EoS Artillery, Neither Cheap Nor Reliable... Thoughts?

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  • Smythen wrote:

    heretic.
    The lack of options is imho the fact that its all just men in blocks with different weapons.
    I see plenty of list I would like to try. But then again I don't get that many games with them, as I also play alot of other armies.
    Hope to see you again to defend the empire when the FAB comes.
    well my Play style has been activly nerfed and removed as an option. I dont like DeathStars and i dont like gunlines... So ya.
  • As it happens, I don't think the best EoS lists are gunlines or deathstars.
    But these two are the easier to play EoS lists for sure.

    EoS does MMU/toolbox REALLY well in the current book, but it is hard to master.

    I've been helping @Fthunder build towards his ETC list, and that is defo not a gunline or deathstar.
    People want t9a/RT to simultaneously square, triangle, and icosagon the circle, whilst vehemently attacking it if there are any corners.

    ID blog
    Dan ventures into the lands of smoke and fire

    Basic beginners tactics
    No 'tactics for beginners' thread?
  • DanT wrote:

    EoS does MMU/toolbox REALLY well in the current book, but it is hard to master
    Ha, you A** ;). I know what your saying and my words fail med a bit. I can do It in danish... But let med try.

    All the lists look the same in my eyes, and i dont fancy playing that list (yes there is a knight Star and a Dragon list aswell, but i really dont fancy Them). You may have seen my lists, lets just say that they are subpar.
  • Cortrillion wrote:

    Ha, you A** ;). I know what your saying and my words fail med a bit. I can do It in danish... But let med try.
    All the lists look the same in my eyes, and i dont fancy playing that list (yes there is a knight Star and a Dragon list aswell, but i really dont fancy Them). You may have seen my lists, lets just say that they are subpar.
    Hmmm... sorry, I am not sure what you're saying.

    I genuinely think there are quite a variety of viable EoS lists.
    And I'm not sure what you think is this "stereotypical" list.

    Regardless though, I hope you are having fun with whatever army you've switched to :)
    People want t9a/RT to simultaneously square, triangle, and icosagon the circle, whilst vehemently attacking it if there are any corners.

    ID blog
    Dan ventures into the lands of smoke and fire

    Basic beginners tactics
    No 'tactics for beginners' thread?
    • I took a couple Imperial Rocketeers today. They weren’t awful. The Highlight was one of the Rockets doing 6 wounds to a Minotaur unit. They also didn’t die. Not sure if I want them in the next list. I’ll have to think on it.
    EVERSHADE GAMING! AMERICA'S FAVORITE YOUTUBE BATTLE REPORTER :thumbsup:

    Hey, I'm Charles. I'm the main contributor for Evershade Gaming on YouTube. I post Battle Reports, List Reviews for Midwest (U.S.A.) Tournaments, and videos on my ideas about the Ninth Age. I post 2-3 videos monthly.

    Link to my Channel! youtube.com/channel/UCKjjkWnXanizMuTh5obkxpA

    theforgottenturtle.com An Awesome Painting Blog!
  • Personally, I think EoS it at a better place than it has been for long. Fun and varied options, while still competitive.

    Main issues:

    - Artillery, as is clear from this thread.
    - Knights with lances too weak or too expensive.
    - Still little reason to bring the pegasus, dragon and dismounted inquisitor.
    - Flaggelants, alter and Artificer perhaps still needs slight points reduction.

    But compared to how our book used to be, these are nothing. Some other armies are much worse off, look at SE for instance.
  • Cortrillion wrote:

    DanT wrote:

    EoS does MMU/toolbox REALLY well in the current book, but it is hard to master
    Ha, you A** ;). I know what your saying and my words fail med a bit. I can do It in danish... But let med try.
    All the lists look the same in my eyes, and i dont fancy playing that list (yes there is a knight Star and a Dragon list aswell, but i really dont fancy Them). You may have seen my lists, lets just say that they are subpar.
    cheers. I think :drunk:
    You are usually quite understandable :D
    and I still believe; Light infantry should fight and shoot in 3 ranks, FREE command groups for EoS units. Imperial Guards should have weaponmaster and both parent and support, and that halbardiers should wear heavy armor. Brace for impact should be changed to, or there should be an extra order: " Have at THEM!" The unit gain battle focus.
    For Sunna and the Emperor!!
  • After a few test runs without artillery at all, I am back to trying a steam tank and a rocket, or two depending on my wizard being a master or adept. This is sort of the list building dilemma I have. Too many demands on my non core points!
    Core is absolute minimum, and provides one line infantry unit (my weakest one too), and some small arms fire and chaff. I ditched my fighting detachments as a waste of points and clutter in my battle line. So my kosg and Imperial Guard, my steam tank, are my fighting units and they all come out of special / not core.

