How to grow 9th Age - Thoughts of a 20+ years competitive gamer

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The latest issue of the 9th Scroll is here! You can read all about it in the news.

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  • Ok@mi wrote:

    The forum is impossible for anyone new to the game. Every time I show this to anyone that is slightly interested in the hobby, you can hear the eyes roll in their skull: there is NO wow factor anywhere. Links with black and white pdf's don't appeal to anyone.

    Stunt wrote:

    the website being more appealing is being worked on atm, from what i can gather.
    Technically i have finished website since December 2018.
    English content is now finish since 2-3 month almost.
    Translation still in progress.

    But the website can be release just when we want.

    I dont know what decided red guys, but personnaly i think waiting for the quickstarter release, would be a good opportunity of communication.
    But at condition this do not take too much time. otherwise, maybe the sooner would be the better.
    cas-p.net / graphic & web designer.
    SE - VS - O&G - EoS / 9th age player.
  • It is definitely our fault too, as we were starting to have bigger collections and we wanted to see them laid out on a tournament. We moved from 1500 to 2000, from 2000 to 2500, and ended up doing 3000 points tournaments. It was organic, but it also meant that the people who remained playing were veterans of at least two or three editions.

    Add to that that on each iteration some models were invalidated, base sizes changed, collections were split (Chaos, I am looking at you...), and then you can see how some people were dropping off the arms-race.

    I would very much like to see a return to small-sized tournaments for newbies getting into this. 3000 point games (equivalent to the old 1500) might be a good bet for it.
    LET ME SHOW YOU HOW TO PAINT YOUR MINIATURES EASY AND FAST WITH A NO-BRAINER TECHNIQUE:
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  • Casp wrote:

    Technically i have finished website since December 2018.English content is now finish since 2-3 month almost.
    Translation still in progress.

    But the website can be release just when we want.

    I dont know what decided red guys, but personnaly i think waiting for the quickstarter release, would be a good opportunity of communication.
    But at condition this do not take too much time. otherwise, maybe the sooner would be the better.
    ;( it had been sitting there for months ....

    so
    bad
    for
    keeping
    your
    staff
    motivated
    Booooooaaaaaarsssss .... Chaaaaaaaaaaaaaarge !!!
  • Well my goal was december Gold release ^^..
    But misscommunication, and double task for some team ( cant work on Gold and Website content in same time) Prevent us to reach this goal.

    So now wait for some additionnal month isent such a trouble, as long it is to get a good communication around the website release and maybe promote an other release in parallel. (But thats true i hope it will be soon ^^)
    cas-p.net / graphic & web designer.
    SE - VS - O&G - EoS / 9th age player.
  • New website launch is on the June management meeting topics. So more will be know sooner rather than later.

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    Team Croatia ETC 2019 Captain ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ HEROES AND VILLEINS OF THE 9TH AGE
  • But the website, as with everything else, will probably have flaws and sub-optimal designs that we will only learn about after launch. No offense intended to the great talented people designing it but this always happens

    Why not just release it now and fix the bugs to be ready for a fully functional version with the quickstarter launch?

    Current process seems awfully complicated ;)

    Product Owner - ID LAB

    Alone you may go faster but together we go further ;)
  • Windelov wrote:

    But the website, as with everything else, will probably have flaws and sub-optimal designs that we will only learn about after launch. No offense intended to the great talented people designing it but this always happens

    Why not just release it now and fix the bugs to be ready for a fully functional version with the quickstarter launch?

    Current process seems awfully complicated ;)
    It doesn't seem complicated, it just is. Process is so European in nature that even the soviet union would wince.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
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  • I just got done reading 6 pages to get up-to-speed. Instead of commenting on what others wrote, I will spitball ideas out there. Hopefully some will be implemented.

    website redesign: T9A website needs to be more user-friendly. The forum method was a great tool in the early years to hammer out the various Army books & the Main rulebook. But going forward, we should be utilizing the T9A website to promote/sell the game. When I tell someone go check out the-ninth-age.com, they should be in awe. The main page should be drawing in a potential new player.

