Father Chaos/4Gods/7sins

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    • Marcos24 wrote:

      Kaitin wrote:

      Well, that square thing under the model, sadly.I know it, that was a question in case of anyone involved visiting this thread. There is a lot of mythological material in the history of mankind to work with, there should be another reasons.
      If this would be my choice, I would choose Scandinavian mythology. Aspiring Champion of Thor, Chosen Riders of Freya, Sorcerer with mark of Loki, why not?
      I personally love the relation to the 7 sins because to me it’s ultimately fresh yet familiar. Another Norse related theme would have irritated me in thinking “this again...? Boring, and I’m not interested”. So it comes down to this: some people like it, you and others don’t. Why change it to what you want, while disregarding others?
      This is true, there is no need to force something to a specific persons thought. I dislike the 7 sins concept and I am fine with it being excecuted since others might enjoy it. However I can still keep my opinion, play the game for the interaction with others and state my opinion in a manner so that it wont offend even the creators of said Art and fluff ^^. Atleast thats my goal and opinion.

      Cheers
    • S

      Kaitin wrote:

      I can't find a perspective to look at current background and find something except evil dudes being evil just because.
      Sorry but chaos warriors in Warhammer were just that. Evil dudes living in wasteland and plotting the destruction of the whole worl, which they accomplished in the end too.

      Chaos warriors were so one dimensional that I wonder why I stick with them so long. Maybe because I tried to find some purpose for their existence beyond the 'we are evil and we kill people because that's what we do because we are evil' premise.

      9th age does provide a meaningful place for them in the world.
      All things wargaming. My super entertaining hobby blog where anything wargaming related can happen.

      "I heard a television interviewer once suggest that the use of dice made battlegaming on par with Snakes and Ladders and such like games of change. Well, he was being just stupid, or trying to take a rise out of his guest. It is in fact the imponderable which does give reality to 'Battle' and, as we shall see, does cause the players to make proper allowance for the unlikely or even seemingly impossible, which, as we read, did happen surprisingly frequently in the annals of war."
      -Charles Grant
    • jirga wrote:

      S

      Kaitin wrote:

      I can't find a perspective to look at current background and find something except evil dudes being evil just because.
      Sorry but chaos warriors in Warhammer were just that. Evil dudes living in wasteland and plotting the destruction of the whole worl, which they accomplished in the end too.
      Chaos warriors were so one dimensional that I wonder why I stick with them so long. Maybe because I tried to find some purpose for their existence beyond the 'we are evil and we kill people because that's what we do because we are evil' premise.

      9th age does provide a meaningful place for them in the world.
      Thats just your perception. I have opposite opinion. I see WDG background being way more narrow than WOC one. Matter of taste still.
      And why "were"? Warriors of Chaos are still out there.
    • I would imagine they have a post modern deconstructed system of amorality. They genuinely reject your morality and replace it with their own.

      Lust over Chastity
      Gluttony over Temperance
      Greed over Charity
      Sloth over Diligence
      Wrath over Patience
      Envy over Kindness
      Pride over Humility

      As an example in our own society do we not see sins dressed up as virtues? I don't want to be overly political or philosophical but social justice ideology seems to be actively engaged in justifying and rewarding these traditional bad behaviors.

      To be clear I am not saying traditional Christian virtues are good and these new secular values are bad, just that they are opposed. For example Christian thought says to love your enemies and the new ideology says you should hate your oppressor. Welcome to wrath over patience.

      The post was edited 1 time, last by Col. Tartleton ().

    • Marcos24 wrote:

      Kaitin wrote:

      Well, that square thing under the model, sadly.I know it, that was a question in case of anyone involved visiting this thread. There is a lot of mythological material in the history of mankind to work with, there should be another reasons.
      If this would be my choice, I would choose Scandinavian mythology. Aspiring Champion of Thor, Chosen Riders of Freya, Sorcerer with mark of Loki, why not?
      I personally love the relation to the 7 sins because to me it’s ultimately fresh yet familiar. Another Norse related theme would have irritated me in thinking “this again...? Boring, and I’m not interested”. So it comes down to this: some people like it, you and others don’t. Why change it to what you want, while disregarding others?
      Someone already did that. You know, changed background to what they wanted, while disregarding others. Thats how 7 sins occured.
    • Col. Tartleton wrote:

      I would imagine they have a post modern deconstructed system of amorality. They genuinely reject your morality and replace it with their own.

      Lust over Chastity
      Gluttony over Temperance
      Greed over Charity
      Sloth over Diligence
      Wrath over Patience
      Envy over Kindness
      Pride over Humility

      As an example in our own society do we not see sins dressed up as virtues? I don't want to be overly political or philosophical but social justice ideology seems to be actively engaged in justifying and rewarding these traditional bad behaviors.

      To be clear I am not saying traditional Christian virtues are good and these new secular values are bad, just that they are opposed. For example Christian thought says to love your enemies and the new ideology says you should hate your oppressor. Welcome to wrath over patience.
      I really liked how you explained the listing. I hope that gets used extensively to justify things in background.

