Orcs and Goblins - Tribes, realms and characters

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    • Orcs and Goblins - Tribes, realms and characters

      I play a WHFB orc horde since about 20 years and the boyz are still ready for another fight (I always hear them rumble in the box..."Shut up, I`m writing!"). So I´m very interested in the background of the greenskin race in T9A. I think that orc and goblin tribes live scattered all over the T9A-world with a concentration in montane regions and steppes / wastelands (maybe also forests). But what is about "orc realms" or even "orc empires"? I would prefer not only the typical nomadic and primitive tribes but also some greenskin realms with bigger orc cities and fortresses ruled by a caste of more intelligent and more creative "black orcs" / elite orcs. This would be, in my eyes, an interesting difference to the classical warhammer fantasy setting.
      If some parts of the orcish race were organized in bigger realms with an own culture, architecture, a script system and even some kind of strange philosophy it would give the whole greenskin species a more unique character (analogies could f.e. be found in the historical Mongol empire with Samarkand as its capital). Furthermore, I remember the "Black Blood Orcs" of the old Chronopia tabletop.
      Nevertheless, these more civilized orcs can still be as warlike as their more tribal relatives. So there will always exist some more "savage" orc threat everywhere in the 9th-age-world.

      What do you think? How should the background of the 9th-age-orcs be created?
      Fantasy author and tabletop fan
      alexander-merow.de.tl

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Guntrogg ().

    • First, let's collect what we have not the power to modify.

      Physically, Orcs are Humanoids: feet, no fur, no tail, prehensive thumb, downwards nostrils, very large head.
      They share necessarily more common points with Humans than with other Apes, let alone more distant animals.
      Compared to Humans, they are much more muscular, medium-size, with a very small nose and small ears, indicating that they rely on sight more than smell or hearing.
      They have prominent teeth, indicating a predominantly carnivore diet in the races' past, with most likely a current or recent use for display of aggressivity (like apes). Leaders have a tendency to be significantly larger, based on the models usually seen.
      Culturally, they wear clothes, create tools, throw weapons, live in large groups, use formation tactics.
      They belong to several sub-species or maybe races, Feral, Common and Iron Orcs. It is possible that other Orc races exist, but less widespread in Vetia.
      Assuming that there is a visible gender difference (as some models show), the ones who go to war are almost exclusively males. Females may well remain home with kids. There must be a childhood time, allowing the head to grow in size, until the Orc becomes an adult.
      Possibly for Orc long time ancestors, females specialized in fruit collection and kid raising, while males specialized in hunting, being a vital part of their diet, which explains their aggressivity.
      They are known to associate with Goblins and Trolls.
      These species have the very unusual trait to have greenish skin, which make them known collectively as Greenskins, however other colours are probably possible too.

      In the World Hymn, Orcs are mentioned on 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 6th Ages.
      That fair-eyed orc that Akrübad Who soon to come would take and bind ...
      The orc and beast our gates did press ...
      The orcs had numbers beyond count ...
      No hope had orcs enclosed by all To beasts they fell ...
      Orcs have been a threat for most of the Ages, but have never managed to win over everyone like SA, VS, ID, DL or Humans.

      On the World Map, Orcs are one of the very few factions not to have any identified city or stronghold.
      This means that the drawer of the map had no information about such a city.
      For this reason, we must consider that Orcs do not rule any large city.

      BRB p.142 lists them as "Barbarian Hordes", along with OK an BH.
      Brute strength, low cunning and an insatiable appetite for destruction are their weapons...
      Their fractious nature is our best protection against these unpredictable and dangerous races.
      Orcs, on the other hand, should never be trusted,...
      These green-skinned maniacs live to fight. Even their resting state is a small squabble. Orcs resolve every dispute with fists or blades...
      As varied as they are obscene, they blight civilisation everywhere.
      It is said that in the mists of time, before even the Golden Age, the scattered tribes were united under one great leader. Perhaps it was they who brought down the Saurians, though no record remains.
      A strong warlord can command a force of thousands; a truly great one could drown the world under a green tide.

      Other pieces of background hint that Orcs can be found in any continent.

      This leads to think that they are quite close to Humans, but the significan physiological differences must translate somehow into their culture.
      They prove able to gather powerful armies, but not build long lasting large cities.
      There is no reason to believe that they are dumb, otherwise they would not have been a threat for so long.


