Dread Elf LAB Brainstorm/Ideas thread.

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  • Ehakir wrote:

    Keys of the Black Ark

    After seeing what your opponent is bringing to the table, gear up your army with the weapon choices you think are most suitable for the match, choosing for every unit either paired weapons, spear & shield, great weapon, halberd, or 4+ aegis in melee

    ...obviously with some humour intented...
    Now now we still want people to actually play us....and not just flip the table :)
  • about shooting in elves:
    SE have longest range- 36 with longbows, and if I remeber correctly 30 in aswell - long range shooting
    HBE have still long, but little less than SE- normal type is 30 in, but they have access to 36 (in core) and 24 if i remember correctly
    DE IMO should have shorter- medium range- shooting- with 24in normal, and with options for 30" and 18"

    that way it could be logical and distinguishable between races

    and if lab team go all for 18 inches it would be a great mistake from their part

    similar approach can be made in melee and magic between elves

    don't make a mistake of ID lab team, they overamplyfy their shooting capabilities (18" and march and shoot is not a short range shooting, short range shooting is 8 inches- thrown weapon, up to 12 inces (pistols, non- carbine firearms). And I feel DE lab team will do same thing, but in opposite direction, they make shooting underpowered (dwarfs have resilience to take a charge after shooting, plus their shooting is overall more effective) and I hate it, shooting is important factor of melee army (soften opponent before charge)
  • Radian wrote:

    Got an idea for spear elves
    Okay, going along eith roman theme we could use pilum like tactics, basically reversed impact hits
    If a unit is charged or is performing a charge all of r&f models immediately perform shooting attack on aim as would hit in melee (1 per model, s3 ap1) at target. This attack can be made two times per battle, after second unit looses spears
    Maybe wording could be changed (ie. At initiative 10, but it wouldnt add to combat score, to nerf it a little)
    I love all kind of ideas about heavy first strike for DE. I think those are the best fitting for us, then we can loose in extended combat of course.

    I would like to see general use across the army of rules like swiftstride, hatred, death trance, or that pilum idea. Maybe those would be interesting ideas for cults, aswell as Aegis 6+ for the entire army vs shooting.

    Regarding to our repeater auxiliers I like the idea of them advancing to the enemy alongside the army, I would like them to have Quick to fire, maybe would be better for the repeater crossbow itself, so we can have back the City Guard



    And the auxiliers can have alsosome sort of Feigned flight or insignificant units, so fleeing wouldn't be an issue
  • Sylvans only have 36” by putting Banner of Speed on a shooting unit (does ANYONE do that???) IF you include their movement. Though considering you are NOT including movement when talking about DE shooting, that becomes questionable.

    HbE have 36” IF you put Banner of Speed on a unit of Archers/Queensguard . NOBODY does this. HbE shooting is penalized for moving unless you invest in a character. Also, again, you aren’t including movement when talking about Dread Elf shooting despite including movement when discussing HbE and SE shooting.

    You don’t want differentiation between the elven armies. You want long range shooting (like your suggestion of 36” range repeater crossbows). Extra range won’t make your S3 shooting any better.
  • I was thinking regarding Special items that Trascendence has (in my opinion) the opposite design principle to what I expect from DE: it makes you stronger along the time. I rather Only one use /only first strike /only charge items, that fits better to us.

    Maybe regarding shooting protection would be interesting some sort of only one use spell/curse which makes all shooting Long Range modified that shooting phase.

    The post was edited 1 time, last by armazingerz ().

  • Aenarion43 wrote:

    Sylvans only have 36” by putting Banner of Speed on a shooting unit (does ANYONE do that???) IF you include their movement. Though considering you are NOT including movement when talking about DE shooting, that becomes questionable.

    HbE have 36” IF you put Banner of Speed on a unit of Archers/Queensguard . NOBODY does this. HbE shooting is penalized for moving unless you invest in a character. Also, again, you aren’t including movement when talking about Dread Elf shooting despite including movement when discussing HbE and SE shooting.

    You don’t want differentiation between the elven armies. You want long range shooting (like your suggestion of 36” range repeater crossbows). Extra range won’t make your S3 shooting any better.
    ohh so I made a mistake, dunno why I thought longbows were 36 inches range, bows 30 and shortbows 24 lol
    so okay, now it seems a bit off, but still works, 30 inches for SE, 30 for HBE. 24 for DE!

    armazingerz wrote:

    Radian wrote:

    Got an idea for spear elves
    Okay, going along eith roman theme we could use pilum like tactics, basically reversed impact hits
    If a unit is charged or is performing a charge all of r&f models immediately perform shooting attack on aim as would hit in melee (1 per model, s3 ap1) at target. This attack can be made two times per battle, after second unit looses spears
    Maybe wording could be changed (ie. At initiative 10, but it wouldnt add to combat score, to nerf it a little)
    I love all kind of ideas about heavy first strike for DE. I think those are the best fitting for us, then we can loose in extended combat of course.
    I would like to see general use across the army of rules like swiftstride, hatred, death trance, or that pilum idea. Maybe those would be interesting ideas for cults, aswell as Aegis 6+ for the entire army vs shooting.

