This forum is largely a sleep, and internal staff forum is probably the reason why

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  • Shlagrabak wrote:

    Do we have the numbers for posting rates over the last, say 6 months?
    I could provide that easily enough, but I would need special authorization to access the database and get the numbers.
    @Grimbold Blackhammer, as admin and member of the ExB, would you mind if I did?
    Professionally printed Magic cards

    I’m no lord. I’ve more respect for myself than that. - Mat Cauthon
  • JimMorr wrote:

    Today I have a feeling (again an opinion) that Project is hiding from community to prevent negative feedback. That decisions like freezing army books were taken not only to free resources but to calm down forum rage.


    I can assure you that preventing community rage played no part in the decision to freeze.
    The feedback about this was very strong. Even with WotDG recently, you can see people posting who are glad that it is now gold and they were sick of the constant changes.
    The freeze is a difficult thing because it directly divides some of the different sub-groups in the community.



    And I am afraid (again a humble opinion) that you might have gone too far in that direction.
    And yet the project gets so much feedback about communities that are growing because of the freeze.
    Do not confuse the forum with the community; t
    here are selection effects to the forum: it is not an unbiased tracer of the community.
    Being supportive & giving useful criticism aren't mutually exclusive.
    Are you supportive of the project? Do your posts reflect that?

    List repository and links HERE
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  • DanT wrote:

    JimMorr wrote:



    And I am afraid (again a humble opinion) that you might have gone too far in that direction.
    And yet the project gets so much feedback about communities that are growing because of the freeze.
    Do not confuse the forum with the community; t
    here are selection effects to the forum: it is not an unbiased tracer of the community.

    Yes but nut not underestimated the undirected impact of forum activity on this community growing.
    Maintain activity and news hype with change, bad buzz and controvertial discussion is really important also. Its long term invest.
    An actual slow down in most internet T9A geek community member, could have an impact in IRL community 6 month or 1 year later.
    Because Forum member is of course the most addicted to the project and the better PR of our community.

    The player that are not invested into the forum, will potentially change game easily, as they are less invested emotionnaly into the game.

    That why T9a like any other companie is doomed to maintain regular news and change. But i think and hope actual FAB work should be enough for the moment, and maybe once per year balance cost update for all book if needed ;)
    cas-p.net / graphic & web designer.
    SE - VS - O&G - EoS / 9th age player.
  • Casp wrote:

    Yes but nut not underestimated the undirected impact of forum activity on this community growing.Maintain activity and news hype with change, bad buzz and controvertial discussion is really important also. Its long term invest.
    An actual slow down in most internet T9A geek community member, could have an impact in IRL community 6 month or 1 year later.
    Because Forum member is of course the most addicted to the project and the better PR of our community.

    The player that are not invested into the forum, will potentially change game easily, as they are less invested emotionnaly into the game.

    That why T9a like any other companie is doomed to maintain regular news and change. But i think and hope actual FAB work should be enough for the moment, and maybe once per year balance cost update for all book if needed ;)
    I know gaming groups in which zero members post on this forum.
    Posting a lot doesn't make people necessarily emotionally invested in playing the game or spreading the game.
    Heck, there are regular posters who say flat out that they don't play the game.
    And I know people who are interested in t9a because they are sick of the constant churn and change of commercial companies.
    Which isn't to say that the things you are asserting are wrong... just that the wider community is strongly heterogeneous, and that any strong assertions are likely to be somewhere between incomplete and outright wrong.
    How to square that circle, I don't know. But this is part of why I advocate for individuals doing the things that will work for their local community, rather than everyone and their aunt demanding different (even opposing) things from the central project.
    Being supportive & giving useful criticism aren't mutually exclusive.
    Are you supportive of the project? Do your posts reflect that?