    If everyone is now thinking “no kidding dumb guy”.... in my defence I don’t have that issue with my other armies. My OnG have a giant block of goblins and two 30 strong orc (1 feral 1 bow and shield) units in core. Chaff, shooting and doodads are mostly out of core.
    My SE (which I like a lot) has all my archers, dryads and spear elves in core (over 40% core and it rocks)
    My KoE has all my knights and a blob of 50 serfs in core, and is 40% or more core.
    My UD has a giant chariot unit and a 50 guy infantry hoard and archers in core for almost 40%.

    I miss being able to take useful core knights, (without building a dart or death star) kinda resent that chicken knights are squatting on my special points, and feel that our units are priced as though we have universal access to hatred and buff wagons, even though as discussed we are hard pressed to fit in all the toys we feel we need, let alone the toys we may want. And the giant attention / point suck that artillery represents exaggerates this issue.

    TLDR version, I hope our FAB shifts the points out of the units that can be boosted and on to the boosters themselves, so I can have cheap and cheerful infantry cavalry and guns and then pick carefully which boosts I want to have and pay for, and only those, then my core might thrive again as the actual “core” of my army and not As a “tax” full of chaff.
  • Gaius Marius wrote:

    After a few test runs without artillery at all, I am back to trying a steam tank and a rocket, or two depending on my wizard being a master or adept. This is sort of the list building dilemma I have. Too many demands on my non core points!
    Core is absolute minimum, and provides one line infantry unit (my weakest one too), and some small arms fire and chaff. I ditched my fighting detachments as a waste of points and clutter in my battle line. So my kosg and Imperial Guard, my steam tank, are my fighting units and they all come out of special / not core.

    If everyone is now thinking “no kidding dumb guy”.... in my defence I don’t have that issue with my other armies. My OnG have a giant block of goblins and two 30 strong orc (1 feral 1 bow and shield) units in core. Chaff, shooting and doodads are mostly out of core.
    My SE (which I like a lot) has all my archers, dryads and spear elves in core (over 40% core and it rocks)
    My KoE has all my knights and a blob of 50 serfs in core, and is 40% or more core.
    My UD has a giant chariot unit and a 50 guy infantry hoard and archers in core for almost 40%.

    I miss being able to take useful core knights, (without building a dart or death star) kinda resent that chicken knights are squatting on my special points, and feel that our units are priced as though we have universal access to hatred and buff wagons, even though as discussed we are hard pressed to fit in all the toys we feel we need, let alone the toys we may want. And the giant attention / point suck that artillery represents exaggerates this issue.

    TLDR version, I hope our FAB shifts the points out of the units that can be boosted and on to the boosters themselves, so I can have cheap and cheerful infantry cavalry and guns and then pick carefully which boosts I want to have and pay for, and only those, then my core might thrive again as the actual “core” of my army and not As a “tax” full of chaff.
    Wow, I felt a lot of these same feelings. I was just venting to a player yesterday about many of these same issues. My main issue with EoS is that I just can't field a lot of combat threats. If I do field more than one significant threat, than I usually have to do so at the loss of Light Infantry which is our best shooting right now or multiple scoring units. I actually find our core to be decently priced. It's the only part of the book that doesn't drive me nuts. The problem is I always want to take min core. I probably had the best results in a long time with some Rieters yesterday. Most of the time they just die before accomplishing anything significant.
    EVERSHADE GAMING! AMERICA'S FAVORITE YOUTUBE BATTLE REPORTER :thumbsup:

    Hey, I'm Charles. I'm the main contributor for Evershade Gaming on YouTube. I post Battle Reports, List Reviews for Midwest (U.S.A.) Tournaments, and videos on my ideas about the Ninth Age. I post 2-3 videos monthly.

    Link to my Channel! youtube.com/channel/UCKjjkWnXanizMuTh5obkxpA

    theforgottenturtle.com An Awesome Painting Blog!
  • Exactly Gaius Marius!

    I really like horse knights with lances. The Knights Panther models are simply awesome, and I have spent countless hours painting them to be so beautiful! But look at my options:

    Option one:
    5 ridiculous peasants in shiny armour, only for scoring or chaff wars. An insult to the models.

    Option two:
    A large unit that will still have rubber lances unless joined by expensive mounted characters. Suddenly, the army is built around getting the knights to work, and they are still overpriced and out performed by IG, Stank or chickens.