      -=-=-
      Now, we can determine which freedom we have.
      Everything whith is not written above can be considered.
      Bearing in mind that we wish to appeal to a majority of O&G players, of course, which is another limit.

      -=-=-
      As far as I know, there is not much more which would have been already developed by the BG team, which allows us to develop it by ourselves, and if interesting and popular, it could inspire the BG team in due time.

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • Calisson wrote:

      First, let's collect what we have not the power to modify.

      Physically, Orcs are Humanoids: feet, no fur, no tail, prehensive thumb, downwards nostrils, very large head.
      They share necessarily more common points with Humans than with other Apes, let alone more distant animals.
      Compared to Humans, they are much more muscular, medium-size, with a very small nose and small ears, indicating that they rely on sight more than smell or hearing.
      They have prominent teeth, indicating a predominantly carnivore diet in the races' past, with most likely a current or recent use for display of aggressivity (like apes). Leaders have a tendency to be significantly larger, based on the models usually seen.
      Culturally, they wear clothes, create tools, throw weapons, live in large groups, use formation tactics.
      They belong to several sub-species or maybe races, Feral, Common and Iron Orcs. It is possible that other Orc races exist, but less widespread in Vetia.
      Assuming that there is a visible gender difference (as some models show), the ones who go to war are almost exclusively males. Females may well remain home with kids. There must be a childhood time, allowing the head to grow in size, until the Orc becomes an adult.
      Possibly for Orc long time ancestors, females specialized in fruit collection and kid raising, while males specialized in hunting, being a vital part of their diet, which explains their aggressivity.
      They are known to associate with Goblins and Trolls.
      These species have the very unusual trait to have greenish skin, which make them known collectively as Greenskins, however other colours are probably possible too.

      In the World Hymn, Orcs are mentioned on 2nd, 3rd, 4th and 6th Ages.
      That fair-eyed orc that Akrübad Who soon to come would take and bind ...
      The orc and beast our gates did press ...
      The orcs had numbers beyond count ...
      No hope had orcs enclosed by all To beasts they fell ...
      Orcs have been a threat for most of the Ages, but have never managed to win over everyone like SA, VS, ID, DL or Humans.

      On the World Map, Orcs are one of the very few factions not to have any identified city or stronghold.
      This means that the drawer of the map had no information about such a city.
      For this reason, we must consider that Orcs do not rule any large city.


      -=-=-
      Now, we can determine which freedom we have.
      Everything whith is not written above can be considered.
      Bearing in mind that we wish to appeal to a majority of O&G players, of course, which is another limit.

      -=-=-
      As far as I know, there is not much more which would have been already developed by the BG team, which allows us to develop it by ourselves, and if interesting and popular, it could inspire the BG team in due time.

      Of course it makes sense that we don`t deviate too much from the"classic" picture of orcs in the Fantasy. For me orcs will always be a
      race of muscular and green- or greyskinned warriors. I think this the way the most fantasy fans want them to be (including myself). If it is already canon in the 9th-age background that there are no orc cities or even realms at all (just tribal cultures) than we could create a fluff around these facts. Indeed, I would still like the idea of orc realms etc. with cities and bastions somewhere because several fantasy and role-play systems show that "tribal-primitive orcs" and "imperial" orcs can coexist. Even the warhammer world knew some orc strongholds in the World Edge Mountains.
      The idea of female orcs is however great (I always missed this thing in the old Warhammer fluff). Why shouldn`t the greenskins have families? The theory of orcs and goblins being "mushroom-mutants" is just stupid in my eyes. Even Tolkien gives some smaller indications of orc families and wives; this is the way I would go by shaping the 9th-age background.
      Is the "fair-eyed orc" mentioned in the old text a "black orc" or "iron orc"? In my orc novel "The Antariksa-Saga" the noble caste of orcs is called the "grey eyed ones" in analogy to the leading Mongol noble clan under Genghis Khan who was also called "the grey eyed people".
      Fantasy author and tabletop fan
      alexander-merow.de.tl
    • I forgot to mention that T9A BG team is keen to develop a rather realistic setting. Orcs do have children. Somewhere internally someone has defined loosely Orcs' lifespan, AFAIK to be significantly shorter on average than Humans. This is a very defining feature when thinking about how an alien race lives.
      Also, IMO there is most likely an Orc or Greenskin district in Avras, the very cosmopolitan city inspired from Byzance.
      Akrübad is just a name with a meaning such as "the Unstoppable" in Orc language, adapted to English with loss of meaning. There is no asociated fluff, only the name to fit a poem, so basically you are free to make him what you wish.