    List repository and links HERE
    Basic beginners tactics HERE
  • DanT wrote:

    I know gaming groups in which zero members post on this forum.
    But how those group have listen about T9A for the first time ^^.. I am pretty sure, if you follow the rumor, you will at the end of the process find some internet invested community member and if they maybe dont post a lot, at least have they read and follow news about T9A. That why i am talking about long terms. The unrationnal feeling of T9A beeing attractive and alive, is something crucial, and that could be modify slowly if we do not pay attention.

    DanT wrote:

    And I know people who are interested in t9a because they are sick of the constant churn and change of commercial companies.
    Yes of course, and you will certainly find a lot of people with the same opinion that play those commercial game anyways. So why companies prefer continue their politics rather than satisfying those customers ? Its not only to sell new product, its also to keep the brand attractive because the human brain isent pretty rationnal.
    Lots of people say they dont want change, but lot of them will left the game, if they feels the hype go down and the game itself dosent look active and alive.

    Of course Turnament, and local club play a major role in this feeling, but the higher step wich is the T9A team, represented by this forum, as also a major role even less direct.

    Now as i said i hope and beleived, our actual release, is enough, to maintain the feeling of T9A beeing an active project. As long any player is impacted by a new at least once per year, it should be enough.

    And about forum activity maybe with time should we rethink the forum. Reducing the public side, and increasing the team side, but making visible some part of the team side forum ? But anyway, for the moment, i dont feel any real issue, the forum still have an activity decent.
    cas-p.net / graphic & web designer.
    SE - VS - O&G - EoS / 9th age player.
  • Iluvatar wrote:

    Shlagrabak wrote:

    Do we have the numbers for posting rates over the last, say 6 months?
    I could provide that easily enough, but I would need special authorization to access the database and get the numbers.@Grimbold Blackhammer, as admin and member of the ExB, would you mind if I did?
    Sure, I like seeing these numbers too!

    Executive Board

    Administrator

    Human Resources



    Want to help out? The 9th Age is an all volunteer organization and we're always looking for like-minded folks! Message me if you are interested!!
  • Kanadian wrote:

    Guys 2.0 came out, we all played agreed it was good and then .... well nothing happened, no new things to keep people exited.

    What we could do is get the auxiliary list done.. not even balanced, if we don't get people to try new stuff well it will get boring really fast.
    i agree what kanadian said. Its strange that chaos get love but others do not.

    But unlike kanadian, in my eyes 9th age lost its shine when rules and army building was made more complicated. In 1.3 it was more familiar but when the new profile came, i stopped playing. And there is too much limitations for suggestions what armies may have or may not have. I was frustated to designers of koe.

    If something good have to say. Then it its that this encourage people to make their own game systems. If path of 9th age changes, i think it would help people to enjoy this game more.
  • Kanadian wrote:

    Guys 2.0 came out, we all played agreed it was good and then .... well nothing happened, no new things to keep people exited.

    What we could do is get the auxiliary list done.. not even balanced, if we don't get people to try new stuff well it will get boring really fast.

    But partly that is because of the effort put into making 2.0.
    Once the project gets up to speed with 3-4 LABs per year, there will be enough change.
    But this will never happen if resources are being constantly sunk into meddling with all of the books.

    Although, I don't agree with your premise.
    I am certainly not getting bored, because there is soo much to explore in each book. Far more so than in legacy systems where half the units could be written off within a week of a book's release.
    Furthermore, people went through many drought periods with GW, so I'm not sure I buy that people get so bored so quickly.
    Certainly it does not seem to generally be the case amongst the UK scene.

    Bretboy84 wrote:

    i agree what kanadian said. Its strange that chaos get love but others do not.
    But unlike kanadian, in my eyes 9th age lost its shine when rules and army building was made more complicated. In 1.3 it was more familiar but when the new profile came, i stopped playing. And there is too much limitations for suggestions what armies may have or may not have. I was frustated to designers of koe.

    If something good have to say. Then it its that this encourage people to make their own game systems. If path of 9th age changes, i think it would help people to enjoy this game more.