    I envision the T9A world map with 16-army icons scattered across it. When you click the Army Icon, a short video on the background of said Army.
    In a scroll down, you can find:
    1. the FAB
    2. the slim book
    3. links to various Miniature lines that can be utilized/purchased to represent the army
    4. The sub-forums for that Army (tactics, list-building, etc

    •The Full Army Books: Just basing this on what I have observed. I am presuming we are near completion on the WotDG book (so a year and some change to complete?). The Daemons and Infernal Dwarves are in full beta. So if my math is decent, we can expect 2 new Full Army Books a year. That puts us at 8 years from being completely Golden (yikes!).

    Others have said it and I will echo the sentiment, “Things are moving too slow if T9A wishes to live & thrive.“ When the BRB hit Golden, I did not witness a new wave of gamers that were sitting on the sidelines for some stability from T9A. They moved on after waiting for 3+years. I know it is volunteers driving the T9A engine but I have witness good talent walk away from this project due to kinks in the bureaucracy Please streamline the process on how these books will be completed and start pumping these out like the GW timeline (a new book every 4 months). It will be great for the community as well. I miss the old “Sneak peaks” days. I remember vividly when a group of us would gather at the end of the day in the GW shop and be able to open the book and skim through it the day before its release. Afterwards, we would digest it, come up with potential lists, etc. I also miss the old podcasts that would do “Book Reviews” with local experts of each army book.

    9th Age Scrolls: Love these things. Keep up the good work. I would love to see an icon on the new Main Page dedicated to just this. This is a great tool for those looking to promote T9A

    •Kill the QS concept: QS is like a new game unto itself. It literally is everything that 9th Age isn’t. From the inability to customize your army list (one of the best parts of our game) to its own set of rules (streamline), it kills the depth of what makes T9A great. Current gamers would have to learn QS themselves before they can teach someone new. Worst part, once the “new” gamer becomes familiarize with the QS rules and wants to move into T9A, they have to learn a new set of rules all over again.

    •BackGround content: I personally have been patiently waiting for the release of T9A world. I know there have been snippets of it in the 9th Age scrolls but it would be great to have some reason why we are battling it out. I look forward to the day when authors write novels about character’s adventures in the T9A world. I know T9A background will not be as in-depth when it is released nor should it. It took 33 years to build the many layers of the old GW world.
  • Fergus wrote:

    I just got done reading 6 pages to get up-to-speed. Instead of commenting on what others wrote, I will spitball ideas out there. Hopefully some will be implemented.

    website redesign: T9A website needs to be more user-friendly. The forum method was a great tool in the early years to hammer out the various Army books & the Main rulebook. But going forward, we should be utilizing the T9A website to promote/sell the game. When I tell someone go check out the-ninth-age.com, they should be in awe. The main page should be drawing in a potential new player.

    I envision the T9A world map with 16-army icons scattered across it. When you click the Army Icon, a short video on the background of said Army.
    In a scroll down, you can find:
    1. the FAB
    2. the slim book
    3. links to various Miniature lines that can be utilized/purchased to represent the army
    4. The sub-forums for that Army (tactics, list-building, etc

    •The Full Army Books: Just basing this on what I have observed. I am presuming we are near completion on the WotDG book (so a year and some change to complete?). The Daemons and Infernal Dwarves are in full beta. So if my math is decent, we can expect 2 new Full Army Books a year. That puts us at 8 years from being completely Golden (yikes!).

    Others have said it and I will echo the sentiment, “Things are moving too slow if T9A wishes to live & thrive.“ When the BRB hit Golden, I did not witness a new wave of gamers that were sitting on the sidelines for some stability from T9A. They moved on after waiting for 3+years. I know it is volunteers driving the T9A engine but I have witness good talent walk away from this project due to kinks in the bureaucracy Please streamline the process on how these books will be completed and start pumping these out like the GW timeline (a new book every 4 months). It will be great for the community as well. I miss the old “Sneak peaks” days. I remember vividly when a group of us would gather at the end of the day in the GW shop and be able to open the book and skim through it the day before its release. Afterwards, we would digest it, come up with potential lists, etc. I also miss the old podcasts that would do “Book Reviews” with local experts of each army book.

