Dread Elf LAB Brainstorm/Ideas thread.

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  • Squirrelloid wrote:

    HbE certainly has better farmers, better artists, better actors, and so forth than DE does, because they don't have something like 75%+ of their population trained for warfare and capable of serving under arms.
    I would not be so quick to make such statements. For average Joe Legionnaire when they get home from a campaign the most likely activity they will be doing is farming. Then there will artists, poets, carpenters, jewellers etc... I really do not see DE inferior to HE in such matter. Further more HE also have professional military training and education/skill maintenance for their standard troops. What differs between the DE and HE is when the education happens, how long it is and how centralised is its maintenance. Just as with historical inspirations for these two factions so has the BGT chosen two different paths for the factions in our setting, both paths which are appropriate to the themes attached to both factions as well as being a basis for a sustainable military structure within their societies.


    Squirrelloid wrote:

    To achieve DE > SE > HbE spears (which should be the proper ordering)
    That is a proper ordering in your mind but does not match what each of these spear armed groups represent in their societies.


    Squirrelloid wrote:

    It's why DE fought a war of independence, because they didn't want to be controlled by distant nobles.
    Except DE have their own nobles. I think the point is on "distant" rather than nobles. A standard Legionnaire is in many ways as dependant on the DE nobility as the a standard Citizen Spear is on the HE nobility.


    Squirrelloid wrote:

    Fact of the matter is, HbE having a lot of 'dirty peasants' is the only thing that makes sense with the background that exists for DE, because they wanted to make DE into 'dirty peasants' is explicitly part of the background.
    There is little point arguing HE (and DE) have a lot of people who partake in farming. Food is the backbone of societies.


    Squirrelloid wrote:

    Basically, it's not Greece without slavery, it's England with feudalism.
    Based on the statement I am inclined to speculate that you have a rather narrow view how society functioned in Iron Age polises of ancient Greece.



    Any way as interesting as this back and forth may be @WhammeWhamme we should not continue it here because to conduct it properly we would have to discuss background that is not intended for release at the moment which is counter productive. I have already seen statements from people with access to the wiki which go beyond what has been previously released on the subjects at hand.


    So please lets go back to brainstorming ideas for the new LAB :)

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  • Here's a couple of random idea/musing I had about Academy units

    Academy Trained : Other friendly units in the same combat as this unit gain +1 ap to their attacks.

    Its kind of a way to show units coordinating attacks, simulating the 'set 'em up, knock 'em down' (feints, tricks, etc) way of fighting.

    -or-

    Academy Trained : Friendly units in this units rear arc may make shooting attacks against units engaged with the front of this unit as if that unit was no longer engaged. Wounds caused contribute to this rounds combat resolution as if they were melee attacks caused this turn.

    Maybe simulates a methodical movement in the ranks of these units, where they open up ranks at certain times to allow firing lanes. Pretty unfair and basic rule breaking tho.

    -or-

    Academy Trained : When engaged with a unit with more ranks than this unit, this unit gains Death Trance.

    I like "never tell me the odds" rules.
  • lifeasalizard wrote:

    Here's a couple of random idea/musing I had about Academy units

    Academy Trained : Other friendly units in the same combat as this unit gain +1 ap to their attacks.

    Its kind of a way to show units coordinating attacks, simulating the 'set 'em up, knock 'em down' (feints, tricks, etc) way of fighting.

    -or-

    Academy Trained : Friendly units in this units rear arc may make shooting attacks against units engaged with the front of this unit as if that unit was no longer engaged. Wounds caused contribute to this rounds combat resolution as if they were melee attacks caused this turn.

    Maybe simulates a methodical movement in the ranks of these units, where they open up ranks at certain times to allow firing lanes. Pretty unfair and basic rule breaking tho.

    -or-

    Academy Trained : When engaged with a unit with more ranks than this unit, this unit gains Death Trance.

    I like "never tell me the odds" rules.
    some solid ideas. I think this type of rules is something we could see. Maybe not exactly the same, but he mechanics involved are in line. I believe to encourage mmu we have to get benefits from multi charges and the such.
  • Academy Trained:
    -When engaged only in its front facing, the unit gains +1 Combat Resolution. If engaged in its flank or rear, it gains an additional -1 Combat Resolution instead.

    Helps multiple unit strategies, punishes bad plays. Thoughts?
    "You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" -Death
    Phae's Pointy-Ear Blog: Elves in a Corner
  • Phaeoron wrote:

    Academy Trained:
    -When engaged only in its front facing, the unit gains +1 Combat Resolution. If engaged in its flank or rear, it gains an additional -1 Combat Resolution instead.