    Someone has to be first in terms of the LABs; KoE will get their turn.
    In terms of limitations for future directions of armies etc, the internal structures/staff etc have changed significantly since then; I think the new process, staff churn etc will remove at least some of your previous objections when KoE get done.
    Being supportive & giving useful criticism aren't mutually exclusive.
    Are you supportive of the project? Do your posts reflect that?

    List repository and links HERE
    Basic beginners tactics HERE
  • Main message:
    Please please, Come join us and help out. We desperately need good people.


    Next, a comment to the title of the thread...

    I have three (small) kids. I have a super demanding real life job, and we are expanding the house. I check social medias ones a week if at all, and I spend 10 minutes a week reading posts on 9th age not strictly needed for my role.

    Should I prioritize differently.... Or what is it you are complaining about.....? This is what I have done on 9th age the last few days:

    Thursday:
    • 1½ hour Completing last replies to comments from heads across the production area and from ACS on the Infernal Dwarf Legendary Army Book (ID LAB) following Sprint 3 review. Book is approx 40 pages by now and we received 4-5 full pages of comments. Sharing the replies to comments internally and ensure we lock all for legal/IP documentation purposes.
    Friday:
    • 1 hour: Prepare for ID LAB core team meeting, updating and reviewing the Sprint 4 deliverables and entering in the word document for revisions by Rules Clarity.
    • 2½ hour work meeting going through all new entrees to align and optimize new stuff being added. Agree on next steps for sprint 5, which is expected to be the last in the Conceptual phase before proceeding to Mechanics phase and start building actual profiles/stats.
    Saturday:
    • 2½ hour: Updating the work document and with change log etc and submit for stakeholder review
    • ½-1 hour create new tasks for Sprint 5.
    • ½ hour (to do now): update time tables for the 10ish different project currently ongoing in the PRO area.
    • 15 min, all sorts of minor things (coordinate news for Scroll, update ExB on timelines etc)


    Again...
    Please please, Come join us and help out. We desperately need good people to help out.

    Product Owner - ID LAB

    Alone you may go faster but together we go further ;)
  • Windelov wrote:

    Please please, Come join us and help out. We desperately need good people to help out.
    @Shako and I would love some help with tourney data entries too.


    Dear Forum Community,

    Upset by a lack of transparency and balance?

    Here's your chance to do both:
    HBE: Please help your ACS and TA on doing tourneylist analysis
    ID: Please help your ACS and TA on doing tourneylist analysis
    SA: Saurian Ancients INTERNAL BALANCE: Please help your ACS and TA with Tourneylist Analysis
    VC: INTERNAL BALANCE: Please help your ACS and TA with Tourneylist Analysis

    And coming soon...
    WDG 2.2
    DL 2.2
    DE

    And then the rest.

    Yay for balance transparency! Yay for collective involvement! Yay for doing more and complaining less!
    :P :P :P

    Open Source INTERNAL BALANCE: HBE | DL 2.2 | WDG 2.2 | ID | SA | VC

    The post was edited 1 time, last by There Is No Spoon ().

  • I mean, I'd think transparency about the design process would mean a bit more than just "more tournament data". Even if that seems to be all every discussion ever ends up as. Tournaments, tournaments, tournaments.
    A summary of all proposed ideas from the VS LAB brainstorm thread

    MAKE THE SWARM COWARDLY AGAIN!
    WE DEMAND TERRIBLE LEADERSHIP!
    DOWN WITH COMPETENT GENERALS!
  • Eldan wrote:

    I mean, I'd think transparency about the design process would mean a bit more than just "more tournament data". Even if that seems to be all every discussion ever ends up as. Tournaments, tournaments, tournaments.