    9th Age Scrolls: Love these things. Keep up the good work. I would love to see an icon on the new Main Page dedicated to just this. This is a great tool for those looking to promote T9A

    •Kill the QS concept: QS is like a new game unto itself. It literally is everything that 9th Age isn’t. From the inability to customize your army list (one of the best parts of our game) to its own set of rules (streamline), it kills the depth of what makes T9A great. Current gamers would have to learn QS themselves before they can teach someone new. Worst part, once the “new” gamer becomes familiarize with the QS rules and wants to move into T9A, they have to learn a new set of rules all over again.

    •BackGround content: I personally have been patiently waiting for the release of T9A world. I know there have been snippets of it in the 9th Age scrolls but it would be great to have some reason why we are battling it out. I look forward to the day when authors write novels about character’s adventures in the T9A world. I know T9A background will not be as in-depth when it is released nor should it. It took 33 years to build the many layers of the old GW world.
    A lot of work went into the QS, but I believe it was in vain.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • everybody is of course free to have their opinion on the QS. but it's best for everybody if these opinions are based on facts.

    for example: the QS is composed by premade lists for the basic rules, and by choose-your-own-troops lists with the advanced rules. we've said this multiple times. for certain factions (e.g. ID) you can even find these lists in the relevant subforum.

    knowledge adds value to opinions.


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  • piteglio wrote:

    everybody is of course free to have their opinion on the QS. but it's best for everybody if these opinions are based on facts.

    for example: the QS is composed by premade lists for the basic rules, and by choose-your-own-troops lists with the advanced rules. we've said this multiple times. for certain factions (e.g. ID) you can even find these lists in the relevant subforum.

    knowledge adds value to opinions.
    My facts are.... barely anyone. Using it.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

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  • and what is the time window in which you analyse this fact of yours? is your analysis window limited to the present and the past?

    because you know, when it's a pròject, you need to projèct. i know nobody uses the QS right now. of course no one does: it's not finished yet.

    that doesnt mean it does not work as a concept. and it doesnt mean it wont work when released. it might be one of those cases of "pointing to the moon vs. staring at the finger".


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  • piteglio wrote:

    and what is the time window in which you analyse this fact of yours? is your analysis window limited to the present and the past?

    because you know, when it's a pròject, you need to projèct. i know nobody uses the QS right now. of course no one does: it's not finished yet.

    that doesnt mean it does not work as a concept. and it doesnt mean it wont work when released. it might be one of those cases of "pointing to the moon vs. staring at the finger".
    On facebook, tournaments, and local games, I've asked folks about the QS. I've even pointed people too it if they wanted to try and lower point value and premade version of 9th age. Not a lot of folk appear too crazily over the moon about it and just ask if they can play half point games with the official rule book. A lot of folks seem to have issues with the whole pre-made concept of the armies; Which is understandable since a lot of gamers have the "my dudes" mentality.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • which shows that your analysis window is "asking in the now, and asking people who already played previous versions of the game". this is a perfectly fine window, but it's not the only one. stepping outside of your immediate context, you could find yourself asking:

    - how it could perform in the (near) future: as said here and elsewhere, the QS book is being translated, printed and sold at big events
    - how it could perform with totally new players: and this transforms a problem ("wanna use my dudes") into a resource ("dont have to learn army composition for the first few games")

    i think you give an opinion that accurately reflects your reality (with old players and no printed books).
    but your reality is only a small part of the bigger picture we are moving in.


