DL 2.3 Update Suggestions Thread

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  • DL 2.3 Update Suggestions Thread

    I'll pop this thread here so that people can get their suggestions in order.

    This thread is mainly for suggestions regarding the GD's and update 2.2 fixes.

    Please use the terms Feel and Cost as much as you can to determine what your suggestion is towards.

    Do not comment on other people's suggestions. You can discuss them in a other post. Let's keep this section clutter free!
  • I'll start off with suggesting that;

    I feel as though the Omen can get stuck in combats too easily. Maybe a rule for him to perma-slay a champion in a unit could be written for this? Or a rule to prevent raising in a unit he is in combat with?

    Also I think the cost of Blazing Glories does NOT at all validate their usefulness. I feel bad that they are costed so high for being such a niche unit. They definitely could go down in price and still barely be used by most players. I do still believe it's a costing issue more than a feel issue. The fluff is great. The points are not. Perhaps a look at the manifestations available and rearranging points to match the changes.

    Last, I feel as though the fact that all GD's are about the same general scope with the differences being 1 special rule that makes them do something different, doesnt make me want to look at the differently. None of the units scream "I'm this model and I do this!". Right now they're all... Bland and... Generalized. We need them to be split apart just a bit more.
  • My suggestions:

    - Iron husk: 75 points if the model is standard. 100 if gigantic

    - Mirrored Scales: works in every succesfull special save.

    - Sorcerous Antenae: current text doesn't allow to channel 2 if you have a unit and a character in it with the manifestation. I think you should rewritte it.

    - Brimstone Secretions: should cost a little less (like 15/25)

    - Third Eye: if you don't like the card, once per battle you can re-shuffle your deck. When you do this, the manifestation stops working for the rest of the battle.

    - Bronze Backbone: seems a little sad to be as plain as simple hatred. It's good, but it's too simple for a daemon.

    - Horns of Hubris: too expensive.

    In general terms, I think we lack some defensive manifestations. It's ok that we are weak against magic, but not against normal combat and missile attacks.

    Of course, Hoaders should have access to new mirrored scales.

    Also, dont' like the new Blazing Glories. They should count as Campions, not Characters. Counting as characters is a nerf more than an upgrade. And I think they need access to two manifestations.

    Veil serpents seems weak. They need the old tarskin, or something more powerful.
  • Not sure if this thread is really needed as we already have an official suggestion thread. I copy-paste my suggestion here anyways.

    about blazing glories I think that decreasing their off deff skill as their ego is damaged with wounds taken is fluffy but sadly very bad for the game too.

    I would rework their ego = off deff skill thing as follows:

    They are forced to challenge and their off deff skill depends on "how worthy" of fighting them their opponents are, for example:

    Fighting a character(appart from those insignificant, inferior and ridiculous champions) off deff 10

    Fighting gigantic model: off deff 8

    Fighting large models: off deff 6

    Fighting standar size: off deff 4

    Fighting troops with the insignificant rule: off deff 2

    This suggestion should ve very fluffy as well as useful in the game. It makes sense that the better the opponent is, the better those showing off beasts perform while being really unmotivated towards fighting slaves
    scissors: "OMG ROCK IS SUPER OVERPOWERED! NERF IT!!" "what about paper?" "paper is fine"

    Photos of models/armies from ETC 2017:

    Cool models seen at ETC 2017
  • Veiled Tendrils 45(80)

    Any time a natural to hit roll of "1" is rolled with any attacks directed at the model (or any r&f model that this model joins) at the same agility step and from the same Health Pool, an equal number of dice that roll a natural to hit roll of "6" must be discarded.

    The idea behind it;
    Father Chaos bestows a unit the ability to summon forth tendrils of solidified veil energy when the right opportunity arises. These tendrils literally swallow up arrows/magic attacks, or knock aside attacks that they seem to be aimed with precision/potential to hit and kill the model/unit.
    It's a protective ability. And I can see it being used on GD's to defend them from shooting and massed attacks. With 3 1's rolled, theres a potential of taking out an additional 3 attacks that could be poisoned or have Battlefocus.
  • I have two things that bug me right now. (i have some more, but these are the ones i want to talk about).

    Divination on Courtesan. The non-synergie from the conclave and the plan to run the courtesan up a flank kinda bugs me. Maybe we could get evocation or thauma on her instead.