    Windelov wrote:

    Hi all,

    The PRO optimization team produced this massive Legendary Army Book Design Process for how to produce new Legendary Army Books (LABs, new name of FABs). The goal was to produce LABs at a faster pace, while maintaining quality. The current pace for LABs is about 18 months per book (24 years to complete all 16), even if doubling pace to 9 month per book now with the BRB in GOLD, we would only be done around 2030.

    In the new process, we target completion by 2024-5, and part of that is by driven by the introduction of a new workflow inspired by the Agile work methodology and learning from the experience of teams. A lot of questions were raised on what this new process actually means and what this "agile" thing is about.

    If googling "agile", you will get a lot of stuff about the software industry and continues improvements. I think most of us want to end the continues updates of books, and I want to make clear that the new process is completely aligned with delivering LABs which will be locked after a public beta playtesting phase. In the below, I tried to explain my view on it as a person who is not working with Agile in my Real Life job.


    First difference is empowerment.
    We have had FAB teams with representatives before but they were simply one cog in a big machine and the work was conducted in full teams (RT, BLT, ADT, CDS, BGT) who then communicated back and fourth through threads and multiple PMs. As all in each team (perhaps ADT excepted) were engaged, it was difficult to run multiple books. The new LAB team are cross functional AND fully empowered meaning that the work happens inside the team and you free capacity to run multiple books.






    Next, quality validation by customers: [/b]
    Now the big question raised by many. Can we really trust that this small team designs the book that I would like to see and that maintains the balance that I find right? The prior process worked on perfect first time according to the interpretation (mostly theoritical) of how the book would play and what players would like. The new process focus on testing different solutions early with players and then create perfection through iterations.



    How do we preserve consistency across books?
    In the old process, we sometimes all debated (endlessly) on what exactly a light horseman should be like. The process often stalled for weeks before the rules production could restart with little satisfaction to those involved.


    The new process introduces a much more extensive package early that makes a "safe space" for designer to explore and develop. This ensures a clear and transparently defined role of the army. The team may challenge some parts but should then thoroughly justify it in agreement with the larger teams.









    But why do we want to test a product we know is not perfect?
    When looking at this from a high level timeline perspective, the new process aims for having a complete draft book completed very very early to allow for a more holistic evaluation based on actual games played. This allows for more manouvre room and for more crazy ideas as there is still time to make significant changes. In the current setup, we heavily depend on what we believe the customers will like, in the new process we test early to fix root cause issues, which should reducere need for complex later fixes.







    So I hope this provided a bit clarity on why we believe this new process could faciliate a smarter, more enjoyable and more productive workflow for Legendary Army Books. The illustrations and conclusions are based on my interpretation and assessment.

    Best
    Nis

    Now for Infernal Dwarfs, we are currently in the conceptual phase where things are quite abstract, changing a lot fast and is difficult for the community to assess. We expect to share much more as soon as things gets more concrete.

    I hope this at least provides some clarity :)

    Product Owner - ID LAB

    Alone you may go faster but together we go further ;)

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Windelov ().

  • Why allways more infos on tourney stuff at a faster speed than other things?

    Different openess projects and ideas are also in the work, but most of them need coordination and participation over different teams and hirarchies. That simply takes more time than things which basically run in team. (And if you knew since when work on different incarnations of the analysis tools were done...)

    If for example we would like to share something about the monthly AvB/ExB meetings, than the following steps should happen:
    a) the protocol should be written
    b) the protocol should be agreed on and be cleared (at least from whole ExB)
    c) The protocol should than be worded in a way which does not let people fall asleep (oh ExB falling asleep could a the reason, for b taking long
    d) Lectoring does its magic
    e) PR than brings it to you

    Opening Tourney List Analysis staff is far easier and faster as it always follows a certain schemeatic and can use done prework (from RT).

    Advisary Board Member

    Workfields: Tournament Analysis, Army Community Support, Playtesting, Community Engagement, Translation/ United Nations DE Blog: Inside TA. The biggest german Tabletop Board: tabletopwelt.de