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      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • Akrübad has lived in the Second Age, right? Is there an overview how many time has passed until the 9th age has begun? And would it fit to the already developed fluff if Akrübad were an orc warlord from the eastern steppes / wasteland who has first overran Longjing (Cathay) to finally turn west to attack Vetia? This could be a nice setting for a "mystical" orc leader of the past :)
      Or are there other famous greenskin warlords in the later ages who are worth to be mentioned in the history books of men?
      Fantasy author and tabletop fan
      alexander-merow.de.tl
    • Orc have been barely scratched by BG.
      I would imagine you to have total freedom to develop anything below major Historic or Legendary stuff which would necessary have left obvious hints.
      IMHO, you may develop at will interactions with Tsuandan, they would have recorded that in their detailed archives but it would not have reached yet Vetia.
      However, you have to understand first the Ogres, dominant in this part of the world, which BG is being much more developed internally as we speak.
      For that, you need to ask BG team how to get insight, otherwise I see not how you could avoid incompatibilities with BG currently developed.

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      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • maby not cities as in the empire sense, but fortresses should be possible. I think orc cities can be possible under the correct warlord. But without enough oppression, the citizans will squabble and fight and the city will colapse. So maby they are not on the map because they are short lived. They can grow fast because orcs like to be on the winning side and are drawn to such a place of might, but cease to be as soon as leadership fails.
    • Dahnasj wrote:

      maby not cities as in the empire sense, but fortresses should be possible. I think orc cities can be possible under the correct warlord. But without enough oppression, the citizans will squabble and fight and the city will colapse. So maby they are not on the map because they are short lived. They can grow fast because orcs like to be on the winning side and are drawn to such a place of might, but cease to be as soon as leadership fails.
      I would like the idea of some orc cities and castles with a specific and bulky architecture. Maybe in the nothern part of Augea? Or on the foot of the Sky Mountains? Orc tribes / realms could sometimes ally with Ogre tribes or fight them - a constant back and forth that would fit to the greenskin (and Ogre) character (The greenskin tribes and the Orge Khans love and hate each other). Common raids towards the Great Wall would also fit to an omnipresent orc and Orge threat.

      Another question: Are there any nomadic hobgoblin tribes in the T9A-world?

      Except for the eastern wasteland / steppes I would concentrate the greenskins in monate regions (White Mountains, Grimson Peaks, The Maidens, Barren Mountains; maybe some nomadic "desert orcs" around the Mountains of the Moon.
      All in all the greenskin should be divided in several sub-cultures: Nomadic Orcs, settled orcs (maybe with some smaller cities / strongholds), "cave-orcs" in the mountains. Orc pirates with some strongholds on the coast of the Sea of Gods could also be a funny idea :)
      Fantasy author and tabletop fan
      alexander-merow.de.tl
    • There are going to be Orc dominated areas and larger settlements though I am not sure I would call them cities/towns as those require certain elements to be called that.

      For example one of the areas where there are more Orcs and Goblins than usual is the southeastern part of Vetia.

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    • Hobgoblin are found with Infernal Dwarves. They have their own Chieftains.
      Their lore is not developed either, but we can safely imagine that if Hobgolins associate commonly with ID, there must be some free tribes not too far.

      Social Media Team

      UN Coordinator, aka UNSG

      - druchii.net contribution: The 9th Age - Dread Elves
    • Giladis wrote:

      There are going to be Orc dominated areas and larger settlements though I am not sure I would call them cities/towns as those require certain elements to be called that.

      For example one of the areas where there are more Orcs and Goblins than usual is the southeastern part of Vetia.
      Sounds good. Do you mean the region around the Barren Mountains or the White Mountains with "southeastern part of Vetia"? Sorry, I´m still not so familiar with the world map.
      Fantasy author and tabletop fan
      alexander-merow.de.tl
    • I primarily meant the White Mountains area but there are plenty of them in the Barren Mountains though that area is seen more of a goblin area.

