Undying Dynasties and The Vermin Swarm being just too much more powerfull then other armys in any phase.

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  • Doesn't every army community froth at the mouth most of the time? :D

    Frothing at the mouth is mostly indicative of madness, right? :P



    Aside: it's worth noting that I haven't seen any project statements in this thread; it is just community members arguing with each other.
    Writers and readers both should take care to distinguish between staff making personal comments and staff presenting project perspective/info.
    Being supportive & giving useful criticism aren't mutually exclusive.
    Are you supportive of the project? Do your posts reflect that?

    List repository and links HERE
    Basic beginners tactics HERE
  • Grouchy Badger wrote:

    tAcTiCaL bLuNdEr


    Sometimes lads, it cant be summed up so easily. If an entire community froths at the mouth then there may be a small issue.
    In this case it really can be summed up as tactical blunder. He faced an ETC opponent, got to deploy his entire army after his opponent, and still managed to put all of his valuable targets in magic range, and still (suppossedly) offered a 16" charge turn 1 to winged reapers, which I will point out isn't even possible in encircle.

    So sure, there might be an issue with UD, but this game doesn't illustrate that. It illustrates how an extremely skilled player can take advantage of mistakes their opponent made.

    You seem to have forgotten just how often this community froths at the mouth over absolute nonsense :P
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
  • Nicreap wrote:

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    tAcTiCaL bLuNdEr


    Sometimes lads, it cant be summed up so easily. If an entire community froths at the mouth then there may be a small issue.
    In this case it really can be summed up as tactical blunder. He faced an ETC opponent, got to deploy his entire army after his opponent, and still managed to put all of his valuable targets in magic range, and still (suppossedly) offered a 16" charge turn 1 to winged reapers, which I will point out isn't even possible in encircle.
    So sure, there might be an issue with UD, but this game doesn't illustrate that. It illustrates how an extremely skilled player can take advantage of mistakes their opponent made.

    You seem to have forgotten just how often this community froths at the mouth over absolute nonsense :P
    I have not forgotten. Honey Badger is an veteran player of almost 16 years, he is not some simpleton.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Nicreap wrote:

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    tAcTiCaL bLuNdEr


    Sometimes lads, it cant be summed up so easily. If an entire community froths at the mouth then there may be a small issue.
    In this case it really can be summed up as tactical blunder. He faced an ETC opponent, got to deploy his entire army after his opponent, and still managed to put all of his valuable targets in magic range, and still (suppossedly) offered a 16" charge turn 1 to winged reapers, which I will point out isn't even possible in encircle.So sure, there might be an issue with UD, but this game doesn't illustrate that. It illustrates how an extremely skilled player can take advantage of mistakes their opponent made.

    You seem to have forgotten just how often this community froths at the mouth over absolute nonsense :P
    I have not forgotten. Honey Badger is an veteran player of almost 16 years, he is not some simpleton.
    That doesn't mean he can't mess up deployment, and based off his description he made some rather big errors, which mattered far more than the army he faced.

    replace UD with any army with m6+SS and magic missiles and you would get a similar result. Make it M8+SS and it gets even worse because that 10" charge is then a 8" charge.

    For 10 dark acolytes to die to 2 magic missiles requires his opponent to be rolling out of the box consistently, you make pyro roll that out of the box and it will vaporize them too.
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
  • Nicreap wrote:

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Nicreap wrote:

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    tAcTiCaL bLuNdEr


    Sometimes lads, it cant be summed up so easily. If an entire community froths at the mouth then there may be a small issue.
    In this case it really can be summed up as tactical blunder. He faced an ETC opponent, got to deploy his entire army after his opponent, and still managed to put all of his valuable targets in magic range, and still (suppossedly) offered a 16" charge turn 1 to winged reapers, which I will point out isn't even possible in encircle.So sure, there might be an issue with UD, but this game doesn't illustrate that. It illustrates how an extremely skilled player can take advantage of mistakes their opponent made.
    You seem to have forgotten just how often this community froths at the mouth over absolute nonsense :P
    I have not forgotten. Honey Badger is an veteran player of almost 16 years, he is not some simpleton.
    That doesn't mean he can't mess up deployment, and based off his description he made some rather big errors, which mattered far more than the army he faced.
    replace UD with any army with m6+SS and magic missiles and you would get a similar result. Make it M8+SS and it gets even worse because that 10" charge is then a 8" charge.

    For 10 dark acolytes to die to 2 magic missiles requires his opponent to be rolling out of the box consistently, you make pyro roll that out of the box and it will vaporize them too.
    Its less the issue of his battle plan and more the issue that with a single magic phase in turn 1 his opponent managed to rofflestomp an army to nothing due to constant rerolls with the UD book.
    I am going to offend you. You are not going to like it. You will survive.

    Chaotic Neutral
    youtube.com/channel/UCJ9e5C1f26iuvhOA33rsFJQ

    Model Reviews with Twice the Brain Injuries!
  • Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Nicreap wrote:

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    Nicreap wrote:

    Grouchy Badger wrote:

    tAcTiCaL bLuNdEr


    Sometimes lads, it cant be summed up so easily. If an entire community froths at the mouth then there may be a small issue.
    In this case it really can be summed up as tactical blunder. He faced an ETC opponent, got to deploy his entire army after his opponent, and still managed to put all of his valuable targets in magic range, and still (suppossedly) offered a 16" charge turn 1 to winged reapers, which I will point out isn't even possible in encircle.So sure, there might be an issue with UD, but this game doesn't illustrate that. It illustrates how an extremely skilled player can take advantage of mistakes their opponent made.You seem to have forgotten just how often this community froths at the mouth over absolute nonsense :P
    I have not forgotten. Honey Badger is an veteran player of almost 16 years, he is not some simpleton.
    That doesn't mean he can't mess up deployment, and based off his description he made some rather big errors, which mattered far more than the army he faced.replace UD with any army with m6+SS and magic missiles and you would get a similar result. Make it M8+SS and it gets even worse because that 10" charge is then a 8" charge.