    Our old Knightly Orders, with two attacks. Now that was a unit that could actually deploy to a flank and be expected to fight, without characters and without buffs. Sure they were overpriced for what they did. But they did provide me a fun and idenpendent way of using my horse knights. Either give us back horse knights that can fight on their own. Or make them cheaper. Cut the price for shield and lance in half.
  • Gaius Marius wrote:

    After a few test runs without artillery at all, I am back to trying a steam tank and a rocket, or two depending on my wizard being a master or adept. This is sort of the list building dilemma I have. Too many demands on my non core points!
    Core is absolute minimum, and provides one line infantry unit (my weakest one too), and some small arms fire and chaff. I ditched my fighting detachments as a waste of points and clutter in my battle line. So my kosg and Imperial Guard, my steam tank, are my fighting units and they all come out of special / not core.

    If everyone is now thinking “no kidding dumb guy”.... in my defence I don’t have that issue with my other armies. My OnG have a giant block of goblins and two 30 strong orc (1 feral 1 bow and shield) units in core. Chaff, shooting and doodads are mostly out of core.
    My SE (which I like a lot) has all my archers, dryads and spear elves in core (over 40% core and it rocks)
    My KoE has all my knights and a blob of 50 serfs in core, and is 40% or more core.
    My UD has a giant chariot unit and a 50 guy infantry hoard and archers in core for almost 40%.

    I miss being able to take useful core knights, (without building a dart or death star) kinda resent that chicken knights are squatting on my special points, and feel that our units are priced as though we have universal access to hatred and buff wagons, even though as discussed we are hard pressed to fit in all the toys we feel we need, let alone the toys we may want. And the giant attention / point suck that artillery represents exaggerates this issue.

    TLDR version, I hope our FAB shifts the points out of the units that can be boosted and on to the boosters themselves, so I can have cheap and cheerful infantry cavalry and guns and then pick carefully which boosts I want to have and pay for, and only those, then my core might thrive again as the actual “core” of my army and not As a “tax” full of chaff.
    feel somewhat the same. I just really can't see our chars becoming even more expensive.
    So in reality I just want our heavy infantry and horse knights to be slightly better in combat.
    Maybe just use the split ws to give them OS 4. And the knights AG4
    and I still believe; Light infantry should fight and shoot in 3 ranks, FREE command groups for EoS units. Imperial Guards should have weaponmaster and both parent and support, and that halbardiers should wear heavy armor. Brace for impact should be changed to, or there should be an extra order: " Have at THEM!" The unit gain battle focus.
    For Sunna and the Emperor!!
  • Bloody MIsfire wrote:

    Exactly Gaius Marius!
    Our old Knightly Orders, with two attacks. Now that was a unit that could actually deploy to a flank and be expected to fight, without characters and without buffs. Sure they were overpriced for what they did. But they did provide me a fun and idenpendent way of using my horse knights. Either give us back horse knights that can fight on their own. Or make them cheaper. Cut the price for shield and lance in half.
    I have been missing this unit recently. I know they competed against KotSG in an unhealthy way but I stil miss them.

    I’m a fan of small knight units. Not super powerful, but I’m okay with thier price and abilities.
    EVERSHADE GAMING! AMERICA'S FAVORITE YOUTUBE BATTLE REPORTER :thumbsup:

    Hey, I'm Charles. I'm the main contributor for Evershade Gaming on YouTube. I post Battle Reports, List Reviews for Midwest (U.S.A.) Tournaments, and videos on my ideas about the Ninth Age. I post 2-3 videos monthly.

    Link to my Channel! youtube.com/channel/UCKjjkWnXanizMuTh5obkxpA

    theforgottenturtle.com An Awesome Painting Blog!
  • SadlerCPII wrote:

    Bloody MIsfire wrote:

    Exactly Gaius Marius!
    Our old Knightly Orders, with two attacks. Now that was a unit that could actually deploy to a flank and be expected to fight, without characters and without buffs. Sure they were overpriced for what they did. But they did provide me a fun and idenpendent way of using my horse knights. Either give us back horse knights that can fight on their own. Or make them cheaper. Cut the price for shield and lance in half.
    I have been missing this unit recently. I know they competed against KotSG in an unhealthy way but I stil miss them.
    I’m a fan of small knight units. Not super powerful, but I’m okay with thier price and abilities.
    Imo they competed in a very healthy way.
    and I still believe; Light infantry should fight and shoot in 3 ranks, FREE command groups for EoS units. Imperial Guards should have weaponmaster and both parent and support, and that halbardiers should wear heavy armor. Brace for impact should be changed to, or there should be an extra order: " Have at THEM!" The unit gain battle focus.
    For Sunna and the Emperor!!
  • Bloody MIsfire wrote:

    Exactly Gaius Marius!

    I really like horse knights with lances. The Knights Panther models are simply awesome, and I have spent countless hours painting them to be so beautiful! But look at my options:

    Option one:
    5 ridiculous peasants in shiny armour, only for scoring or chaff wars. An insult to the models.