      Please do consider that the framework of the OnG has been established and we working on the details.

      Advisory Board

      Background Team

      Art Team Coordinator

      Team Croatia ETC 2019 Captain ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HEROES AND VILLEINS OF THE 9TH AGE
    • Dahnasj wrote:

      Yes, I can imagine goblins don't like to be bullied around, and only allow this if they can profit from it.
      Yes, and I like cunning goblin bosses who cheat their bigger and stronger orc relatives :) Furthermore, goblin tribes with a huge mass of warriors can quite become a power among the greenskins. I`m curious to see if there will be different sub-races and cultures of goblins like "forest goblins" or "desert goblins" etc.
      Fantasy author and tabletop fan
      alexander-merow.de.tl
    • This is going to be a long post.

      Guntrogg wrote:

      The idea of female orcs is however great (I always missed this thing in the old Warhammer fluff). Why shouldn`t the greenskins have families? The theory of orcs and goblins being "mushroom-mutants" is just stupid in my eyes. Even Tolkien gives some smaller indications of orc families and wives; this is the way I would go by shaping the 9th-age background.
      I always liked the "mushroom-mutants". I do not think it would exclude some form of family bond. If, let us say, orcs are created by metamorphosis; after the egg stage then they might take a mushroom "larva" form and at a certain size the mushroom starts to produce a wax-like slime that covers the mushroom´s hat and drips to the ground in thick and sticky pillars. When the wax-like substance completely covers the mushroom it hardens and becomes warm to the touch. After a period of time the green skinned creature is fully created and breaks the pupa and emerge in the size of a "5 years old" orc or goblin. The reason for the creation of the green skin is for the fauna to spread across a larger territory than a fungus could grow its roots. Exactly have the eggs are planted is till a bit of a mystery.

      This would mean that the only way for the eggs to travel is for the green skins to do so. Which would mean that they are nomadic as of nature. The fact that there is little chance to trace parental bounds would mean that their society would have a limited understanding of inheritance and thus the likelihood of an individual´s will to create a dynasty would be less likely than in a human society. If they would be able to identify themselves as territorial siblings throw, let us say smell, then they would still have a tribal bound between them self. Older, wounded and craftsmen might shoulder the responsibility to raise and teach the young green skins they way of the tribe. But the lack of actual families might lead to some interesting societally norms.

      If we think of orcs as a creature that never stops growing then a shorter life span than a human is expected. Just look at the different life span between a corgi and a wolf hound. If we also assume that the orc´s brain keeps growing then one would assume that the biggest orc is the smartest orc. Ergo the big general is actual smarter than the average orc. It means that old green skins that have lived for a very long time, due to the aid of shamans or some other reasons, are actually rather wise. Even compared to other races.

      If most orcs have moved on, or are killed, close to a mushroom place then all the new born orcs would live in a "Lord of the flies" society, ie Feral orcs.

      In some places the orcs have founded a settlement. It will have a mushroom grove to sustain the population but even some other interesting features. Due to the birthing process their settlement would have mostly single resident household or "garrisons". The orcs would need, probably, twice as much food per day as a human due to their size, which would mean a lot of storage in the houses compared to living space. The extra amount of food per capital would mean that orcs would not have large settlements but would be nomadic and hunt or pillage for high protein food; unless they have a large slave population that would farm for them. It is hard to images an settlement that does not have a fighting pit.

      As green skins are considered night creates their dwellings would probably have mostly solid walls with a few small light and ventilation slips in them. Making their houses dark and solid for humans. Their towns would also be quiet during the day with breakfast coming at human dinner time and all trading scheduled during night and morning.

      Goblins would, on the other hand, benefit from forming large settlements. They are small and need less food per capital than a human. One would imagine that there are certain mushrooms that needs living roots to anchor their own roots in to live and that race would be forest goblins. In some places the great spiders (Who hate the smell of goblin fungus) have found a perfect balance in which they prey on the predators of the goblin mushrooms and then eat the new born goblins. In some places they have eaten to much and eradicated the goblins, and in some places the goblins have over populated and tamed the spiders to protect the mushrooms and the forest goblins have flourished.

      Cave goblins comes from mushrooms that only needs moister and dead cellulose to grow. They live underground and maintain mushroom farms to populate their dwellings.

