Point reduction for Warriors?

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  • Point reduction for Warriors?

    I've noticed that no one takes warriors any more.

    I can't make a list I'm happy with 0 the closest is 21 with halberds and no other upgrades for 600+ points.....................

    As soon as you start marking them it's an 800-900pt unit.

    They're just NOT worth it - even with Zealots banner.

    I've been reading for a long time that there are some point reductions to warriors coming. When?
  • Ok - after reviewing the ETC lists I can see the Warriors being used as points denial in a 600pt block in the lists that play for a 10-10 draw - ie: the blocker armies...
    Fairly uninspiring stuff!

    So of the two core troop options (discounting fallen completely as a non-choice, as well as spending overs to achieve the same goal with 8+ special troops), you're saying that because 26 armies contained warriors that they are a success and require no further improvement? The success of warriors is therefore measured by being slightly less bad than barbarians, fallen or 8 strong dogs and mounted barbarians.

    When are we going to receive the points reduction for core warriors?
  • jimbo81 wrote:

    Ok - after reviewing the ETC lists I can see the Warriors being used as points denial in a 600pt block in the lists that play for a 10-10 draw - ie: the blocker armies...
    Fairly uninspiring stuff!

    So of the two core troop options (discounting fallen completely as a non-choice, as well as spending overs to achieve the same goal with 8+ special troops), you're saying that because 26 armies contained warriors that they are a success and require no further improvement? The success of warriors is therefore measured by being slightly less bad than barbarians, fallen or 8 strong dogs and mounted barbarians.

    When are we going to receive the points reduction for core warriors?
    What type of performance are you trying to achieve with your warriors? Currently, playing against warrior blocks is some what challenging since they sit and wait/distract/threaten on one side while 2000 points of cowboys/monsters come from the other side.

    They are not a push over unit, and require a pretty big hammer to kill off in a round of combat.

    I do not think halberds are optimal for warriors unless marked envy for swiftstride+reroll 1s to hit. I am finding gluttony+shields+razor standard to be a good grinding unit. Also playing adept with book of +2 to cast rolling alchemy and a level 4 of occultism gurantees your warriors are rolling around with a 1/2+ armor save or a 5+ ward.
  • The issue with looking for a points reduction for Warriors is that being core and at a high pick rate they have a fairly direct impact on external balance. As far as I know WDG are not materially externally underpowered so the argument for a points reduction is a difficult one.

    One interesting counterpoint to this could be around vanilla / weapon options / marks where there may be a case for reduction in base cost with subsequent balance back in options to adjust the pick rate amongst options.

    I’m not saying anywhere that a points reduction is off the cards, just that it’s not an easy puzzle to get right.
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  • Somewhen between after ETC and before end of the year there will be a balance patch for all armies. The preparations take time, but are already running.

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  • gluttony+shields+razor standard is a combo I like except that razor standard is now one use only. If I'm spending 6-900pts for a unit, I kind of want more than one combat round.......

    "+2 to cast rolling alchemy and a level 4 of occultism gurantees your warriors are rolling around with a 1/2+ armor save or a 5+ ward."

    So adding a 600pt wizard lord and maybe getting the spell off makes Warriors viable.

    I want Warriors to be a main battle line unit that you take 2-3 of in each army, a unit that opponents fear that are difficult to shift. I see them as hyper-expensive points bricks that are (very) easily avoided. I cannot justify taking them - you pretty much get 2:1 barbarians who have st6 (great weapons). I hate how you're pretty much forced to take spiked shield because of the costs involved.
  • jimbo81 wrote:

    Just_Flo wrote:

    Somewhen between after ETC and before end of the year there will be a balance patch for all armies. The preparations take time, but are already running.
    Excellent. Thank you.
    Just to be clear, so there's no misunderstanding/false expectations.

    What Flo just said was the timing for the balance patch.
    That doesn't mean that Warriors will drop in price.
    They might not change.
    They might even get more expensive.
    It all depends on what the data tells us.
  • jimbo81 wrote:

    gluttony+shields+razor standard is a combo I like except that razor standard is now one use only. If I'm spending 6-900pts for a unit, I kind of want more than one combat round.......

    "+2 to cast rolling alchemy and a level 4 of occultism gurantees your warriors are rolling around with a 1/2+ armor save or a 5+ ward."

    So adding a 600pt wizard lord and maybe getting the spell off makes Warriors viable.