    Option two:
    A large unit that will still have rubber lances unless joined by expensive mounted characters. Suddenly, the army is built around getting the knights to work, and they are still overpriced and out performed by IG, Stank or chickens.

    Our old Knightly Orders, with two attacks. Now that was a unit that could actually deploy to a flank and be expected to fight, without characters and without buffs. Sure they were overpriced for what they did. But they did provide me a fun and idenpendent way of using my horse knights. Either give us back horse knights that can fight on their own. Or make them cheaper. Cut the price for shield and lance in half.
    This. I don't know how many times the 5-knights dart have done like 1 wound between 5 lance and 5 horses attack (and we all know who did the wound after all, our 4-legged friends...) The Empire has a tendency to rely more on the mount for damage than the rider... ;)

    at least a devastating charge +1off/agi/att would make them have some punch, but right now they just love to fluke attacks and electoral cavalry can barely hold against anything that's not chaff. And if you go the other knights route, the price hike is prohibitive.
    If you find violence isn't the answer, you're simply not being violent enough.
  • Aramir wrote:

    Bloody MIsfire wrote:

    Exactly Gaius Marius!

    I really like horse knights with lances. The Knights Panther models are simply awesome, and I have spent countless hours painting them to be so beautiful! But look at my options:

    Option one:
    5 ridiculous peasants in shiny armour, only for scoring or chaff wars. An insult to the models.

    Option two:
    A large unit that will still have rubber lances unless joined by expensive mounted characters. Suddenly, the army is built around getting the knights to work, and they are still overpriced and out performed by IG, Stank or chickens.

    Our old Knightly Orders, with two attacks. Now that was a unit that could actually deploy to a flank and be expected to fight, without characters and without buffs. Sure they were overpriced for what they did. But they did provide me a fun and idenpendent way of using my horse knights. Either give us back horse knights that can fight on their own. Or make them cheaper. Cut the price for shield and lance in half.
    This. I don't know how many times the 5-knights dart have done like 1 wound between 5 lance and 5 horses attack (and we all know who did the wound after all, our 4-legged friends...) The Empire has a tendency to rely more on the mount for damage than the rider... ;)
    at least a devastating charge +1off/agi/att would make them have some punch, but right now they just love to fluke attacks and electoral cavalry can barely hold against anything that's not chaff. And if you go the other knights route, the price hike is prohibitive.
    also extra attacks doesn't stack well with ranks. Finally we can see a unit of 10 knights being efficient.
    and I still believe; Light infantry should fight and shoot in 3 ranks, FREE command groups for EoS units. Imperial Guards should have weaponmaster and both parent and support, and that halbardiers should wear heavy armor. Brace for impact should be changed to, or there should be an extra order: " Have at THEM!" The unit gain battle focus.
    For Sunna and the Emperor!!
  • My 4 canon list work pretty well was in 2nd place until the last match in a tournament of 38. I finish 7 because I just make hudge mistake in my last match where I I lose 19/1. If got time will make more report in tournament topic. But the fact is 2 rocket 1 volley gun 1 canon 1 artificier 1 adept divi, for 1100 pts only you get something really performant. If artillery was cheaper i believe our army would become OP.
    cas-p.net / graphic & web designer.
    SE - VS - O&G - EoS / 9th age player.
  • Well if you look at turnament list, i havent seen one list without steam tank since a long time now... Maybe there is a relation. Its looks like i am one of the only EoS player that really play list artillery oriented since a moment.

    I have tested lots of variation, (except the mortar one, that i should still try. 2 artificier 2 mortar + pyro adept with flaming sword & altered sight, should be a pretty good build)

    And well i have always pretty good result.. And almost all turnament participant are scary by artillery.

    And conclusion i dont say they are actually too good; like if i play bad, or make mistake i can still lose game.
    But i said, that if we make them better (more reliable or really cheaper) I think Eos will be OP
    Give me 90 pts additional to my list to be able to join a third unit of 5 ranger for exemple, it would finish to transform some equitable mathcup in pretty good matchup.
    cas-p.net / graphic & web designer.
    SE - VS - O&G - EoS / 9th age player.
  • maybe the main problem is that you have to choose between steamtank and a serious set of artillery.
    In that case we could take steamtank out of the armoury section (would that be a problem?), and just make a rule that it also count as a cannon regarding the 0-2 limit. It could count towards auxiliaries as to avoid the most extreme gunline plus steamtank lists.
    and I still believe; Light infantry should fight and shoot in 3 ranks, FREE command groups for EoS units. Imperial Guards should have weaponmaster and both parent and support, and that halbardiers should wear heavy armor. Brace for impact should be changed to, or there should be an extra order: " Have at THEM!" The unit gain battle focus.
    For Sunna and the Emperor!!