T9A and future technology

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  • Very impressive! I like these simple solutions that help people to make things. I actually found a free to print version of that pillar

    I plan to do something like that in the final step. Stamp texture on with alphas.

    Any image can be turned into a height map, I use Materialize. That is the same process as shown above. I think that in Blender it has to be done pulling at an 90 degrees angle for constant results. I have been training a lot in Blender lately on a project for the Avras campaign. Closing in on a final version for my part of the job. Once it is done I will finish the KG house and turn it into an STL file.

    It sure looks a lot easier than my initial trials at stamp making. I must add an edge and resolution is a real problem. I have seen stamping on an image done in Blender and must check that out before I move on with that project. Watching videos and learning is what I do haf the time. Learning the lingo to find answers sure helps.

    Loving this thread so far, so much to learn.
  • Yesterday evening or rather at night I was going through some images @Karak Norn Clansman has collected and remembered how I got started with the Kegiz Gavem project. I wanted to make loads of small assets for training purposes.
    Hint and tip: if you want training, homebrew is full of fresh and interesting ideas. Studying a new take on a race with a cultural reference to take into account is a great way to get material to work on, especially if there is artwork as well.

    So I thought, how about a quick one, an hour at most, see how far I get. Well, this far:



    Made after the artwork by Matthew Klaas de Witte


    KNC did a lot of work in the art community which yielded amazing results.

    It was a strange experience, of late I have been very busy hard surface modeling, but very different from how I started. I only noticed yesterday how different. So let me show you a sneak peak of the Avras project:



    This will be a digital gaming asset, so the aim is as low poly as it gets. To do that you get these fan patterns where you link many verts to a single one. This way you could contain very complex geometry in a single face or quickly integrate it in your low poly. I start by adding lots of cuts and then dissolve them down to the minimum needed. For example the pillar has no edges in the middle where the lower pillar ends in a lot of detail. And the square pillar has limited detail where the round one has a lot of detail.
    I should have used an uneven number on the pillar to save work and mirror this. Does not work on a round one, but if you only need half of a round object, go with uneven. Always learning by doing.

    The helmet has a very different process, it starts with a basic shape, the goal is to keep everything in 4 sided faces. This is because of the last step in the hard surface modeling stage where you use subdivision with Catmull-Clark to smooth and get hard edges where you define them. For these hard edges you need a square ongoing geometry with as few triangles as you can possibly manage. This makes it a lot easier to use edge loops and define your hard edges or manipulate how your geometry reacts to the subdivision. You have a great amount of control here.



    The image above shows the mesh in yellow before and the black mess after subdivision (turn off preview while working and just use to check). So while basically the same I found myself working on fanning the small half disc into the cylinder of the helmet. That was one of those moments where I was going: Um, better not do that and let it be. The fan just shifts the rows for edge loops by one. Catmull-Clarck can and will handle it for you. And there is no need to have a clean mesh anyhow, when done with the subdivision; you do a retopology to get a normal and workable amount of verts again.

    Wanted to share this to show that what you are modeling for defines how you work, even if it is the same techniques used. That is what frustrated me a lot early on in many of the tutorials I watched, very specific and “must do this” videos while in reality you should just train your modeling skills. Make stuff and improve your technique, make simple contained assets. There are many shortcuts with software, there are many roads to success, just make things to find small problems to solve, which is how you get better at it.
    Learn the basics to get a good understanding of what you want and what you need. Then make more things and look for plugins to make your processes much faster. On the helmet I used Mesh: Looptools to turn the square geometry into something more round. This only worked because I could very specifically look for a solution. Sometimes you get lucky, this is a nice plugin.

    After I finish a few updates on the helmet I will sculpt a bit on the horns (organic versus dwarf made).

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Little Joe ().

  • Little Joe wrote:

    Very impressive! I like these simple solutions that help people to make things. I actually found a free to print version of that pillar

    I plan to do something like that in the final step. Stamp texture on with alphas.