      I was just meh on the 7, more because the nightmare in rules. But it's just different not worse in terms of fluff.
    • Kaitin wrote:

      Marcos24 wrote:

      Kaitin wrote:

      Well, that square thing under the model, sadly.I know it, that was a question in case of anyone involved visiting this thread. There is a lot of mythological material in the history of mankind to work with, there should be another reasons.
      If this would be my choice, I would choose Scandinavian mythology. Aspiring Champion of Thor, Chosen Riders of Freya, Sorcerer with mark of Loki, why not?
      I personally love the relation to the 7 sins because to me it’s ultimately fresh yet familiar. Another Norse related theme would have irritated me in thinking “this again...? Boring, and I’m not interested”. So it comes down to this: some people like it, you and others don’t. Why change it to what you want, while disregarding others?
      Someone already did that. You know, changed background to what they wanted, while disregarding others. Thats how 7 sins occured.
      Yeah.. they started this project, needed to make a decision, and chose to go that route. Some people didn't like it, and some people do. It's done and i can guarantee you that at this point, after all the work placed into the art and writing and rules, it won't change. So are you just venting your feelings or do you actually expect it to change? Because i'll understand one but laugh at the other

      And as for disregarding others.. Give me a break. They believe it was necessary to change the background, and so they did, do you expect them to ask every... single... player in the world that would potentially play T9A which direction they'd want? AND then make everyone happy? Obviously not and its ridiculous to think so, so they made a decision, and now AFTER the fact, SOME people are complaining. I mean, if there was an overwhelming message from the community prior to making this decision but after mention of a change in the overall background of T9A, that said "we understand it must change but at the very least just keep for gods/sub-factions for WDG" then you could easily say "we told you and you ignored us" but that didn't happen, not even close. Now its done, and you can just ignore it and enjoy your old WHF chaos army vs a T9A army, or build your army's fluff to fit within T9A world.
    • Col. Tartleton wrote:

      I mean Lust is Slaanesh, Wrath is Khorne, Sloth is Nurgle, Envy is Tzeentch. More or less. Then we get three new ones. Good deal says I.

      This is not accurate.

      Models players are likely to own spread across all Seven Dark Gods. Most notably, core troops are unaligned and can follow any God - because the numberless legions of the Dark Gods are chaotic and *variable*.

      The Seven are great. We have not had a chance to show them off fully, but the resonance of the seven sins is powerful.

      They are not a knockoff of someone else's IP, but a original pantheon with deep mythological roots and many hours of work behind them. I think once y'all get used to them, y'all will love them.


      And in another note, I suggested Myrmidons, *not* thinking of greek warriors, but demonic warriors (as noted Manicheism - I was mashing wikipedia and google hard looking for good names :) ). That said, Myrmidons are demonic quasi-elite soldiers, their heavy hitting core unit - the name is not a terrible description of their role even under the other interpretation.

      Background Team

    • Marcos24 wrote:

      Kaitin wrote:

      Marcos24 wrote:

      Kaitin wrote:

      Well, that square thing under the model, sadly.I know it, that was a question in case of anyone involved visiting this thread. There is a lot of mythological material in the history of mankind to work with, there should be another reasons.
      If this would be my choice, I would choose Scandinavian mythology. Aspiring Champion of Thor, Chosen Riders of Freya, Sorcerer with mark of Loki, why not?
      I personally love the relation to the 7 sins because to me it’s ultimately fresh yet familiar. Another Norse related theme would have irritated me in thinking “this again...? Boring, and I’m not interested”. So it comes down to this: some people like it, you and others don’t. Why change it to what you want, while disregarding others?
      Someone already did that. You know, changed background to what they wanted, while disregarding others. Thats how 7 sins occured.
      Yeah.. they started this project, needed to make a decision, and chose to go that route. Some people didn't like it, and some people do. It's done and i can guarantee you that at this point, after all the work placed into the art and writing and rules, it won't change. So are you just venting your feelings or do you actually expect it to change? Because i'll understand one but laugh at the other
      And as for disregarding others.. Give me a break. They believe it was necessary to change the background, and so they did, do you expect them to ask every... single... player in the world that would potentially play T9A which direction they'd want? AND then make everyone happy? Obviously not and its ridiculous to think so, so they made a decision, and now AFTER the fact, SOME people are complaining. I mean, if there was an overwhelming message from the community prior to making this decision but after mention of a change in the overall background of T9A, that said "we understand it must change but at the very least just keep for gods/sub-factions for WDG" then you could easily say "we told you and you ignored us" but that didn't happen, not even close. Now its done, and you can just ignore it and enjoy your old WHF chaos army vs a T9A army, or build your army's fluff to fit within T9A world.
      A fluffed army based on stories is much more enjoying than one that is not. #personalopinion

      I just think of it like this...before there were 4 God's, there were more and they fought one another for the right to exist. Khorne even wore skulls from God's he killed. So we are just playing the game before there were 4. 7 still exist and we are seeing it play out. THE GREAT GAME, before there were just 4.