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  • piteglio wrote:

    which shows that your analysis window is "asking in the now, and asking people who already played previous versions of the game". this is a perfectly fine window, but it's not the only one. stepping outside of your immediate context, you could find yourself asking:

    - how it could perform in the (near) future: as said here and elsewhere, the QS book is being translated, printed and sold at big events
    - how it could perform with totally new players: and this transforms a problem ("wanna use my dudes") into a resource ("dont have to learn army composition for the first few games")

    i think you give an opinion that accurately reflects your reality (with old players and no printed books).
    but your reality is only a small part of the bigger picture we are moving in.
    Well, its done nothing to pull in new players in my area due to none of them wanting to mess with it. So:

    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • ehehehe, love the gif.

    at the same time, you know i could cite one of our facebook conversations where you publicly trashed the KoE premade list because you found it boring... so i'm left doubting if you're maybe projecting your personal dislike of the QS (because you wanna use your dudes) onto other people in your area. which is a completely fine thing to do, if we're just having a conversation. but if we want to devise a plan of outreach, we have to think a bit bigger. a bit beyond what you and your friends feel. because yes, you're important, and you're the heart of the community, and you're vital and special and everything, but also NOT. the world is big, way bigger than than our individual experiences.

    but this is probably getting tedious for everybody else, so i'll stop it here, personally : )


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  • @piteglio
    Dont over-waste your time discussing QS with people who either base their opinion on wrong/mission facts (e.g. QS is much more than premade lists) or are not the correct target group or only think in the past/present. ;)

    The thing is: when in the last 6 month has the upper management shown itself concerning supporting and organizing the QS progress?
    Seems like most dont even know that the task team currently isnt working based on various reasons.
    E.g. removing QS V1.0 from the download section so nobody can actually see that QS V1.0 has already been more than just premade army lists IMO is a failure.
    But I dont invest anymore time in general project management. I focus on delivering content done as team-work

    Quick Starter Team

    Playtester


  • DJWoodelf wrote:

    @piteglio
    Dont over-waste your time discussing QS with people who either base their opinion on wrong/mission facts (e.g. QS is much more than premade lists) or are not the correct target group or only think in the past/present. ;)

    The thing is: when in the last 6 month has the upper management shown itself concerning supporting and organizing the QS progress?
    Seems like most dont even know that the task team currently isnt working based on various reasons.
    E.g. removing QS V1.0 from the download section so nobody can actually see that QS V1.0 has already been more than just premade army lists IMO is a failure.
    But I dont invest anymore time in general project management. I focus on delivering content done as team-work
    Mmkay.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • QS is a tool. It is not for every situation, but it is a tool that can be helpful none the less. Especially for those who have never played, quick convention games (~1 hr in length) or casual pickup games.

    The point is that promoters of T9A have more than 1 tool in their box to get players started. Thats it.
    Rivets, Nuts, and screws all fasten, they just are different and spcialized at different jobs.

    Same with QS.

    More tools in the box.

    Head of Lectors

    Advisory Board

    Quick Starter Team

    "...take a step back and remember that we are playing a game where we roll dice and move little people around the board."

    - Grouchy Badger

  • Fergus wrote:

    •Kill the QS concept: QS is like a new game unto itself. It literally is everything that 9th Age isn’t. From the inability to customize your army list (one of the best parts of our game) to its own set of rules (streamline), it kills the depth of what makes T9A great. Current gamers would have to learn QS themselves before they can teach someone new. Worst part, once the “new” gamer becomes familiarize with the QS rules and wants to move into T9A, they have to learn a new set of rules all over again.
    I fully agree with the rest of this comment, but there are a few things that come to mind here:

    - The Quickstarter concept should not be killed, however I agree with you that its role in relation to the full game is confusing. As you point out it's a separate but similar set of rules, when it could serve better as the training wheels/short version/slim edition of the full game instead.

    - An anecdote related to the first point: Me and a player at the club decided to try out T9A. First a few games of QS to get used to the game, and then the full game. He got annoyed with me for bringing a new system for each game...

    - I love the concept of the QS army lists, these give a perfect baseline for starting with a new army and setting up battles with new players.

    - Some special scenarios would be fun as well. These could be "historical" battles from the T9A with specified terrain, custom objectives and complete army lists for both sides.