    For 10 dark acolytes to die to 2 magic missiles requires his opponent to be rolling out of the box consistently, you make pyro roll that out of the box and it will vaporize them too.
    Its less the issue of his battle plan and more the issue that with a single magic phase in turn 1 his opponent managed to rofflestomp an army to nothing due to constant rerolls with the UD book.
    But that had nothing to do with the rerolls. With only 2 magic missiles to kill his dark acolytes, the other 3 spells don't really matter (except in the case where he offered his opponent a charge with a major combat unit turn 1, and 4 reapers don't need help to wreck a hyrdra anyay).

    He could 4 dice each spell and his opponent could fail both, and with the same amazing rolls he seems to have had would still lost his dark acolytes. rerolling 2 dice has little to do with that side of it, and it is again, a direct byproduct of his choice to deploy to allow those things to happen. Dark acolytes are fast enough that they didn't need to be within range of the 24" divination missiles.
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
  • meh. Tactical deployment error in as much as I couldn’t predict having my support units being vaporized. I couldn’t stand to lose the hydra if both my dark acolytes would have lived because I could have flanked charged from both sides, but hey what do I know. Maybe I should have spread out and got picked apart a unit out of time. My DEs list is it’s movement. It’s counter-punchy. It doesn’t have caldron. It doesn’t have prince on peg vanguarding with corsairs. I don’t even have an oracle, but somehow I went 3-2. My other loss was to shooty HE list. That game could have easily done the other way though.

    My assassin needed to only do one would to his fire chicken, but didn’t. It changed the game as well as my dark acolyte champion failing to wound a bolt thrower with 3 attacks. That’s why we play the game. I’m ok about losing that one. It was a solid list and solid veteran player. My game against my friend Jurand wasn’t because it was the list. That’s it. Usually when he and I play it’s a game. I’ve tied him then the last 2 I’ve got curb bashed. He is a good player and is very good about finding the broken in lists. Some say that’s part of the game. I’m just not of that thought. I’d rather play my opponent than have the list beat me.
  • sixfthoneybadger wrote:

    meh. Tactical deployment error in as much as I couldn’t predict having my support units being vaporized
    No, in as much as after your opponent gave you complete knowledge of his deployment you put your hydras and support units into his threat range. You forfeited a major advantage your opponent handed you, and that is the ability to negate a lot of his first turn and counter deploy against him. Offering him a charge with no real risk top of turn 1 was a really big gamble you made.

    Had you kept out of his range turn 1, I think your list stands a decent chance against your opponent. It wouldn't be a walk in the park, but your list is able to concentrate force far better than your opponents can.

    Also, can you explain how in encircle your opponent had a 10" charge with winged reapers turn 1? Because that math just doesn't work.

    Edit: Your opponent's side of this is you vanguarded dark acolytes to within an 8" charge of reapers on the hill. he took the charge and you had to hold or lose the acolytes and panic most of your army, and then he overran past most of your army in front of a hydra, which you then charged into fully buffed reapers. That is a sequence that makes more sense. since again, 10" charge for reapers top of turn 1 on a hydra isn't possible.
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Nicreap ().

  • imperialengineer wrote:

    I believe the charge roll was a 10, not a 10" charge.
    what we are trying to point out is the fact that there is no scenario where you can place your hydra 16 inch away from reapers, and a roll of 10 means the reapers charged 16 inches.
    Since there cannot be a hydra 16 inches away from reapers turn 1 of the beginning players, it seems there is something wrong
  • Cam wrote:

    How can he kill 2 hydras and 10 acolytes in one magic phase and with only one dying in combat?
    Through the power of exaggeration. His opponent also couldn't legally charge that hydra turn 1 in encircle deployment.

    From his opponent's comments, he vanguarded his dark acolytes into a bad spot where they had to hold on an 8 on dice charge from winged reapers on a hill, his opponent got lucky with a big overrun so only a hydra could see the reapers, and then he charged a single hydra into magically buffed winged reapers. So that accounts for 5 acolytes and 1 hydra. I suspect a 2nd hydra died when the winged reapers got a free reform to charge turn 2. That now means he may have lost 5 acolytes in the first magic phase which is a much more realistic outcome for the range and spells his opponent could have access to.
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
  • Phosphorus wrote:

    well, at least data shows that UD and Vs are at the top tournie armies....so "our"gut feelings can be trusted (somewhat ) ^^
    what sub forum was the data report published in? Can't seem to find it.
    “You can never know everything, and part of what you know is always wrong. Perhaps even the most important part. A portion of wisdom lies in knowing that. A portion of courage lies in going on anyways.” -Lan Mandragoran, EotW


    Dovie’andi se tovya sagain.
  • While VS have been allocated Tier 1 status, I think we can agree that the vast majority of posts in the forum are targeted at the VPD “Net List”. As such, I would hope that the points adjustments are targeted at internal balance as much or more than external balance. Thereby fixing both issues.

    For example, I would hope that we would see points reductions for Vermin Guard additional models. 35xVG are 600pts with command which seems high though their occasional role as Lightening Rod caddy’s suggest the initial 20x Rats price should not drop.
    "The combination of lemon and habenero peppers was confusing to me. I will pay for this tomorrow i think." - Rosanjin Scholar, Iron Chef