      Just my way of justifying it.
    • Col. Tartleton wrote:

      I would imagine they have a post modern deconstructed system of amorality. They genuinely reject your morality and replace it with their own.

      Lust over Chastity
      Gluttony over Temperance
      Greed over Charity
      Sloth over Diligence
      Wrath over Patience
      Envy over Kindness
      Pride over Humility

      As an example in our own society do we not see sins dressed up as virtues? I don't want to be overly political or philosophical but social justice ideology seems to be actively engaged in justifying and rewarding these traditional bad behaviors.

      To be clear I am not saying traditional Christian virtues are good and these new secular values are bad, just that they are opposed. For example Christian thought says to love your enemies and the new ideology says you should hate your oppressor. Welcome to wrath over patience.

      Mmmm. Why NOT indulge your passions?
      Why NOT have another cake?
      Why NOT keep your profits?
      Why NOT take a few extra breaks?
      Why NOT smite some jerks who have it coming?
      Why NOT resent the luckier sods who do not deserve their success?
      Why NOT take pride in your achievements?

      All very human temptations.

      Background Team

    • WhammeWhamme wrote:

      Col. Tartleton wrote:

      I would imagine they have a post modern deconstructed system of amorality. They genuinely reject your morality and replace it with their own.

      Lust over Chastity
      Gluttony over Temperance
      Greed over Charity
      Sloth over Diligence
      Wrath over Patience
      Envy over Kindness
      Pride over Humility

      As an example in our own society do we not see sins dressed up as virtues? I don't want to be overly political or philosophical but social justice ideology seems to be actively engaged in justifying and rewarding these traditional bad behaviors.

      To be clear I am not saying traditional Christian virtues are good and these new secular values are bad, just that they are opposed. For example Christian thought says to love your enemies and the new ideology says you should hate your oppressor. Welcome to wrath over patience.
      Mmmm. Why NOT indulge your passions?
      Why NOT have another cake?
      Why NOT keep your profits?
      Why NOT take a few extra breaks?
      Why NOT smite some jerks who have it coming?
      Why NOT resent the luckier sods who do not deserve their success?
      Why NOT take pride in your achievements?

      All very human temptations.
      Glad you are in the background team... I like this very much.
    • WhammeWhamme wrote:

      And in another note, I suggested Myrmidons, *not* thinking of greek warriors, but demonic warriors (as noted Manicheism - I was mashing wikipedia and google hard looking for good names ). That said, Myrmidons are demonic quasi-elite soldiers, their heavy hitting core unit - the name is not a terrible description of their role even under the other interpretation.
      Might be, but there is already an existing tie to the name that overshadows it :/. Even if the name might be fitting looking at real world mythology is this really the best approach? That there needs to be a real world connection for it to be plausible? Cant you use all that talent you have and create something that doesnt scream of greek loyalty warrior commanded by Achilles?
      There could be made several similar connections for many factions I guess where something has a mythological connection that is overshadowed by another meaning and thus dulling its origin. To draw a hard connection that leaves a sour taste the swastika and many ancient usaged of the original usage is an example.
    • Marcos24 wrote:

      Yeah.. they started this project, needed to make a decision, and chose to go that route. Some people didn't like it, and some people do. It's done and i can guarantee you that at this point, after all the work placed into the art and writing and rules, it won't change. So are you just venting your feelings or do you actually expect it to change? Because i'll understand one but laugh at the other
      And as for disregarding others.. Give me a break. They believe it was necessary to change the background, and so they did, do you expect them to ask every... single... player in the world that would potentially play T9A which direction they'd want? AND then make everyone happy? Obviously not and its ridiculous to think so, so they made a decision, and now AFTER the fact, SOME people are complaining. I mean, if there was an overwhelming message from the community prior to making this decision but after mention of a change in the overall background of T9A, that said "we understand it must change but at the very least just keep for gods/sub-factions for WDG" then you could easily say "we told you and you ignored us" but that didn't happen, not even close. Now its done, and you can just ignore it and enjoy your old WHF chaos army vs a T9A army, or build your army's fluff to fit within T9A world.
      That's excuses. In the end, it is the same thing you were blaming me.

      About everyone being happy... I stopped to discuss such things on this forum because no one wants to hear objections here. Stopped playing WDG too. Count me in the ranks of those happy people.
    • Their army was killed when games workshop killed old world.

      You can't blame people if they want to create something new rather than a direct copy from the game that doesn't exist anymore.

      9th age choose to create their own world with it's own background early on in this endeavor. Which was a good decision. Obviously that doesn't please everyone but for the future of this game it was the only meaningful choice.
      All things wargaming. My super entertaining hobby blog where anything wargaming related can happen.

      "I heard a television interviewer once suggest that the use of dice made battlegaming on par with Snakes and Ladders and such like games of change. Well, he was being just stupid, or trying to take a rise out of his guest. It is in fact the imponderable which does give reality to 'Battle' and, as we shall see, does cause the players to make proper allowance for the unlikely or even seemingly impossible, which, as we read, did happen surprisingly frequently in the annals of war."
      -Charles Grant