What do YOU most want to see for Daemon lore?

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    • In my mind, first there was Father Chaos. As the mortal world evolved, the 7 sins came into being as personifications of their names, their personality being their name in its purest form and Father Chaos nurtured them into the full fledged daemon lords they are now.
      There are lots of smaller minions and monstrous demons around, most have been persuaded to have an allegiance with one of these eight, be it to feel safer (the world beyond the veil is a dangerous place, even for daemons), hunger for more power, bloodlust, whatever.
      Father Chaos is the ultimate daemon overlord, every daemon and even the sins are in his service. No matter how you look at it, the sins cause more chaos where he is the ultimate personification of. That's it in a nutshell.
      Smashing skulls since 99

      The post was edited 3 times, last by badman341980 ().

    • badman341980 wrote:

      Aren't orcs corrupted, mutated elves?
      Allow me to go off in a short rant about this since I love explaining it.

      They sort of are in Tolkien lore, which invented the concept of Orcs. Tolkien kind of struggled with Orcs since he needed them as a bad guy the good guys could kill without getting into the morality of killing, but he was a devout Christian and injected a lot of that into his work and the idea of creating a race that cannot be redeemed repulsed him, not to mention he hated tying such a concept to his ideas of men, Dwarves, and Elves. So he never really gave a concrete explanation of their origins in any work, just kind of listing off the possibilities in letters and lectures that they are Elves who fled from the Valar in fear and were captured and devolved by Sauron, men who fled the Elves and were captured and devolved by Sauron, or some combination of the two which were eugenically bred by their master. He also describes them as wriggling out of the earth like maggots, although the description is taken as metaphorical outside of the Jackson movies where its literal. After JRR died he left his son Christopher Tolkien in charge of the canon, and Christopher settled on the corrupt human/Elf hybrids as the official canon. Uruk-hai are literally half-human and half-Orc, while all other Orcs (which includes Goblins) are just some mixture of corrupted Elf and human.

      D&D was the first setting to use Orcs after Tolkien, and in it they were ordinary pig men at first that existed as low level fights. They gained some popularity resulting in some supplements focusing on them, and continuted on in popularity until they were the common mid level foe while also being a PC race both in their half-human form as well as in certain supplements that usually appeared in Dragon Magazine as a full-fledged PC race. Nowadays they are more like the cousins of Elves by virtue of their creator gods having been once part of the same group, although only in some settings (mostly Faerun and Greyhawk, as the two settings with the most active mythology).

      Warhammer had Orcs because Citadel produced miniatures for D&D as well as just about everything else in Europe, and when they lost the license to most of their IPs they recycled everything into a new game called Warhammer to keep selling the same models. Early Warhammer Orcs were never connected to Elves but could be used in the same armies. Early on they were just another ordinary race, but after Warhammer 40k came out and had their Orcs be fungus apes as part of the "dialed up to 11, with infinite war" theme they ported the idea back into Warhammer Fantasy. They stopped making the female and children models, and imported some of the Judge Dredd knockoff jokes based on 1980's British football (soccer) to make Orcs darkly comedic.

      They don't seem to be connected to Elves in T9A, given they existed on their own before the Beastmen came according to the Dwarf/Bretonnian scroll that gives us our lore for the setting. But then again we haven't gotten to them yet for a lore release, so...maybe?
    • Dopey wrote:

      Way past this point indeed: but I find demons more interesting as individuals rather than aspects of ethics. Beings of agency firstmost, in servitude up until one makes it big.

