Pinned DL community design suggestions for 2.3 (beta)

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  • you have to focus on the pain. The only thing thats real.


    Kapten Kluns wrote:

    Theokrit wrote:

    but the titanslayer is already not good against other targets. Does it really have to get even worse?
    I find that right now the points in him can be worth it. if the opponent has a giant target, he can zone it (never caught anything above a chimera with the titanslayer... didnt even kill that one). If he doesnt, i have a chariot thats surprisingly durable and grindy and brings quality attacks. He needs to have that secondary role. Id argue that this role needs to become more pronounced too.
    Yeah I know. It isnt that great. However within my suggestion I wanted to raise its attack value as it would allow him to grind tarpits and weaker units better thanks to having more attacks and those attacks would still be present against his intended targets making him better against the intended targets also.I think there can be a sweetspot for specialized units where they are nothing more than okay against targets which isnt their niche, boostable with magic they can still win matchups that arent in their favour and against their intended targets they just shines.

    If put into numbers such a unit could be at 60% power level against an opponent outside of its niche. The opponent could be said to generally have a power level of 80% and against the intended target such units would be att a 100% or even above that when it comes to power level.

    For me the biggest problem with the titanslayer chariot is that even against an opponent bringing a gigantic model its not that easy to catch it or in some cases even kill it (say hello to the steamtank).
    It just kinda chills and gives dagger stares at its intended target. But just like a mean dog it wont get past the fence to actually hurt what it wants to bite.
    I used the slayer mostly to support my succubi. bringing in a few attacks with high s high ap.

    I would like to see it make attacks different from the infanterie (more quality, less quantity) and different from the other chariots (they want to blend infanterie). But still able to patch the infanteries weakness if needed (killing high armoured things).

    At the moment its okay at that. cheap enough and the attacks are good. but against its intended target the titanslayer is a little dissapointing.

    Against giants and stuff, im sure it would feel good. But i dont see them. The bigger targets are either non catchable (phoenix, etc.) or too tanky (steam tank, Treefather (?)) or both (Dragon).

    But maybe its just me and i am unable to maneuver smart enough ^^
  • squalie_SK wrote:

    The things I want the Titanslayer to kill (Sphinx's) have a good belly laugh when I charge them. And then the Dread smacks me into oblivion and then heals any wounds I MAY have done, lol.
    Perhaps the model needs a tweak in how it is designed? Currently its design is all tied to it succesfully charging to deal with a monster, if it doesnt charge, it cannot really kill the monster in many cases.
    Perhaps a change to where its MW ability is tied to? Make the chariot being D6 impacthits but without MW. And give the Chthonic Machinator the Multiple wounds D3, that way it can be charged by the monster and possibly grind it out or get the charge in and stack som of those S7 impacts onto it.
    The Chthonic Machinator has OS 3 and S6 so it isnt really going to be able to really devestate its targets, but in a prolonged fight it will turn out better for the unit aswell as taking away some of the RPS of the chariot actually getting of its charge versus its targets.
  • New

    Until there are armies with a lot of AS 1+ or 2+ characters/units (wotdg, koe etc), i will always be against the idea of lowering AP on current units.

    We already have problems against them because a lot of units have ap1 or 2 max (p.s. piercing spike is too expensive)....if you lower ap, we could easily auto concede against as 1/2+ armies
  • New

    No one can seriously say that, yet. Working preparations have started but are far from being finished.

    If you want to increase the likelyhood help in one of the armylist analysis threads in the armiesboards.

    Advisary Board Member

    Workfields: Tournament Analysis, Army Community Support, Playtesting, Community Engagement, Translation/ United Nations DE Poke/Tag me if I forgot you. The Fluxxcard App Blog: Inside TA. The biggest german Tabletop Board.
  • New

    skipschnit wrote:

    Here’s a bit of a community project/question....




    I need as many of you to answer that over the next few days, say by next Wednesday the 14th of August. If you just want to put 3 in each, great. If you want to assign a level of importance, that is fine, too. Just let me know what is your order of preference.

    Thanks
    In order of appearance/

    1) Of all of the non-character units available in the Book, which 3 would it be more immersive if they had AP 0?

    Hoarders to me their role as nothing to do with ap

    Furies honestly do not see why do they have ap1 (cound be +1 S +1 ap on charge, if anybody ever charges them onto anything)

    Veil serpents ap 0 would be more immersing their role is not to have ap is to be a conclave and if I get them cheaper hurrah

    2) Of all of the non-character units available in the Book, which 3 would be better to have lower AP and higher strength?

    Clawed fiends S5 or S6 AP0 would be more in line with killing large, since the AP2 could be put on smother making them less good
    against monsters and standard

    The impact hits of the titanslayer chariot would be better at S8 AP1 (I want to wound my monster for sure and at this moment he wounds
    the great green idol and the UD monsters in 5+

    These are the only two that I see

    Of all of the non-character units available in the book, which 3 absolutely need their current S/AP values to be relevant for both background feel and game play?

    The core units; Lemures, Succubi and Myrmidons

    all the best

    Paulo
    Dread Elves first and foremost
  • New

    squalie_SK wrote:

    To be fair, it’s more of a complaint about the Sphinxs that have ALL the rules than the slayer chariot.

