Father Chaos/4Gods/7sins

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    • Father Chaos/4Gods/7sins

      Do we still got our Chaos-Apoc, Khorn-War/Tzeentch-Death/Nurgle-Plague/Slaanesh-Hunger & 7sins as their rebelled messengers? or just 7sins in WotDG & DL armies? Why can't we separate these pantheons?
      - The Chaos & its 4Gods (4horsemen of the Chaos) are the all consuming power , but they can't get to our World so they send throw the gaps parts of their power in the form of demi-gods (7sins) to get some followers & to rip the Veil apart.
      - but...7sins got their own goals (their own World).
      So we can separate two armies one from the other & still use daemonic armis as they were!
    • Porw wrote:

      Do we still got our Chaos-Apoc, Khorn-War/Tzeentch-Death/Nurgle-Plague/Slaanesh-Hunger & 7sins as their rebelled messengers? or just 7sins in WotDG & DL armies? Why can't we separate these pantheons?
      - The Chaos & its 4Gods (4horsemen of the Chaos) are the all consuming power , but they can't get to our World so they send throw the gaps parts of their power in the form of demi-gods (7sins) to get some followers & to rip the Veil apart.
      - but...7sins got their own goals (their own World).
      So we can separate two armies one from the other & still use daemonic armis as they were!
      Khorne/Nurgle/Slaanesh/Tzeentch are very clearly GW IP, and so cannot be used. Nor is that correspondence to the 4 horsemen of the apocalypse particularly good, so going with a 4 horsemen theme wouldn't really preserve existing armies. (Tzeentch is actually 'change', not 'death', and Slaanesh is only hunger in a metaphorical sense that has nothing to do with the horsemen imagery).

      That said, all your old units will find a place in the new DL book. But how allegiances work won't be the same.
      Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.

      Legal

      Playtester

      Chariot Command HQ

    • Squirrelloid wrote:

      That said, all your old units will find a place in the new DL book. But how allegiances work won't be the same.
      Yep, but they will have a different name. And statline. And special rules. And background. The base will probably stay.

      Why even this way was chosen? Why not 5 gods? Why not 3? At least that would solve issues with complexity of WDG armybook.
    • Kaitin wrote:

      Squirrelloid wrote:

      That said, all your old units will find a place in the new DL book. But how allegiances work won't be the same.
      Yep, but they will have a different name. And statline. And special rules. And background. The base will probably stay.
      Why even this way was chosen? Why not 5 gods? Why not 3? At least that would solve issues with complexity of WDG armybook.
      I'm not sure what you mean by the 'base' in this context.

      And this was chosen because it had mythological material to work with. And probably other reasons. I was not involved in that decision.

      Porw wrote:

      @'Squirelloid' Hunger is not just a hunger, but hunger for everything. Death is the ultimate Motivator (ultimate changer, knows everything, every secret, every magic, got raven symbol).
      No, it's not. Hunger is very explicitly actual physical hunger in all the apocalyptic source material. Any metaphorical interpretations are late 20th century, and to the degree they abandon the literal interpretation, they ignore or abandon the source material. (Indeed, i can't think of any who started with the metaphorical interpretation. In GW's case, if it's even explicit somewhere, it's at best a back-formation. 'Hey, we have 4 gods, and there are 4 horsemen of the apocalypse. Both use 4! We can totally stretch this to make it work).

      Nor is death intended as change in any of the apocalyptic material. (Nor is death even metaphorically close to change - when you're dead, you stop changing. It's not the ultimate changer, it's the antithesis of change. Death is stasis).
      Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.

      Legal

      Playtester

      Chariot Command HQ

    • I like the way '7sins' are in, but I don't like 4powers are completely out. I'm not talking about IP, GW doesn' have IP on Chaos as there is no IP on "7sins", "4horsemen" and so on...

      But we are using concept, not "earthly apocalyptic source" - if you write "Hunger is the hunger for everything" then be it. Death is no way Stasis, Death is just The Beginning!
    • Squirrelloid wrote:

      Kaitin wrote:

      Yep, but they will have a different name. And statline. And special rules. And background. The base will probably stay.Why even this way was chosen? Why not 5 gods? Why not 3? At least that would solve issues with complexity of WDG armybook.
      I'm not sure what you mean by the 'base' in this context.
      And this was chosen because it had mythological material to work with. And probably other reasons. I was not involved in that decision.
      Well, that square thing under the model, sadly.
      I know it, that was a question in case of anyone involved visiting this thread. There is a lot of mythological material in the history of mankind to work with, there should be another reasons.
      If this would be my choice, I would choose Scandinavian mythology. Aspiring Champion of Thor, Chosen Riders of Freya, Sorcerer with mark of Loki, why not?
    • Kaitin wrote:

      Squirrelloid wrote:

      Kaitin wrote:

