL list, I am really satisfied with the list overall! still learning how to use the chariots properly but the magic setup is quite nice, lets see what game 2 holds! Just need to keep practicing.
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