    I want Warriors to be a main battle line unit that you take 2-3 of in each army, a unit that opponents fear that are difficult to shift. I see them as hyper-expensive points bricks that are (very) easily avoided. I cannot justify taking them - you pretty much get 2:1 barbarians who have st6 (great weapons). I hate how you're pretty much forced to take spiked shield because of the costs involved.
    Plenty of units are scared of fighting chaos warriors, that is why they are always avoided by the things that get demolished by them. To get the most out of the warrior unit you have to build a list that makes the chaos warriors difficult to avoid. The same issue is present in all armies that have a big scarry infantry block. No one wants to fight the big scary infantry block unless you have something even stronger. Making warriors cheaper does not solve that problem.
  • sam585 wrote:

    jimbo81 wrote:

    gluttony+shields+razor standard is a combo I like except that razor standard is now one use only. If I'm spending 6-900pts for a unit, I kind of want more than one combat round.......

    "+2 to cast rolling alchemy and a level 4 of occultism gurantees your warriors are rolling around with a 1/2+ armor save or a 5+ ward."

    So adding a 600pt wizard lord and maybe getting the spell off makes Warriors viable.

    I want Warriors to be a main battle line unit that you take 2-3 of in each army, a unit that opponents fear that are difficult to shift. I see them as hyper-expensive points bricks that are (very) easily avoided. I cannot justify taking them - you pretty much get 2:1 barbarians who have st6 (great weapons). I hate how you're pretty much forced to take spiked shield because of the costs involved.
    Plenty of units are scared of fighting chaos warriors, that is why they are always avoided by the things that get demolished by them. To get the most out of the warrior unit you have to build a list that makes the chaos warriors difficult to avoid. The same issue is present in all armies that have a big scarry infantry block. No one wants to fight the big scary infantry block unless you have something even stronger. Making warriors cheaper does not solve that problem.
    I think I might have some of the same issues as jimbo...but I'm also still trying to learn how the heck to play this army (with very little success so far). I agree that on paper the warriors are great. It just amazes me how many times I see my 800 point unit evaporate to enemy units. The problem as I see it is that I tie up a big portion of my total points in few, expensive units whereas the enemy army has more units and thus can easily dictate fights: redirecting my hard hitters, flanking, avoiding, etc. Also, when facing armies with shooting you lose a lot of combat potential when slogging across the board so when you actually reach combat, your units are not very capable of winning against the enemy's less expensive units.
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  • unmarked warriors with spike shield. Decent for the price

    marked warriors with weapon options. Too pricey for my tastes

    its the Hellmaw ruining things for people who want to play normally IMO. Without hellmaw the slow options would be cheaper but must be priced as if theyre on your doorstep turn 1 due to silly teleporter
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  • In warrior book there propably is no core tax any more. As it is not present in DL book.
    Perhaps the point values are a little bit off, but it is difficult to compare a unit that is fearless plus may reroll break tests to normal units, that need a BSB for the rerolls. Also the spiked shield that is totally strong against most other core units with St. 3-4 at most.
    Such things cost points and don´t come for free. If anything the warriors seem to be cheap for their package of special rules and stats.
  • jimbo81 wrote:

    gluttony+shields+razor standard is a combo I like except that razor standard is now one use only. If I'm spending 6-900pts for a unit, I kind of want more than one combat round.......
    It's unclear from your post, but razor standard doesn't last for one round of combat. It lasts until the current combat ends. So if you are killing your opponent completely in one round of combat you might be better off saving the rending banner for a fight you expect to last multiple rounds, or become a multiple unit engagement (extending the time you are in combat).
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  • Theyd be killer in am army with any "pull" factor. They just get left behind the rest of the army presently, which isnt that bad with vanilla cheaper version as they can safely bunker a mage or slowly slog to sit ona token but 899 point marked version with weapon option and magic banner etc isnt too viable with what is usually a fast army, unless youre playing silly portal minigame that i have absolutely no interest in....
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    Pics of my ever expanding warriors army

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  • WastelandWarrior wrote:

    its the Hellmaw ruining things for people who want to play normally IMO. Without hellmaw the slow options would be cheaper but must be priced as if theyre on your doorstep turn 1 due to silly teleporter
    I don't think this is true in either diretion.
    Removing hellmaws wouldn't result in significantly different warrior prices.
    Warrior lists without hellmaw can still contain marked warriors and do well (and do so because the warriors have contributed).
    People want t9a/RT to simultaneously square, triangle, and icosagon the circle, whilst vehemently attacking it if there are any corners.

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  • I just hate the hellmaw and find it hard to get the warriors involved in most games as the fast stuff gets there first and i dont fancy waiting through two extra turns of magic and shooting for a combo with the footsloggers. Also take all my comments in the context of regular person model pusher dice roller person. Not top level lifetime career in crushing hobby dreams person ;)
    Take a look at my painted army so far. Feel free to share a pic of yours!

    Pics of my ever expanding warriors army

    WastelandWarrior Painting League 2018

    WastelandWarrior Painting League 2019