    Any image can be turned into a height map, I use Materialize. That is the same process as shown above. I think that in Blender it has to be done pulling at an 90 degrees angle for constant results. I have been training a lot in Blender lately on a project for the Avras campaign. Closing in on a final version for my part of the job. Once it is done I will finish the KG house and turn it into an STL file.

    It sure looks a lot easier than my initial trials at stamp making. I must add an edge and resolution is a real problem. I have seen stamping on an image done in Blender and must check that out before I move on with that project. Watching videos and learning is what I do haf the time. Learning the lingo to find answers sure helps.

    Loving this thread so far, so much to learn.
    I started doing Blender Tutorials, but just couldn't find the time to get through enough of them, so have resorted to quick and dirty haha. I hope to get back to it, and make more custom detailed models... but I am finding you can get quite a bit accomplished with simple tools like that 2D extruder and TinkerCAD.

    One of my main problems now is just getting consistent prints. So many things can go wrong and each print seems to require a set of custom settings. And I have had to replace several components already as well as take it apart a half dozen times to clear blockages in the extruder. Currently asI try and print larger things, like buildings, I get visible layers in vertical surfaces, so much trial and error to figure things out, looks like I have to try and tighten the belts next...
    Keeper of the Zoo
    Images of Ma Stuff
    My Warriors of Ind/Sagarikadesha Painting blog

    In Northern CA? Give me a buzz or visit our FB Group: Norcal 9th Age
  • Frumious wrote:

    Those look great! What do you mean by digital gaming asset?
    A 3D model for computer gaming.

    Already many players use Universal Battle 2 to play for fun or train for big tournaments (internationally!). We are an ocean apart but can play a game right now if we wanted to. UB2 is great, some lament the top view, but in my opinion it is atmospheric and fitting for the game. Some would prefer to play full 3D, it is already a thing for roleplaying in Tabletop Simulator. We even have a supporting company with Tabletop Playground that offers a similar environment in beta.
    While digital will not replace a nice meet up, chat, beer and a game, it has many advantages. For a project like T9A where people from all over the globe work together, playing games together will strengthen social bonds beyond tournaments. So it is only logical to have different digital options to play as well. I know that it works because you can see it with those that play roleplaying games.

    Everything made for digital games can be 3D printed right away, it must be 2 manifold (each edge has only 2 faces and the mesh is closed) and the assets are in tris. So at the core it is a very similar process, and since I like terrain building most, I am interested to learn and see how it all works. Well I say all, but prefer my little corner, so supporting a team effort is great. Everything I add is CCO open source, which is all I care about in that context.

    Frumious wrote:

    I started doing Blender Tutorials, but just couldn't find the time to get through enough of them, so have resorted to quick and dirty haha. I hope to get back to it, and make more custom detailed models... but I am finding you can get quite a bit accomplished with simple tools like that 2D extruder and TinkerCAD.
    One of my main problems now is just getting consistent prints. So many things can go wrong and each print seems to require a set of custom settings. And I have had to replace several components already as well as take it apart a half dozen times to clear blockages in the extruder. Currently asI try and print larger things, like buildings, I get visible layers in vertical surfaces, so much trial and error to figure things out, looks like I have to try and tighten the belts next...
    You pick the tool for the job, if fast and easy to use tools do what you want, use them. The world keeps changing and software like that will only improve in the future when the pool of potential users grows.
    I enjoy Blender as a puzzle machine, technical problems like "how do I make that" intrigue me. And there is no mess or half finished projects clogging up my paint desk. Supporting a homebrew project is an amazing way to train skills and gives your efforts focus.

    3D printing is a hobby on it's own, learning Blender costs so much time to me that I do not have the time or patience as well to learn it, same as above though. Just a matter of time until the technology improves for the average user with better software. The hardware is developing at a snails pace if you ask me. While China makes 3D printing available to many I blame their copy paste production attitude for that. Companies are afraid to invest and that is a bad thing, many seem to be content to wait for patents to run out.

    From my point of view no digital 3D model is a waste of time because some day it will be printable anyhow. I do aim to stay within some limits, especially with terrain. I build as if making actual wargaming terrain, so the same heroic scale doors and look we all know and use. Digital just makes details a lot easier.