    Regarding to our repeater auxiliers I like the idea of them advancing to the enemy alongside the army, I would like them to have Quick to fire, maybe would be better for the repeater crossbow itself, so we can have back the City Guard



    And the auxiliers can have alsosome sort of Feigned flight or insignificant units, so fleeing wouldn't be an issue
    i like this unit, especially with some kind of supporting for other units (cover fire of hbe is really nice and works well). but IDK why DE would be only elven race to so shorten it's range (almost 2x shorter! not 1/5 like now, 2 times! it's crazy!)

    Aenarion43 wrote:

    Extra range won’t make your S3 shooting any better.
    range is most important thing in this game, and most important aspect of shooting weapon, so I'll disagree with you
  • Sounds like a terrible nerf to an already argueable weapon. Without March and shoot you can't even shoot in the first Shooting phase and you have to move too much close of the front.

    I don't understand why they nerf a range which was already inferior to other elves and well tunned.

    Besides, it would be a serious and unnecesary distancing from the former game, game why the most of us get in 9th. Everything from 8th is easily recognizable in the 2020 slim books, that's one thing me and my friends definitively like. If they start to make drastic changes I think many people will stick to 8th, what an unnecesary risk.

    Do we know the release date for the book?

    The post was edited 4 times, last by armazingerz ().

  • Radian wrote:

    Aenarion43 wrote:

    Sylvans only have 36” by putting Banner of Speed on a shooting unit (does ANYONE do that???) IF you include their movement. Though considering you are NOT including movement when talking about DE shooting, that becomes questionable.

    HbE have 36” IF you put Banner of Speed on a unit of Archers/Queensguard . NOBODY does this. HbE shooting is penalized for moving unless you invest in a character. Also, again, you aren’t including movement when talking about Dread Elf shooting despite including movement when discussing HbE and SE shooting.

    You don’t want differentiation between the elven armies. You want long range shooting (like your suggestion of 36” range repeater crossbows). Extra range won’t make your S3 shooting any better.
    ohh so I made a mistake, dunno why I thought longbows were 36 inches range, bows 30 and shortbows 24 lolso okay, now it seems a bit off, but still works, 30 inches for SE, 30 for HBE. 24 for DE!

    Aenarion43 wrote:

    Extra range won’t make your S3 shooting any better.
    range is most important thing in this game, and most important aspect of shooting weapon, so I'll disagree with you
    See, simple range isn't REALLY that much differentiation though. . . especially when the arrows are all so similar. For example:
    "One army gets 24", the others get 30"' isn't much differentiation, as opposed to:
    DE: Short Range, high volume
    SE: Long range, high mobility/low volume
    HbE: Long range, static shooting, low volume

    There's PLENTY of ways that DE could use short range shooting to help themselves. What if your Repeater Crossbows had 18" range (23" threat range with Adv5) but had: a) Volley Fire and b) The ability to "shoot" into a charged unit. So if your opponent tried to chaff you, you could declare a charge with the unit that is chaffed and try to blow the enemy away (either killing them all or a Panic). Succeed, and you're allowed to redirect (but not shoot again). Voila, a way to make short range shooting REALLY good and useful.

    PS. There is nothing that is more important or less so in a shooting weapon in the game. Cannons and Stone Throwers would be terrible if they only had 6" to 12" of range. Similarly, a unit with 96" of range that was Shots 1, always hit on 6+ would be useless. There's no one part of a shooting weapon's profile that ISN'T important. The most important point of using shooting weapons is, a) knowing their limitations; and b) target selection on the players' part.

    armazingerz wrote:

    Besides, it would be a serious and unnecesary distancing from the former game, game why the most of us get in 9th. Everything from 8th is easily recognizable in the 2020 slim books, that's one thing me and my friends definitively like. If they start to make drastic changes I think many people will stick to 8th, what an unnecesary risk.
    There was a group that tried to "keep legacy alive" and did nothing to distance themselves from legacy. They received a cease and desist letter from GW and had to drop it. The distancing that the project is doing is something that the lawyers that form the legal team quite literally told them HAD to be done for 9th Age to be on the up and up.

    Anyone who was going to stick to 8th already did so over the past 4 years. Also, 9th Age is doomed if it doesn't try to appeal to newer players. Creating a new, unique, and vibrant setting with its own armies is a part of that. Frankly, seeing how well done the Demon Legions book and the finalized version of Warriors came out, I'm excited for the future. Everyone who is working on the books wants to create an army that is unique, evocative, and still captures the feel of its spiritual ancestor.
  • GSbasic wrote:

    The Task Team is aiming to make Xbows a useful support element to a Close Combat centric army. So far the designs are very interesting and I’m excited for them to get play tested to see what happens.
    Sounds rather like a bucket full of special rules, comparable to the ID-making-flaming-things...

    tbh I'd rather just like a "normal" shooting weapon than something forced "cc-interacting-shooting"
  • KiRaHyuU wrote:

    da_griech wrote:

    Sounds rather like a bucket full of special rules,
    hahaha I wish we could have buckets of special rules :$
    If it was a PC game and you have the PC passively calculating the effects of special rules, it would be fine.

    But when you get on the tabletop with another person, buckets of special rules drag the game down to the point where it just isn't fun.