    I give it centipede legs and it does just fine against most monsters. A Kraken will make me wince though.
    The titan would be nicer with S8 and AP1

    But in the ETC I killed a Rock Auroch (my little titanslayer made a 10" charge) and made 3 impacts (5 5 1 for MW- resulting in 5 wounds instead of 7 since he divises the MW) and then the myrmidons killed him. The chtonic did not even touch him.

    best regards

    Paulo
    Dread Elves first and foremost
  • New

    skipschnit wrote:

    Here’s a bit of a community project/question....

    Of all of the non-character units available in the Book, which 3 would it be more immersive if they had AP 0?

    None, at most furies as they die without doing anything most of the time anyway.



    Of all of the non-character units available in the Book, which 3 would be better to have lower AP and higher strength?


    None


    Of all of the non-character units available in the book, which 3 absolutely need their current S/AP values to be relevant for both background feel and game play?


    I don't see the issue of even less AP than now, DL is already specialized, most units have AP 1, those that have more are designed that way on purpose.

    I need as many of you to answer that over the next few days, say by next Wednesday the 14th of August. If you just want to put 3 in each, great. If you want to assign a level of importance, that is fine, too. Just let me know what is your order of preference.

    Thanks


    The Fiends are only taken because hoarders, brazen beasts and flies were nerfed. Hoarders should get access to mirrored scales, and living shield, brazen should pay less for red haze after the nerf (or better, let the player decide to use it again, as it was before), and flies acid blood should work with failed saves instead of failed fortitude saves.
    Then we would see a mix of those units, as it should be. Nerfing the next things because after the overnerf they are used more often is spiraling in the wrong direction.
  • New

    how much time do we have to fix design issues within the book? What are reasonable changes that we can expect, and im talking about the scope of changes (points, stats, rules, archetype or even direction?)
    What would the project need for us to produce for there to actually change anything?

    Because frankly, im not enjoying the book, at all, and its far from being rewarding internally during list building aswell as there isnt really much difference between the lists and the playstyle that they produce.
  • New

    Ofc I will contribute :), just did my part in the survey.


    IoRi78 wrote:

    what exactly did you not enjoy? Because the book, asaid from known problems, book is not so horrible I think.
    Each list feels the same to me, and I know that you are with me on atleast some of the issues like gigantic GDs not being in a good spot.
    But to be fair, I dont know what out intended playstyles is and each list feels like it has the same or atleast very similar moving parts within it.
    It has standard characters who "need" to support guiding manifestations to units to be of the same competative level (id rather play without) but that wont give my units the same ability on the floor since they are once more designed to be competative with 1-2 manifestations on them.
    We are still not an army that is viable to play infantry based as its minimum sized core that is brought and then the monstrous stuff from special which currently only is Fiends or Crushers.
    Our manifestations are in a kinda Ok spot to compensate units for the lack of mundane items so thats nice I guess, however for characters they are not even there it feels like.

    So If I were to compile a list with what I like versus dislike it would be something like.

    Like:
    Manifestation options on units, its nice to finally have a book where I can effect my units output.
    Standard sized GD´s, the inclusion of standard sized GDs is really nice and creates diversity even if atleast two of the needs some work IMO.
    Manifestation spell, its fitting for the army and the army strenght.
    Immortal denizens, I like the racial and even the heavy backside of 2 VTs to the opponent. However I am curius if any other faction will directly buff their enemy.
    Some of the working units have great diversity which we should try to keep. Succubi, Myrmidons, Fiends, Crushers, Hoarders, Lemures. This independently if they currently are externally strong or not.

    Dislike:
    What are our intended playstyles? It only feels like its is a mash of fast melee lists with some chaff currently, max out on fiends or Hounds together with gremlings or furies aswell as the core block of your choice with guiding manifestation.
    Diversity of paths, both evo and div are so similar so it feels like you always are dubbling down on spells.
    Shooting options are dead, that together with our only mundane weapon option darkfire being a joke.
    There are no diversity amongst defensive options so you either go with Miser or you are squish, nothing comparable to 1+ AS with 4-5++ aegis.
    Very little % of output comes from character builds so they are rather similar between going naked or bringing manifestations, only guiding makes a large impact.
    Monstermash option is dead.
    No idea to field a infantry based list with only core units being blocks.
    No mount options are competative as the output that you can create from builds or the defensive aspects are negligible, so cowboys are pretty much dead.
    Chariots are wierd and weak and the only fix they get each update is point reduction to try and find the sweet spot, this kinda gives off the vibes of the armies eliteness dropping from each iteration.
    We cannot make any efficient flying circus any longer thanks to the state of flying GDs and the nature of flies and serpents being support units.
    Darkhide which were supposed to be a flavour to the army as suddenly appearing on the table is nothing more than an unusable niche without much of any impact against the opponent, you invest points in it and in 50% of the cases it has no effect at all since the opponent can dropp everything he wants if he sees such a list rendering its effect useless and actually hurting your lists power.

    Tbh I feel that the internal balance is really.. lacking. And that what choices I have as a player are what units I bring, and thank god what manifestations I put on them. Other than that it feels very vanilla in flavour.

    Played a game today where I tried some other units than the normal Big block of combat infantry together with a standard sized GD and maxing out on Fiends. I was disapointed to say the least.