      Non-traditional as far as demon literature goes, I know. I found the Chaos Four to be dull after a while too.
      Wait! Tzeentch has always been amazing! Maybe it's because I come from 40k, but Tzeentch fluff has always been interesting in that universe. I agree on Khorne and Nurgle though. These two were rather boring.
      Armies:


      • Orcs & Goblins
      • Kingdom of Breton.. ah! I mean Equitaine! ;)
    • Thannak wrote:

      badman341980 wrote:

      Aren't orcs corrupted, mutated elves?
      Allow me to go off in a short rant about this since I love explaining it.
      They sort of are in Tolkien lore, which invented the concept of Orcs. Tolkien kind of struggled with Orcs since he needed them as a bad guy the good guys could kill without getting into the morality of killing, but he was a devout Christian and injected a lot of that into his work and the idea of creating a race that cannot be redeemed repulsed him, not to mention he hated tying such a concept to his ideas of men, Dwarves, and Elves. So he never really gave a concrete explanation of their origins in any work, just kind of listing off the possibilities in letters and lectures that they are Elves who fled from the Valar in fear and were captured and devolved by Sauron, men who fled the Elves and were captured and devolved by Sauron, or some combination of the two which were eugenically bred by their master. He also describes them as wriggling out of the earth like maggots, although the description is taken as metaphorical outside of the Jackson movies where its literal. After JRR died he left his son Christopher Tolkien in charge of the canon, and Christopher settled on the corrupt human/Elf hybrids as the official canon. Uruk-hai are literally half-human and half-Orc, while all other Orcs (which includes Goblins) are just some mixture of corrupted Elf and human.

      D&D was the first setting to use Orcs after Tolkien, and in it they were ordinary pig men at first that existed as low level fights. They gained some popularity resulting in some supplements focusing on them, and continuted on in popularity until they were the common mid level foe while also being a PC race both in their half-human form as well as in certain supplements that usually appeared in Dragon Magazine as a full-fledged PC race. Nowadays they are more like the cousins of Elves by virtue of their creator gods having been once part of the same group, although only in some settings (mostly Faerun and Greyhawk, as the two settings with the most active mythology).

      Warhammer had Orcs because Citadel produced miniatures for D&D as well as just about everything else in Europe, and when they lost the license to most of their IPs they recycled everything into a new game called Warhammer to keep selling the same models. Early Warhammer Orcs were never connected to Elves but could be used in the same armies. Early on they were just another ordinary race, but after Warhammer 40k came out and had their Orcs be fungus apes as part of the "dialed up to 11, with infinite war" theme they ported the idea back into Warhammer Fantasy. They stopped making the female and children models, and imported some of the Judge Dredd knockoff jokes based on 1980's British football (soccer) to make Orcs darkly comedic.

      They don't seem to be connected to Elves in T9A, given they existed on their own before the Beastmen came according to the Dwarf/Bretonnian scroll that gives us our lore for the setting. But then again we haven't gotten to them yet for a lore release, so...maybe?
      Awesome explanation! However, note that in Warhammer Fantasy, even after they imported hooligan fungus Orks concept from 40k into Fantasy, it was much more ambiguous if they were fungus or not than in 40k. They were just claiming that they were extraordinary prolific and very hard to root out after having infested a new area. It was kind of left us to conclude if they were just fungus like in 40k or just the babies having a very short gestating period.

      I however think there should be female Orcs in T9A. This would add some complexity in the race fluff and open up for jokes about them being the real brains behind the WAAAAAGH! Sorry for being out of the subject though.
      Armies:


      • Orcs & Goblins
      • Kingdom of Breton.. ah! I mean Equitaine! ;)
    • Possession.

      The whole demon hunter aspect intrigues me, what with the witch hunters and the inquisition and generalised paranoia...

      I would love it if things could progress somewhat like this: an occult enthusiast dabbles in summoning rituals, gets possessed by a demon (purposefully or accidentally), and the possessor begins work in secret to prepare a ritual which will allow actual demons in the flesh to step through the Veil. The grander the ritual, the more demons are let through.

      All the dark gods tempt mortals in different ways as described in the new WDG book.

      Will chaos undivided have a greater demon? I sure hope it does.
      "You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" -Death
      Phae's Pointy-Ear Blog: Elves in a Corner