    Helps multiple unit strategies, punishes bad plays. Thoughts?
    So my biggest beefs for mmu style of play AND glasscannon is as follows: we die as soon as a unit is steadfast/body guard/stubborn. We have to hit units and break them. This almost is impossible to accomplish through stat lines or extra wound rules. This is accomplished through getting into flanks/rears, disrupting rally around the flag/inspiring presence, and lowering leadership with fear or something like it. I’m interested in seeing things that help us do this.

    One idea: banner enchantment(1 use only if found to be very strong?) academy unit only: this unit may declare a charge (if possible under the guidelines of charging) into a units flank or rear if that unit is engaged with another academy unit even if the enemy unit is in its front arc.

    This is just an idea throwing out there. The goal again in my mind is to help break steadfast. I almost never lose combats round 1, or 2 or even 3 but eventually my r3 5+ armor elves die to inferior units if they get in a slugging match..
  • Isn't steadfast as a counter to MSU/MMU tactics kinda necessary though? Without it units like goblins would never see play. Yeah it's a pain when your opponent puts three big blocks next to each other to guard the flanks, but how on earth could they hope to compete if we could just rush their face and pop them one block at a time?



    Undead are a pain though cuz you can't break them even if you get the flank, and frankly i have no idea how to win against endlessly raising hordes with neither DE or SE since I can't touch their tar pits, ranged does nothing and i can't really challenge objectives...

    Last time I played VC I charged a treefather, wild huntsmen AND blade dancers in the front of a 30+ ghoul block with a vamp that was guarded on the flanks by two zombie blocks. The dancers had +1Str spell on them, and after 14 kills on the initial round they just ate through everything i had and while at the lowest they had like 11 ghouls in the unit, by the time my stuff was dead there was again 20+ (took 3 or 4 rounds of combat).

    Even under ideal circumstances that combat was an excercise in futility (i wanted to try that anyway knowing it was gonna be hard cuz the scenario was hold the middle out of all things, just try getting that objective with MSU/MMU elves 8o )
    "You need to believe in things that aren't true. How else can they become?" -Death
    Phae's Pointy-Ear Blog: Elves in a Corner
  • Eol wrote:

    echoCTRL wrote:

    What new unit(s) would you all want for the Academy theme?
    I’d like to add Corsairs, supporting with ambush rule or similar effect
    Explaining myself a bit, I´d like to see as Academy units:

    Basic Academy units: Leggionaries (Infantry base: Spearmen, xbows, hand weapon and shield....and why not consider other HTH weapons...)
    Elite Academy units: Corsairs, Tower ward, Raptor Knights and Raptor Chariots.

    Leaving other units to other categories (cults, beasts...) IMHO it make sense to have diferent levels of eliteness, from basic soldiers to elite ones.
    I used to be Suddenwind... :)
  • Giladis wrote:

    I would not be so quick to make such statements. For average Joe Legionnaire when they get home from a campaign the most likely activity they will be doing is farming. Then there will artists, poets, carpenters, jewellers etc... I really do not see DE inferior to HE in such matter.
    Power word: Slaves.

    That is all
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  • GSbasic wrote:

    lifeasalizard wrote:

    Here's a couple of random idea/musing I had about Academy units

    Academy Trained : Other friendly units in the same combat as this unit gain +1 ap to their attacks.

    Its kind of a way to show units coordinating attacks, simulating the 'set 'em up, knock 'em down' (feints, tricks, etc) way of fighting.

    -or-

    Academy Trained : Friendly units in this units rear arc may make shooting attacks against units engaged with the front of this unit as if that unit was no longer engaged. Wounds caused contribute to this rounds combat resolution as if they were melee attacks caused this turn.

    Maybe simulates a methodical movement in the ranks of these units, where they open up ranks at certain times to allow firing lanes. Pretty unfair and basic rule breaking tho.

    -or-

    Academy Trained : When engaged with a unit with more ranks than this unit, this unit gains Death Trance.

    I like "never tell me the odds" rules.
    some solid ideas. I think this type of rules is something we could see. Maybe not exactly the same, but he mechanics involved are in line. I believe to encourage mmu we have to get benefits from multi charges and the such.
    Another idea could be :

    Academy warfare tactics: DE academy warriors fight considering and being awareness of their unit role in the battle. An enemy unit enganged with an Academy unit will reduce 1 point / other Academy units in 18" (max 3) their break tests and combat reform tests. This modifier reduce steadfast and stubborn tests.