      It would be interesting if Iron orcs (I think they are named after the fact that their skin is black as cast iron) are a miscalculated breeding experiment by the SA and the Hobgoblins are a successful breeding experiment by the ID.

      The fact that the green skins have a rather large and wax-like pupa means that a lot of societies believe them to lay eggs. A hypotheses that is supported by the fact that they do not have a unitary bladder or external urethral opening and uric acid is excreted along with faeces as a semisolid waste.

      Guntrogg wrote:

      Or are there other famous greenskin warlords in the later ages who are worth to be mentioned in the history books of men?
      Not officially. However, at the river fork south of the bog of beats, I have placed the two cities. One is the first great orc settlement and on the other side of the river is a human great city. They were both over run by the VS during the 7th age and the vermin held dominion over the ruins until 30 years ago. I have placed Wogher Bronze yaw, an iron orc general of considerable age in charge of the wester (Old orc) city. He has lost his under yaw in single combat and wears a casted bronze yaw with two great bronze tusks strapped around his head. His followers, the bronze yaws do the same. Khilebath of the Pale Moon clan is in charge of the eastern city. He is a nefarious cave goblin who has out play many a generals. Some say he is a shaman who, in change for his services to the dark gods, has been gifted with a wretched beast and some say he is a maniac who has tamed a great Gnasher. In the end he is a formidable opponent who has won against armies of the dark gods and against Wogher Bronze Yaw.
      But bellow the cities waits Splebbar the Pox spreader. The former vermin swarm consul of the twin cities. He is has been forced underground and he is not happy about it. Neither is Nihobi, the rat that does not exists . He is the Siccara Assassin who was ordered to kill Khilebath, but Spebbar intervened and said it would be better to wait for the two green things to kill each other. They did not, but they did cooperate to drive Spebbar and the VS away from the surface. As of this moment, Nihobi knows he will fulfill his mission, but he will first rid the underground empire of this troublesome consul.

      The post was edited 2 times, last by johedl ().

    • T9A cannot possibly endorse in any way the mushroom origin of Goblins and Orcs.
      For reasons which are easy to understand: as much as Orcs have been generic in Fantasy since Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, as much as Goblins have been in RL legends since before the Middle Ages, the idea of making them come from mushrooms is linked solely with WH and that is GW's IP.

      There is another reason:

      Calisson wrote:

      Physically, Orcs are Humanoids: feet, no fur, no tail, prehensive thumb, downwards nostrils, very large head.
      They share necessarily more common points with Humans than with other Apes, let alone more distant animals.
      There is no reason why they could not be mammals belonging to the Ape family. This hypothesis is the simplest and most logical.
      T9A endeavours to make our world as immersive and realistic as possible; to give O&G a fancy birth would be an unnecessary rupture of realism.

      -=-=-
      This said,

      @johedl, nothing prevents you to have in your stories the in-world population to believe that O&G come from mushrooms.
      Nothing prevents your own O&G to actually come from mushrooms while the surrounding population believes that they have families.
      Nothing prevents your own O&G to actually come from mushrooms and the surrounding population knows that.
      You are totally entitled to discuss in our forums with your own mushroom-birth theories.

      It is only the official T9A background which cannot endorse the mushroom birth, not even as a legend for children (or at most, to make a pun).

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    • @johedl I loke a lot of what you are saying, mainly about the settlements and the lifespan.
      For orcs to lay eggs would make sense. Pregnant women are very vulnerable, which would be a liability in an aggressive society. Due to the evolution, carrying time could have shortenend over time until the point of labour short after conseption.