      Yep, but they will have a different name. And statline. And special rules. And background. The base will probably stay.Why even this way was chosen? Why not 5 gods? Why not 3? At least that would solve issues with complexity of WDG armybook.
      I'm not sure what you mean by the 'base' in this context.And this was chosen because it had mythological material to work with. And probably other reasons. I was not involved in that decision.
      Well, that square thing under the model, sadly.I know it, that was a question in case of anyone involved visiting this thread. There is a lot of mythological material in the history of mankind to work with, there should be another reasons.
      If this would be my choice, I would choose Scandinavian mythology. Aspiring Champion of Thor, Chosen Riders of Freya, Sorcerer with mark of Loki, why not?
      That would kinda sever the tie to the Daemons, might be okay but then they sound more noble :)?
    • Kaitin wrote:

      Squirrelloid wrote:

      Kaitin wrote:

      Yep, but they will have a different name. And statline. And special rules. And background. The base will probably stay.Why even this way was chosen? Why not 5 gods? Why not 3? At least that would solve issues with complexity of WDG armybook.
      I'm not sure what you mean by the 'base' in this context.And this was chosen because it had mythological material to work with. And probably other reasons. I was not involved in that decision.
      Well, that square thing under the model, sadly.I know it, that was a question in case of anyone involved visiting this thread. There is a lot of mythological material in the history of mankind to work with, there should be another reasons.
      If this would be my choice, I would choose Scandinavian mythology. Aspiring Champion of Thor, Chosen Riders of Freya, Sorcerer with mark of Loki, why not?
      I would have gone more esoteric but stayed in the near eastern ballpark. Maybe blend some things (Enochian judaism, gnosticism, zoroastrianism, etc...). But definitely want to stick with 'evil' powers. 7 sins doesn't bother me, though, and will be more familiar to most players.

      Keep in mind there's other pantheons, and some might find inspiration in germanic mythology of various sources.
      Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.

      Legal

      Playtester

      Chariot Command HQ

    • Kapten Kluns wrote:

      Kaitin wrote:

      Well, that square thing under the model, sadly.I know it, that was a question in case of anyone involved visiting this thread. There is a lot of mythological material in the history of mankind to work with, there should be another reasons.If this would be my choice, I would choose Scandinavian mythology. Aspiring Champion of Thor, Chosen Riders of Freya, Sorcerer with mark of Loki, why not?
      That would kinda sever the tie to the Daemons, might be okay but then they sound more noble :)?
      Great Crow of Odin leading an army of nightmares and mulings? Definetely not impossible. We have myrmidons anyway
    • Kaitin wrote:

      Kapten Kluns wrote:

      Kaitin wrote:

      Well, that square thing under the model, sadly.I know it, that was a question in case of anyone involved visiting this thread. There is a lot of mythological material in the history of mankind to work with, there should be another reasons.If this would be my choice, I would choose Scandinavian mythology. Aspiring Champion of Thor, Chosen Riders of Freya, Sorcerer with mark of Loki, why not?
      That would kinda sever the tie to the Daemons, might be okay but then they sound more noble :)?
      Great Crow of Odin leading an army of nightmares and mulings? Definetely not impossible. We have myrmidons anyway
      Yeah, I am hoping for a name change there since all I can see is shining muscular men that are stoic. Theres no evil in that :)!
    • Squirrelloid wrote:

      Kaitin wrote:

      Squirrelloid wrote:

      I'm not sure what you mean by the 'base' in this context.And this was chosen because it had mythological material to work with. And probably other reasons. I was not involved in that decision.
      Well, that square thing under the model, sadly.I know it, that was a question in case of anyone involved visiting this thread. There is a lot of mythological material in the history of mankind to work with, there should be another reasons.If this would be my choice, I would choose Scandinavian mythology. Aspiring Champion of Thor, Chosen Riders of Freya, Sorcerer with mark of Loki, why not?
      I would have gone more esoteric but stayed in the near eastern ballpark. Maybe blend some things (Enochian judaism, gnosticism, zoroastrianism, etc...). But definitely want to stick with 'evil' powers. 7 sins doesn't bother me, though, and will be more familiar to most players.
      Keep in mind there's other pantheons, and some might find inspiration in germanic mythology of various sources.
      Well, that EVIL POWWAH thing is what bothers me. When I examinated the lore of Chaos Gods, I understanded clearly that these dudes in magic armor are wild, they are destructive to everyone including themselves, but from their point of view - there is no other way to live. You can leave Chaos God and die to be consumed, or you can serve Chaos God and try to get his love before you will be consumed just like everyone else. Even if you fail - you get some profit before you die. You will became sick, but almost immortal, you will became a great warrior, or wizard, or you will get tentacles to satisfy your concubines.
      And now I dont understand - these wasteland dudes are insane? They are playing russian roulette with 5 bullets loaded, I can believe that there are some freaks who would sell their souls for power with small chance to became a demon, but it doesn't look attractive. They are not the ones I would hire in my army.