    Third Eye and magic defense. I was a little bit sad to see the old third eye going away. It was a source of magic defense, but a more psychological one. With an aura range around the character (so we could steal buffs) it would really shape the enemies decision while not really upgrading the pure magical defense. maybe we can get that back in an upgraded form (maybe i am the only one that misses it).
  • Or third eye.
    A spell that has been cast in a previous magic phase can be attempted to be cast twice in this phase.
    Say hello to some interesting mages but doesnt increase casting bonus, doesnt affect the enemies ability to dispell or cast and it has a similar effect as the old third eye but the condition effect isnt upon the enemy but our side.
  • Hereditary needs a buff imho. Nearly every other spell available seems to be a better alternative. Either switch it to the former version (Aegis increased) or increase its damage slightly.
    Iron Husk seems to be too expensive for models without Towering Presence. It should be cheaper for them.
    Mark of the Eternal Champion is too expensive for our (weak) hereditary.
    Chitinous Scales seems to be useless. An Armour of 3 doesn't bother anyone on a model with Res 4. It should at least be an Armour of 3 itself.
    Piercing Spike is imho too expensive in the guided version. Of course, a Rending Banner is just one use only, but it can be used with weapons also increasing the AP. 50poins for guiding seems to be fitting.
    A Manifestation increasing Strength for characters would be something nice. Limit the Strength to 6 and don't increase AP. Maybe 50 or 60 points for Strength +1, limited to 6 (and only for large models - Kuulimas Deceiver does not need any futher buffs).

    Sentinel of Nukuja and Vanadra's Scourge are not seen very often. The Sentinel is imho too expensive. It's just a tough Wizard Master and comparable to an Ogre Shaman. Its abilities are not that overpowered and the Manifestations are neither. Either increase its attack value to 3 or reduce the points.
    The Scourge is very expensive. It has nearly no defense and not that much attacks. It has to be used very carefully (many units hit it on a 4+, even if it charged due to paired weapons or just higher Off) and loses its healthpoints quite fast. An Armour of 2 or at least decreased points would help.

    It's a pity that both big daemons with wings seem to be the weakest. The models we use for them are problay the coolest, but other alternatives seem to be better. And you can't use them as Blazingg Glories in many cases, because many are glued to a 5x10 base.

    It might be just me (this could be true for all things I mention), but Imps seem to be too expensive. Their stats are a big disadvantage and there shooting is too special. It's good vs some armies or units but vs most it's either to short, too weak (AP) or their Reload! hits them hard.

    Succubi lose in comparison to Myrmidions. If you want to play safe, use Myrmidions. Either weaken Myrmidions or buff Succubi. Same speed, same Def, same Res, same Aegis, same AP and only more attacks for the first rank (which is even reduced to the Fight in Extra Rank Rule of the Myrmidions). But you can't field as many (25 vs 30), their disclipine is -1 and their Off is -1 too. Their special rule just works vs Infantry and if the opponent does not have at least Def 5 or Parry, Myrmidions hit with the same probability.

    Threshing Engines should be driven by Succubi and not by random tillers. Same goes for the Draft Beasts. Should be Pale Steeds.
    And they need more Res or Armour 2. At least the both bigger versions. But they are not impressive anyway.

    Hope Harvesters Upgrade Engine of Damnation seems to be overpriced and not that versatile. I would
    suggest an additional Attack and would like to see a different shooting option. And imho the prices for manifestations should differ, as units can't benefit from an Engine of Damnation.

    Brazen Beasts - please change their name if they don't get an armour or a higher Res. Their name, the description in the background and the illustration don't fit to an unit with no armour (or optional Armour 2) and just Res 4.

    Veil Serpents should get another manifestation than Mirrored Scales. They used to be mobile buffers because their manifestations influenced whole units. But Mirrored Scales is no comparision to Tar Skin and nearly meaningless in close combats where they are also involved.

    Bloat Flies still seem to be overpowered. I would slighty increase their points.
  • .

    Natasake wrote:

    Succubi lose in comparison to Myrmidions. If you want to play safe, use Myrmidions. Either weaken Myrmidions or buff Succubi. Same speed, same Def, same Res, same Aegis, same AP and only more attacks for the first rank (which is even reduced to the Fight in Extra Rank Rule of the Myrmidions). But you can't field as many (25 vs 30), their disclipine is -1 and their Off is -1 too. Their special rule just works vs Infantry and if the opponent does not have at least Def 5 or Parry, Myrmidions hit with the same probability.
    I have to say that's the first time I've heard someone say Myrmidons were better than Succubi. Tournament lists seem to like Succubi more, too, based on the lists posted in these forums.