    When I start 3D printing I will have so many questions to bomb you all with. :D


    EDIT: For those that remember, when Rackham revolutionized miniature painting by having professionals painting their miniatures, wargaming changed. All the hobbyists now learning about color theory, painting skills and so on do it because that is where change started. And it came as a revolution.
    In my opinion T9A is a similar revolution, open miniature or open source games are not new. But we need artists that like to make amazing artwork, writers, game designers and testers with statistics and I think 3D digital as well. It is the only project where many new skills flow into and enrich our hobby experience, we are at the brink of another revolution and T9A is at the core of it. Fun times!

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Little Joe ().

  • joel127 wrote:

    Wow, this is really inspiring: reddit.com/r/PrintedMinis/
    Some of the FDM prints look way better than I remember that technology being. Were there any recent big changes in how those printers are used?

    Interesting, I wonder where else is the internet focusing on 3D printed miniatures?

    EDIT: looks cool, but I did not understand anything of it.
  • Thats cool about your gaming assets, would my WDG monlothith be useful for your project? I believe it has a fairly low polycount as its entirly made in tinkerCAD

    Have you seen the open forge project?

    patreon.com/masterworktools

    Some of those models may be useful as well. That's a Patreon page for support, but all the models are free/ open sourced and released on thingiverse.


    Little Joe wrote:

    joel127 wrote:

    Wow, this is really inspiring: reddit.com/r/PrintedMinis/
    Some of the FDM prints look way better than I remember that technology being. Were there any recent big changes in how those printers are used?
    Interesting, I wonder where else is the internet focusing on 3D printed miniatures?

    EDIT: looks cool, but I did not understand anything of it.

    I don't think there is anything new. Just takes time and tinkering to get a good print, sometimes even getting into editing the flow rate of your extruders.

    That contouring is cool, I believe it just involves reprogramming your slicer to move the build plate up and down (usually just goes up with each layer). I think there are using the nozzel to melt the layers too... A similar effect can be made with blasting it with a heat gun though, if your careful ;-).

    This thread does want me to revitalize my idea of putting together an entirely 3D printed 9th age Demon armor from free models...
    Keeper of the Zoo
    Images of Ma Stuff
    My Warriors of Ind/Sagarikadesha Painting blog

    In Northern CA? Give me a buzz or visit our FB Group: Norcal 9th Age

    The post was edited 1 time, last by Frumious ().

  • That monolith would be very interesting, straight from the artwork, makes a great ruins or building. Making it game ready is quite easy really, just needs an UV map, obj format and it is good to go. @piteglio gets them painted and ready for use.
    Even adding the tentacles is not that hard, you can render part of a mesh smooth. I would love to take a look at the file, I think you can learn a lot from looking at work from others. I can share some of my files if you want.


    I have seen the open forge project, I think that it is great for making your own dungeons, castles and things to 3D print. Remixes are allowed, that is awesome.
    Here is the issue, it takes me more time to add the proper attribution to each image than just making say a column myself. It is something I too struggle with, I want it to be open source but will most likely forego the attribution part. It creates more problems than it does good.
    There are other restrictions with the licences each object may have. Right now I document every asset I take from the internet, it is impossible to check if some open source is really open source. Some of the freezes in the open forge collections for example are depictions or scans from other artwork, you can't use that, putting it on Thingiverse is already not that legal even with attribution. You need a licence from whomever owns the artwork.
    @Frumious you too used the attribution licence, I would love to hear your thoughts on it?

    This one I really like. This is something I would use loads of if I had a 3D printer.

    Regarding artwork, there is a great use for it, for example some projects on Sketchfab, where you can get a very detailed look at scans. I used a scan from the Glasgow museum of an Ethiopian shield, to make sure my shield was perfectly angled:



    Very useful, but within limits due to licences.
    Idaho virtualization laboratory is another great one with many detailed scans of skeletons. Using these instead of images is just so much easier for hard surface modelling and adding armatures (I think, not sure since I have not done that yet). The skeletons are way too high poly, but you can take them apart for every bone you want a look at.