    I hope that you understand the idea.
    I used to be Suddenwind... :)
  • setrius wrote:

    Giladis wrote:

    I would not be so quick to make such statements. For average Joe Legionnaire when they get home from a campaign the most likely activity they will be doing is farming. Then there will artists, poets, carpenters, jewellers etc... I really do not see DE inferior to HE in such matter.
    Power word: Slaves.
    That is all
    If I remember right... HE have some non-elven Kingdoms which they kind of control. Bit like England controlled India for some time.
    I´m quite sure they can send plenty off food.
    It´s like slavery without the name.
  • Darock wrote:

    setrius wrote:

    Giladis wrote:

    I would not be so quick to make such statements. For average Joe Legionnaire when they get home from a campaign the most likely activity they will be doing is farming. Then there will artists, poets, carpenters, jewellers etc... I really do not see DE inferior to HE in such matter.
    Power word: Slaves.That is all
    If I remember right... HE have some non-elven Kingdoms which they kind of control. Bit like England controlled India for some time.I´m quite sure they can send plenty off food.
    It´s like slavery without the name.
    Can't solve food issues - the distances involved are too long, and many foods can't be effectively preserved over those distances.

    Many staples simply have to be grown near where they're consumed before you have modern technology like refrigeration and general preservatives. Only stuff that can be effectively dried or salted can be transported long distances.

    And that's ignoring the food security issue. Can you imagine half the population starving because dread elves raided a bunch of merchant vessels carrying food stores, or because of a hurricane wrecking a fleet? It would be intolerable.
    Just because I'm on the Legal Team doesn't mean I know anything about rules or background in development, and if/when I do, I won't be posting about it. All opinions and speculation are my own - treat them as such.

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  • Academy Trained:
    Academy Trained units are trained to coordinate their movements.
    1. During the Charge Phase, roll simultaneously the Charge Roll for all Academy Trained units. Any Academy Trained unit may use the roll of another Academy Trained unit located at less than 6" instead of its own.
    2. During the Melee Phase, roll simultaneously the Break Tests for all Academy Trained units fighting in the same melee. Any Academy Trained unit may use the roll of another Academy Trained unit located at less than 6" instead of its own.
    Do the same for the Flee Distances and for the Pursuit Distances.

    Fluff: shows the effect of military drills.
    Game: fosters MSU/MMU.

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  • Some of my ideas.

    Academy troops:

    Form Square!: troops can make supporting attacks when engaged in the flanks and rear as if they were engaged in the front.

    Light Company: Auxiliaries gain volley fire and insignificant.

    Cohort discipline: As long as there is another academy unit within 12” break and rally tests are minimised (but not stubborn.)
  • Calisson wrote:

    Academy Trained:
    Academy Trained units are trained to coordinate their movements.
    1. During the Charge Phase, roll simultaneously the Charge Roll for all Academy Trained units. Any Academy Trained unit may use the roll of another Academy Trained unit located at less than 6" instead of its own.
    2. During the Melee Phase, roll simultaneously the Break Tests for all Academy Trained units fighting in the same melee. Any Academy Trained unit may use the roll of another Academy Trained unit located at less than 6" instead of its own.
    Do the same for the Flee Distances and for the Pursuit Distances.
    That sounds great, but looks like a bit OP to me. That rule would be similar to allowing units to repeat their charge, flee... rolls, even more than once, and then choose the better roll!!

    Maybe it would be interesting to add a new character, something like an Accademy Officer (similar to what EoS have, Marshall and Knight Commander) and the boosts you're talking about could be given through him.

    Besides, I have two questions.
    Where is stated the division if units among academy ones, cults, etc... (Which I think It doesn't exist in the current book).

    And all the background you're mentioning, where is written? I couldn't find it anywhere.
  • Completly different area:

    Improve harpies to counter warmachines. As we are limited with special deployment it must be a passive thing.

    I could imagine that an option to shield units/monster against warmachines would be an asset to help the units survive the fire before cc.
    Two options:

    Hapries gain a rule "Crying Skies" that makes them block LoS for Warmachines (not normal small arms fire).
    Very simple, but would enable things like dragon or manticore to be shielded against cannons or R&F units against area damage from WM. The good thing this screen costs points, may have a second use later and against non WM armies and most important - can be killed.

    Or Harpies simply get Large Beasts - at least covering LoS under some circumstances (no hil, etc.). I defently like the first idea more.
    If you do not like 9th Age - fine, it is your right to do so. But do not spoil our fun - go and find your game, be it AoS, 5th Edition, Magic or Dublo

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Uthegen ().

  • Very directive as rule as writen here, but it's a quite good idea.

    For the wording/ruling it might be better : Harpies count as gigantic for cover purpose and (friendly ?) units benefiting from cover provided by Harpies gain Hard Tagret (1). That work for all type of unit, all type of shooting, not too strong (canon can still fire throught them but the -1 to hit will often help to focus the ennemy shooting on the harpie before the attempt, and that's the point).
    1 - Start of the Charge Phase (and start of the Player Turn)
    2 - The Active Player chooses a unit and declares a Charge

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Minidudul ().