      For the dynasty thing, I think orcs will have the same instinct to protect their genes, and therefore it would make sense that the alpha-male would have the right to copulate with the women of the tribe, just like a lot of animal tribes/herds/groups/packs.
    • For me Orcs and Goblins are (and have always been) "humanoids". Have they the same roots as the human race? I think we don`t know it but they are no "mushrooms". In my eyes it would make sense to keep the origins of the greenskin race below some kind of "shadow of the past". They are just there and live in family communities and of course bigger tribes.
      When GW invented the mushroom-theory in this old Orc Kodex for WH 40000 (5. Edition?) I was very confused because this picture of orcs contradicts ALL other descriptions of the greenskins in other fantasy- and role-play systems. In my novel series called "The Antariksa Saga" the orc and goblin women are called "Cramogg"; they live in Cramogg quarters (in orc cities) or Cramogg camps (in tribal cultures) totally seperated from the male population. Only in the "mating season" once every year the different sexes meet to reproduce. After that it is the task of the female orcs to raise the new generation. In the seventh year the young male orcs leave the Cramogg camp and come to the warrior clans where they learn to be a part of a society of hunters, workers and warriors.
      Orc warlord Grimzhag decribes it with: "We (the male orcs) fight and build while the cramogg bear and feed. This is the will of the gods."
      A concept similar to this appeals to me much better than mushroom-orcs. Although, the Warhammer novel "Skarsnik" was quite funny and entertaining to read (the live of a mushroom-born goblin is described there) it was not the thing I imagine referring the greenskin reproduction.
      Fantasy author and tabletop fan
      alexander-merow.de.tl

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Guntrogg ().

    • Calisson wrote:

      T9A cannot possibly endorse in any way the mushroom origin of Goblins and Orcs.
      For reasons which are easy to understand: as much as Orcs have been generic in Fantasy since Tolkien's Lord of the Rings, as much as Goblins have been in RL legends since before the Middle Ages, the idea of making them come from mushrooms is linked solely with WH and that is GW's IP.

      There is another reason:
      There is no reason why they could not be mammals belonging to the Ape family. This hypothesis is the simplest and most logical.
      T9A endeavours to make our world as immersive and realistic as possible; to give O&G a fancy birth would be an unnecessary rupture of realism.
      Dropping the mushroom origin seems fair given your argument. However I still think that the orcs and goblins should not be mammals. mammals means that they would breast feed their infants in some form which I have not envisioned them to do. Baby greenskins should have teeth and eat solid food. If we leave metamorphosis out then egg laying is an interesting way to go. If one wanted them to give birth to live children then it would still works as some egg laying creatures do so by carrying the egg till completion.

      More orcish would be, in my view, to have the tribes handle egg storing in different maners. Most tribes would put all eggs laid in the same season at a safe place and guard it until hatching. Those eggs that do not hatch are discarded as potential weaklings and the children are raised collectively by the tribe as no one knows who child is who's. Some more civilized tribes that lives in settlements have special egg buildings or caves. There might be a separate part of the settlement that children are raised in by some females, handicapped veterans and schamans. If this part of the settlement is the best protected part, due to the need for protection of the children, then it might also be contain the homes of the tribes leaders and an honored place to serve.
      Some green skins lives together with humans (in example EoS) in special sections of cities and have adopted the cultural norm of keeping their own eggs in a special room in their house and then raising their children more like a human family.

      It could also mean that tribes who have suffered losses in battle or due to hard times might try to raid an egg site and steal the eggs to increase their numbers to survive in the long run. Eggs might even be used as payment in war. Dwarves and humans might try to rot out egg nests and destroy them to keep away future orcs and the vermin swarm might steal and trade with the eggs as priced goods used for eating and in alchemy.

      It might be that the Saurians manipulated some orc eggs to created Iron Orcs in an attempt to create slave soldiers that could be spawned faster than their ordinary soldiers. This might have been to use against a daemon invasion when saurian soldiers were needed to guard the temple cities and slaves and more troops were needed with urgens. They succeeded in the war but accidentally planted the seed for a successful future rebellion against them self when they continued the breeding of Iron Orcs after the failed invasion. The Iron Orc portion of the slave population started to outgrow its usefulness and the Saurians decided to stop the breeding which in turn sparked a rebellion that was joined by the other enslaved races.

      Having them laying eggs would make them different from other races and not just another form of humans with different life span. It would still mean that there are males and females. They would have parental feelings like humans or elves. Females would not need bigger breasts and could look more like males to other races. Not having to carry a child would mean that the females could be more active in wars and other physical activities. Seasonal hatching feasts for tribes would be a special cultural mark that is relatable for us and yet different enough to be exotic.
      Their different origin would explain their lack of hair due to no ape ancestry. No risk for crossbreeding with humans. An unknown or forgotten egg nest would explain a sudden incursion of feral orcs some time after a successful campaign have driven away unwanted orc presens in an area.

      And finally, no mammals are green.