    Frumious wrote:

    This thread does want me to revitalize my idea of putting together an entirely 3D printed 9th age Demon armor from free models...
    Go for it! :thumbsup:

    The post was edited 2 times, last by Little Joe ().

  • joel127 wrote:

    Wow, this is really inspiring: reddit.com/r/PrintedMinis/
    Yeah that's a good Reddit sub, I visit it daily and occasionally post my minis there.

    Little Joe wrote:

    joel127 wrote:

    Wow, this is really inspiring: reddit.com/r/PrintedMinis/
    Some of the FDM prints look way better than I remember that technology being. Were there any recent big changes in how those printers are used?
    Interesting, I wonder where else is the internet focusing on 3D printed miniatures?

    EDIT: looks cool, but I did not understand anything of it.
    Not many more. There is a Facebook page and the same Reddit site has a discord group.

    Personally I think this site is ideal for that exchange.
  • Bugman wrote:

    I so need a 3D resin printer.....
    You need more dwarves? :D


    kelvenmore wrote:

    Bugman wrote:

    I so need a 3D resin printer.....
    There is none on sale for $250.Look for Uncle Jesse on YouTube he has $50 coupon code that takes it down to $200
    I think my first printer will be FDM, do such discount work internationally? Europe has a hefty price hike on tech products in general, such is life. :D
    I still want to properly learn to design digital objects first.

    Why not show some test prints in your thread to give us something to vote on?
  • kelvenmore wrote:

    Bugman wrote:

    I so need a 3D resin printer.....
    There is none on sale for $250.Look for Uncle Jesse on YouTube he has $50 coupon code that takes it down to $200
    But that’s the spark maker which isn’t as great as it sounds or looks, has had a pretty ropey rollout too.

    Anycubic photon is regraded as one of the best. Vs cost at present, £285 or £351 for the slightly newer version :(


    Little Joe wrote:

    Bugman wrote:

    I so need a 3D resin printer.....
    You need more dwarves? :D

    Always, but in 10mm. And scenery. Problem is that I can buy a 10mm army cheaper then a printer....
    http://www.bugmansbrewery.com - The largest most informative Fantasy Dwarf website on the net, covering every dwarfers needs from forum to tactics, balls to ships!

    Advisory Board

    Head of Public Relations

    Bugmans Brewery Owner (Dwarven Holds)

  • Bugman wrote:

    Always, but in 10mm. And scenery. Problem is that I can buy a 10mm army cheaper then a printer....

    How is the market for 10mm dwarven scenery? At that scale I would want an ant farm style hold. :D

    I think that 3D printing is not really about cheap. It is about opportunities and having a tool that can make things happen. I would print loads of scenery bits and bases, not miniatures to begin with. All the small stuff that in quantity is not cheap.
  • Little Joe wrote:

    Bugman wrote:

    I so need a 3D resin printer.....
    You need more dwarves? :D

    kelvenmore wrote:

    Bugman wrote:

    I so need a 3D resin printer.....
    There is none on sale for $250.Look for Uncle Jesse on YouTube he has $50 coupon code that takes it down to $200
    I think my first printer will be FDM, do such discount work internationally? Europe has a hefty price hike on tech products in general, such is life. :D I still want to properly learn to design digital objects first.

    Why not show some test prints in your thread to give us something to vote on?
    Everyone needs more dwarfs.

    That code was specific to that printer. But FDMs have gotten cheap. The ender three is like $160USD-$200USD. If you're printing scenery the FDM is they way to go. They have substantially larger build volume. But they are more difficult to use than DLP/SLA printers.

    Bugman wrote:

    kelvenmore wrote:

    Bugman wrote:

    I so need a 3D resin printer.....
    There is none on sale for $250.Look for Uncle Jesse on YouTube he has $50 coupon code that takes it down to $200
    Butthat’s the spark maker which isn’t as great as it sounds or looks, has had a pretty ropey rollout too.


    Anycubic photon is regraded as one of the best. Vs cost at present, £285 or £351 for the slightly newer version :(


    Little Joe wrote:

    Bugman wrote:

    I so need a 3D resin printer......

    They are different technologies. One is an SLA and the other is a DLP. Both produce high quality prints but the DLP uses an LCD screen and the SLA uses a laser.
    The photon is a DLP. I have a photon and can strongly record one.
  • Little Joe wrote:

    Regarding artwork, there is a great use for it, for example some projects on Sketchfab, where you can get a very detailed look at scans. I used a scan from the Glasgow museum of an Ethiopian shield, to make sure my shield was perfectly angled:
    Very useful, but within limits due to licences.
    Idaho virtualization laboratory is another great one with many detailed scans of skeletons. Using these instead of images is just so much easier for hard surface modelling and adding armatures (I think, not sure since I have not done that yet). The skeletons are way too high poly, but you can take them apart for every bone you want a look at.
    Thanks ! Great Resources.

    Little Joe wrote:


    @Frumious you too used the attribution licence, I would love to hear your thoughts on it?
    This one I really like. This is something I would use loads of if I had a 3D printer.

    I don' think I thought about it too much. Mainly was thinking since it's based on someone else artwork I should have a mechanism for people to figure that at, and it also might bring more eyeballs onto the 9th age project in general.

    Do you think its better to use the "share alike" license?

    I do like that Agave model! I need to get more high quality jungle terrain for my boards.... wish I had some more temple things. Probably could find some aztec historical models to modify though.

    Little Joe wrote:


    I have seen the open forge project, I think that it is great for making your own dungeons, castles and things to 3D print. Remixes are allowed, that is awesome.
    Here is the issue, it takes me more time to add the proper attribution to each image than just making say a column myself. It is something I too struggle with, I want it to be open source but will most likely forego the attribution part. It creates more problems than it does good.
    There are other restrictions with the licences each object may have. Right now I document every asset I take from the internet, it is impossible to check if some open source is really open source. Some of the freezes in the open forge collections for example are depictions or scans from other artwork, you can't use that, putting it on Thingiverse is already not that legal even with attribution. You need a licence from whomever owns the artwork.

    Yeah the attributions is a pain, and I have downloaded a lot of models that I have tweeked and need to rigorously go back and record all the attributions before/if I try and distribute any of those. I'm not even how sure you would set the attributions for your project. Maybe just one page listing all the model sources? You would just need to right each one down as you used it. deginetly agree it easier to go simple things on your own. But also you can save a lot of time. My friend wanted at Mosntrous Rat Model, and I was able to quickly work one up from a model someone scanned from Fallout 4 of a mole rat. Comboed with a Skaven tower someone else did, and a few modifications of my own. Those were both under attribution so that sort of use is allowed (and welcomed or they would have use a differnt license). It save countless hours, particularly as I'm not good at sculpting yet.

    Little Joe wrote:

    That monolith would be very interesting, straight from the artwork, makes a great ruins or building. Making it game ready is quite easy really, just needs an UV map, obj format and it is good to go. @piteglio gets them painted and ready for use.Even adding the tentacles is not that hard, you can render part of a mesh smooth. I would love to take a look at the file, I think you can learn a lot from looking at work from others. I can share some of my files if you want.
    Cool! More then happy to share. I responded to your PM. I had a plan to print the tentacles, basically printing them straight and using hot water to bent them post . The monolith itself would just need circular voids added to slot them into. might still do that eventually, personally not a huge tentacle fan though, seems more specific to some dark gods then others.

    I do have a couple printed ruins varients. I'll have to track down some pics. Basically I took 7 of them and replaced the eye with a symbol from each god, then added a skull and chaos star in the middle, kind of like stone henge. The monloths were all small unit filler misprints, and I further "weathered/ruined" some . They are on bases and boundary board like a forest so people can shift them around for gaming. But the ring of 7 with the dark god symbols may look cool for your project as well.
    Keeper of the Zoo
    Images of Ma Stuff
    My Warriors of Ind/Sagarikadesha Painting blog

    In Northern CA? Give me a buzz or visit our FB Group: Norcal 9th Age